Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

[Max Dread]

Hi all

I came across a CD with Pre-Emphasis last night, and I'm unsure what to do... As I understand it, there is no way to rip it in DBPA and have the rip process De-Emphasis the audio. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I have read that other rippers will do it - including iTunes - but I don't do Apple and would rather not install anything else if I can help it. So from what I've read, that leaves me with the option of De-Emphasing on playback.

1. When I look at the ripped tracks in Mp3tag, I cannot see a tag for Pre-Emphasis. Does DBPA usually add this tag by default? Is it there and I am missing it? Or did it not get written?

2. If it did not get written, how can I add that tag?

3. Once the tag is written, is this the dsp I need to use (and is it the most up to date) for playback in Foobar? If not, can anyone post a link to what I should use please?

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_deemph

4. My curiosity means I'd like to hear the audio with and without the De-Emphasis. So once I've got it sorted, what would be the best way of comparing?

Many thanks

Max

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Take a look at this thread, as it may help you: De-emphasis.

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

1. When I look at the ripped tracks in Mp3tag, I cannot see a tag for Pre-Emphasis. Does DBPA usually add this tag by default? Is it there and I am missing it? Or did it not get written?

2. If it did not get written, how can I add that tag?

Go to CDRipper Options >> Meta Data & ID Tag >> Write ID Tags

and tick Pre-Emphasis.

[Oggy]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Take a look at this thread, as it may help you: De-emphasis.

I remember that thread! I can confirm, that I installed iTunes, solely for ripping my CDs with pre-emph.

It wasn't my preferred method, but, was easy, and the inherent strength of the CDs comes through, and no audible glitches.

[Max Dread]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Great help guys - thanks!

mville - As soon as I read what you wrote in your second post I had a DOH! moment and remembered that setting. So I ticked it and it did the job as expected. I re-ripped the CD, and then chose a track to convert from FLAC to WAV. I could then compare the unaltered track with the one that had de-emphasis. I preferred the unaltered track to be honest! The other one sounded too lifeless and dull. I guess it's just a case of personal preference.

It leaves with some more questions though:

1. Could it be that the de-emphasis dsp I used (link above) is not as good as other de-emphasis effects? Do they differ or do they all result in the same audio?

2. Strangely, when I removed the de-emphasis dsp from the components folder, the tracks still have de-emphasis applied. That's got me scratching my head!!! I'm wondering whether Foobar maybe has a de-emphasiser built in as standard now? If not, how can the files still be being de-emphasised wit no dsp present? If presuming DBPA just adds the tag for audio players to read.... Or have I misunderstood?

Cheers

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Just to confirm, all you need to do is rip the CD in CDRipper and add the pre-emphasis flag. Then, in foobar2000, you add the foo_dsp_deemph component and in DSP Manager, add the RIAA CD deemphasis filter in the Available DSPs to the Active DSPs. Is this what you have done?

Out of interest, what version of dBpoweramp Music Converter are you running and what is the name of the pre-emphasis flag tag and it's value?

[Max Dread]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Hi mville

OK, so... I added the pre-emphasis flag in CDRipper as recommended. The flag it produced is simply titled Pre-Emphasis, and the value given "Yes". As a side note, I then ripped another CD which didn't have pre-emphasis (whilst keeping the option in Meta Data & ID Tag >> Write ID Tags ticked) and it did not write a tag for pre-emphasis. I wasn't sure whether that would be the case or whether it would write a tag with a value of No or zero, etc. I was just curious.

I'm running version 14.4.

In terms of what I did with the component: I downloaded the one from the link above (made by mudlord). I copied and pasted the .dll into the components folder in the FB directory. It shows in the "Installed components" window in FB preferences, although it is greyed out. I wasn't aware of needing to do anything in the DSP Manager window, so did nothing there. I also don't know what the RIAA CD deemphasis filter is or where to get it. Regardless of that, it would seem that de-emphasis was applied. The files certainly sounded obviously different to the same song when converted to WAV and played back in another player. But the weird thing was that when I removed the .dll from the components folder (again, just out of curiosity) the songs still had de-emphasis applied.

Hope that's all clear and please let me know if you need any more info. Huge thanks for helping me out

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Try the following:

1. Go to the foobar2000 homepage. Select components and scroll down to De-emphasis DSP/Postprocessor 0.1. Select it and on the next page, click download and save the foo_dsp_deemph.zip to your hard drive.

2. Remove the .dll you manually installed in the components folder, quit and restart foobar2000.

3. Go to foobar2000 >> Library menu >> Configure. Select Components in the left-hand side of the window. Click the install button in the right-hand side of the window, then navigate to and select the foo_dsp_deemph.zip downloaded in 1. You should then see the foo_dsp_deemph module appear in the Installed components window with instructions to apply. Click the Apply button and another window appears. Click OK to continue and foobar2000 restarts.

