Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi JH,

Yes. That is, some use it all the time and some never use it. The two groups often argue with one another.

I think the argument has been going on for around a century now!

Certainly use it when leaving it out could lead to ambiguity and possible misinterpretation and you can't (or don't want to) change the list order. In the case you mention, that isn't an issue.

I, for the past year or so, have always used it (esp. in lists). Personally, I find it to be quite unambiguous.

Note, though, that sometimes an Oxford comma (aka 'serial comma') can cause ambiguity.

Oh yes, I forgot its informal name.

Whichever you prefer, (and it comes down to preference unless you have to follow a style guide), careful parsing of the resulting list is a must.

"Parsing" - that's a new word for me!

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi Oggy,

Are those soloists important to you?

How visible do you want those soloists to be?

If the names have no significance to you, do you need them?

Thanks for considering the depth of my questions.

I think, it may be a case of me jumping ship and also compromising with respect to ARTIST/SOLOIST. Maybe I should only place the SOLOIST in the SOLOIST and ARTIST tag if the artist consists of a single person. For instance, in Dmitri Shostakovich's '24 Preludes And Fugues (Op.87)':

ARTIST = Keith Jarrett; Dmitri Shostakovich

SOLOIST = Keith Jarrett

But where the ARTIST is a collection of musicians who do not have an ensemble name (eg. not 'London Woodwind Chamber', but John Smith, David Jones, Jane Black), then they should only appear in the SOLOIST field. For instance, in Olivier Messiaen's 'Quartet For The End Of Time':

ARTIST = Olivier Messiaen

SOLOIST = William Pleeth; Gervase De Peyer; Erich Gruenberg; Michel Béroff

I am not familiar with any of the latter four, however, I would still like to have them documented somewhere within the FLACs tagging records. No, they are not essential data, but I only want to have to make this ripping job once, and not have to come back to it again at a later date should I feel certain information is lacking. And if it were a matter of relocating the data, then the task would be that of simply copy&pasting!

Finally, for an ORCHESTRA, then (because it has an ensemble name) I am inclined to use, in the case of (say) Johannes Brahms's 'Symphony No.2 in D Major':

ARTIST = Johannes Brahms; Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra

ORCHESTRA = Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra

I don't think that this would make to bad a scheme. Again, with CLASSICAL, it's all about exceptions!

Paul

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I only want to have to make this ripping job once

You only need to rip once. You can add and/or edit tags any time afterward.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Oggy,

I know you were being serious about order, but not knowing any of those artists it is incredibly difficult to come up with a rule. Alphabetical Christian name? Alphabetical surname?

I was thinking alphabetic-by-surname. This would keep everything in line with all of my previous rips (I mean with respect to ARTIST SORT, CONDUCTOR SORT, ALBUMARTIST SORT).

But, to delve a little deeper into the question, and from the perspective of 'dBpa', does it make any difference as to how Illustrate, or one's playback device (or s/w) handles/processes this data? I mean, would the following variants still be handled in the same way, please?:

SOLOIST = William Pleeth; Gervase De Peyer; Erich Gruenberg; Michel Béroff

SOLOIST = Michel Béroff; Erich Gruenberg; Gervase De Peyer; William Pleeth

Many thanks.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

You only need to rip once. You can add and/or edit tags any time afterward.

Yes, thanks; you are correct, of course.

But even the thought of having to re-edit my entire classicals (say) 2 years down the line is already quite distressing!

[schmidj]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi again,

Hi John,


OK, I think I see what you are doing now. And so you might have something that looks like:

ALBUM = 'Beethoven - Symphony No. 5'

Have you placed the composer in the album titles of ALL your genres? Or just in classical? (where such exceptions seem to be commonplace!).

Similar, I use a colon 'Beethoven: Symphony...'.

Generally only in Classical, occasionally in other genres when I feel the composer is important to me. Actually much of my non-classical files have no composer entered, in many cases it isn't even on the CD or what is there is the current publisher or owner of the copyright, not the original composer. For non-classical, if the on-line databases have composer info, I'll let it remain in the composer tag, but if the tag is empty, I don't research it. But the colon in the title addition is basically only for classical where I want to specifically know whose symphony no. 5 I'm listening to.

John

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Generally only in Classical, occasionally in other genres when I feel the composer is important to me. Actually much of my non-classical files have no composer entered, in many cases it isn't even on the CD or what is there is the current publisher or owner of the copyright, not the original composer. For non-classical, if the on-line databases have composer info, I'll let it remain in the composer tag, but if the tag is empty, I don't research it. But the colon in the title addition is basically only for classical where I want to specifically know whose symphony no. 5 I'm listening to.

John,

Perhaps we differ here in that I (seem to) spend (sometimes) hours researching missing (tag) data. Yes, it is very time-consuming and I would have ripped my entire CD collection months ago, had I not gone down this pedantic route. But, for the sake of completeness, I am always pleased when I have managed to tick all of the boxes.



Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Another SOLOISTS question!

I ripped a Steve Reich CD 'The Four Sections; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'.

Tracks 1-4 are with the LSO (so no problem) and I list this orch. in the ARTIST and ORCHESTRA fields.

But track 5 is with a group of musicians who do not have an actual ensemble-name:

In previous rips, where the musicians do not have an ensemble-name, I have listed them - individually - in SOLOISTS. However, there hare only been 1, 2, or maybe 3 members in total. Here, there are 11! I don't mind copy&pasting them in, however, is there an upper-limit for the amount of characters one can input into the SOLOISTS field, please? I know that with TRACK TITLE (using Garym's shared download of 'strings' etc) there is an upper-limit of circa 236.

Many thanks once again.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

... and even MORE members (in the unnamed ensemble) for Reich's 'Music For A Large Ensemble'!:

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

... and even MORE members (in the unnamed ensemble) for Reich's 'Music For A Large Ensemble'!

Your classical collection is going to look more like a database with audio than an audio library.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Your classical collection is going to look more like a database with audio than an audio library.

My JAZZ one already looks like the 'Grove Dictionary of'!

Do you like chips with your vinegar, sir?

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi,

I think it was John who said that he prefers to see the name of the COMPOSER at the start of the ALBUM TITLE? Anyway, now that I have ripped about 20 classicals, I have a keener eye for how (I think) things should look.

I have now placed the surname of the composer at the start of every album title. Actually, it is already there 50% of the time by default, and in many cases it is an official part of the album name anyway. And so, my new question relates to the usage of colon/semi-colon and illegal characters.

For Steve Reich's 'Early Works' album, I have tagged this (using EDIT ID) as:

ALBUM = Reich: Early Works

And this is how it appears in foobar (as you can see, it reads exactly as aforementioned):

Now, when I try to copy&paste the very same album title to the FOLDER LOCATION (parent-folder), obviously it does not permit a colon. When such an album title has, by default, a colon (I think the Keith Jarrett CD 'Shostakovich: 24 Preludes & Fugues' did), then 'dBpa' would rip the CD and name the album (as per viewed in foobar or EDIT ID) as (eg.) 'Shostakovich: 24 Preludes & Fugues'; no problem. But, for the parent folder, it would substitute the colon for a semi-colon so that it reads 'Shostakovich; 24 Preludes & Fugues' (because the colon is an illegal character).

Therefore, now that I have just added the composer's surname to the start of each album title, I have followed suit (with 'dBpa') and named the parent-folder of the afore-most album substituting a semi-colon:

ALBUM = Reich; Early Works

I hope I have made the correct decision here?! I was trying to follow the logic of 'dBpa'.

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi,

I think it was John who said that he prefers to see the name of the COMPOSER at the start of the ALBUM TITLE? Anyway, now that I have ripped about 20 classicals, I have a keener eye for how (I think) things should look.

I have now placed the surname of the composer at the start of every album title. Actually, it is already there 50% of the time by default, and in many cases it is an official part of the album name anyway. And so, my new question relates to the usage of colon/semi-colon and illegal characters.

For Steve Reich's 'Early Works' album, I have tagged this (using EDIT ID) as:

ALBUM = Reich: Early Works

And this is how it appears in foobar (as you can see, it reads exactly as aforementioned):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2054[/ATTACH]

Now, when I try to copy&paste the very same album title to the FOLDER LOCATION (parent-folder), obviously it does not permit a colon. When such an album title has, by default, a colon (I think the Keith Jarrett CD 'Shostakovich: 24 Preludes & Fugues' did), then 'dBpa' would rip the CD and name the album (as per viewed in foobar or EDIT ID) as (eg.) 'Shostakovich: 24 Preludes & Fugues'; no problem. But, for the parent folder, it would substitute the colon for a semi-colon so that it reads 'Shostakovich; 24 Preludes & Fugues' (because the colon is an illegal character).

Therefore, now that I have just added the composer's surname to the start of each album title, I have followed suit (with 'dBpa') and named the parent-folder of the afore-most album substituting a semi-colon:

ALBUM = Reich; Early Works

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2055[/ATTACH]

I hope I have made the correct decision here?! I was trying to follow the logic of 'dBpa'.

Paul

Although I confess to using colons, you would think that it can only a good idea and best practice to replace the illegal characters. Some folks have come unstuck by using the illegal characters, but I couldn't tell you what objected to their use.

So yes, use of the semi-colon is recommended.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Although I confess to using colons, you would think that it can only a good idea and best practice to replace the illegal characters. Some folks have come unstuck by using the illegal characters, but I couldn't tell you what objected to their use.

So yes, use of the semi-colon is recommended.

OK, cheers Oggy.

But now my question is, please, if you have an album such as (say) Steve Reich's:

'Octet; Music For A Large Ensemble; Violin Phase'

https://www.discogs.com/Steve-Reich-...release/285074

and, following suit with the (John's) legend of placing the composer's surname at the start of the ALBUM TITLE, the aforementioned would (in foobar), thus, look like:

Reich: Octet; Music For A Large Ensemble; Violin Phase

BUT!, in the PARENT-FOLDER of the album - because of the illegal characters (as previously discussed yesterday) - one has to substitute the colon with a semi-colon. Thus, the folder title appears like so:

And therefore the crux of my question is, that, the text for the parent-folder implies that the artist's name (ie. Reich) is actually a track!:

Reich; Octet; Music For A Large Ensemble; Violin Phase

In other words, that this CD has 4 tracks (the 1st one having the title 'Reich'!).

Hope you can make sense of this!

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi,

I am ripping a Ton Bruynel CD 'Looking Ears':

https://www.discogs.com/Ton-Bruyn%C3...release/336239

Track 6 features the harpsichordist: Annelie De Man

Because I have appended Von/Van in my other classicals as:

(SORT) Beethoven, Ludwig van

(SORT) Karajan, Herbert von

should I do the same with:

(SORT) Man, Annelie De

Many thanks,

Paul