4. Go to foobar2000 >> Library menu >> Configure. Select Playback >> DSP Manager. In Available DSPs you should now see RIAA CD deemphasis filter and RIAA phono deemphasis filter. Select RIAA CD deemphasis filter and click the left arrow to move the DSP into the Active DSPs.

5. DONE.

[Max Dread]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Wow - thanks! Excellent instructions.

However... When I deselect the RIAA CD deemphasis filter in the DSP window, the tracks still have de-emphasis applied (to the same amount they have it applied even when there is no de-emphasis .dll installed at all). When I select/activate the RIAA CD deemphasis filter in the DSP window, even more de-emphasis is applied. So I now have three different levels:

1. No de-emphasis. This is only heard when playing the audio in a different player as a WAV (thus voiding the tag). I also get the exact same audio in Foobar if I remove the pre-emphasis tag - as one would expect.

2. Some de-emphasis. Playing back the tracks in FB gives some de-emphasis (so long as the files have the appropriate tag). This is the case even when there is no .dll copied into the components folder, and no dsp installed. Perhaps when I first installed it I left some kind of "residue" which sticks around even when I delete the .dll from the components folder???

3. MORE de-emphasis. When I install and activate the RIAA CD deemphasis filter, I can hear eve more de-emphasis. The cymbals become more or less non-existent!

Any other ideas?

Thanks for sticking with me on this.

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Either, you still have other de-emphasis components installed, somewhere. Check which components are installed:
foobar2000 >> Library menu >> Configure >> Components >> Installed Components

Or, you are applying other non-deemphasis EQ/DSP or ReplayGain/Preamp adjustments, when playing in foobar2000. Check your Active DSPs and ReplayGain:
foobar2000 >> Library menu >> Configure >> Playback

[Max Dread]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Either, you still have other de-emphasis components installed, somewhere. Check which components are installed:
foobar2000 >> Library menu >> Configure >> Components >> Installed Components

That's possible, and I did think I had a eureka when I remembered that as well as the components folder in the program files directory, there is also the "user-components" folder in Documents and Settings >> Application Data. But I've made sure there.s no de-emphasis components in both of these and still I am getting de-emphasis. And I've checked the installed components screen in preferences. Nothing there.

Or, you are applying other non-deemphasis EQ/DSP or ReplayGain/Preamp adjustments, when playing in foobar2000. Check your Active DSPs and ReplayGain: foobar2000 >> Library menu >> Configure >> Playback

No, I don't think that's the case unfortunately. The only thing I use along those lines is RG, but I've turned that off whilst investigating. And there are zero Active DSPs. On top of that, I have ripped the album twice - once with the pre-emphasis tag box ticked, and once with it unticked. When I playback the files WITHOUT the pre-emphasis tag in FB, they sound normal and exactly the same as the WAV versions.

So something somewhere is applying de-emphasis it would seem, I've just no idea what or how! It's very odd, and tbh quite a minor point as I have only come across two albums with PE. But I hate not getting to the bottom of stuff like this!!!!

Thanks for all the help.

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

On top of that, I have ripped the album twice - once with the pre-emphasis tag box ticked, and once with it unticked. When I playback the files WITHOUT the pre-emphasis tag in FB, they sound normal and exactly the same as the WAV versions.

Something is not right here. If this is a CD with pre-emphasis and you don't have the pre-emphasis tag, when you play it in foobar2000 (or anything else for that matter) it shouldn't sound normal. It's normally very bright with hiss/noise.

[Max Dread]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Well, it certainly has a lot more high end. But nothing that makes it unlistenable. In fact, I can't decide if I like it more with the high end. I can upload a short song if you're interested to hear it?

[mville]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

Well, it certainly has a lot more high end. But nothing that makes it unlistenable. In fact, I can't decide if I like it more with the high end. I can upload a short song if you're interested to hear it?

I take it this is how it sounds in the other player and not in foobar2000 (what is the other player?). If so, then that is what I'd expect, good. However, this is how it should sound in foobar2000 also, without any deemphasis components.

It certainly does look like you have a problem with your foobar200 setup. I would try asking in the foobar forums.

[Max Dread]

Re: Pre-Emphasis Newbie... What do I need to do?

The other player is Wavelab. It's an old version, which is why I converted the file to WAV to be played in there (FLAC is not supported). Yes, Wavelab plays back the most trebley version. And it is exactly the same as when playing the song in Foobar WITHOUT the PE tag.

So I agree - somehow the presence of the tag is making FB de-emphasise even though by all accounts there is no .dll or dsp installed. Very odd.

I'll head over to HA forums and ask there then. In the meantime, would you mind clarifying this for me please:

- With the PE tag box ticked in CDRipper Options >> Meta Data & ID Tag >> Write ID Tags, when ripping a CD WITHOUT PE, should there be no tag written whatsoever for PE? Or should there be a PE tag, but with a value of No or zero?

- In my above scenarios, does it make sense that de-emphasis is being applied twice (see post 9, point 3)?

Cheers