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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Night off!!
Yeah, the tags are looking good!
Regarding your volume issue, have you tried a Sony dealer, or a more specialist dealer who stocks Sony? When I was selling Hi-Fi, your player is exactly the sort of product, that a Salesman might buy.
Roll forward 20 years, and with smart phones, I'm not sure if that still holds true, but if so, they would more than likely have "sorted" the volume issue, and possibly be delighted to help a fellow owner. Maybe worth a go?
Oggy.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Ha ha! Fair enough; we all deserve one from time to time.
You can not purchase directly from Sony - I asked today. They recommended either: PC World, or Amazon; I purchased mine from the latter actually.
Sony Technical Support are calling me tomorrow as they have escalated my situation now.
PaulComment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
I'll admit I didn't go back and read this whole thread from the beginning, but I think your "volume" issue is that the music is too soft in your headphones, is that correct?
A couple of thoughts: Are you applying any replay gain settings, either for playback or applied (modifying the saved file)? If you set the level too low (if using the EBU loudness control, the bigger the number, the softer it gets) then your player won't have enough gain.
Are the particular headphones/earbuds you are using more insensitive than average? There is no real standard on this, there is a pretty wide variation. I also think that you will find some amplified headsets (that have their own battery operated amplifier) with adjustable gain that you can make louder.
I know that my phone has a warning that pops up when I raise the level above a certain point, but you can make it plenty loud if you ignore the warning. Actually I find the warning annoying, as I'm usually listening via Bluetooth on my car radio which adds its own volume control.
It would seem that arbitrarily limiting the output level might attempt to save some people's hearing (good), but might make listening difficult to impossible for those who have already had hearing loss. (bad). Conflicting goals. But I'm in the USA, we don't have issues with very many mandatory rules like seem to be proliferating in the EU. I'ts good to protect people from dangerous products, but sometimes the definition of dangerous seems to be overdone.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Personally (and I don't have any relationship to any EU law makers), I find the need to cast aspersions here, pretty distasteful and ignorant.
If I recall, the EU directive of a limit of 85dB is a recommendation and can be increased (to 100dB) by the user.
If the OP "simply can not hear the music" at close to 85dB, then either the OP has a hearing problem or the Japanese built player is faulty, neither of which is the fault of the EU.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Well I'm sorry if you were offended. My issue with this particular directive is that it makes some possibly invalid assumptions, it specifies a maximum voltage which it assumes will produce a level of (I'd guess, I don't have a copy of the directive) is 85 dB (what weighting? A?) but as I stated, headphones and earbuds have widely varying specs, both for sensitivity and impedance, the latter of which can also cause major variations in actual acoustic level, depending on the impedance of the output stage of the reproducing device. Also, while the maximum level may be controlled by a limiter in the device, it may also be controlled by not providing much gain in the playback amplifiers, such that low recording levels may not play back with adequate volume even below the 85 (or 100) dB limit.
Both of these issues may cause low acoustic levels in the headphones well below the 85 dB "limit". I have been aware of this directive for a while and I don't think it was well thought out, that's my personal and professional opinion. I don't think it is ignorant. Yes, we don't want people, particularly young people damaging their hearing, but we also want devices made to apparently meet the directive that are usable. Now it may be that the device is defective, or that Sony's implementation was poorly thought out (does it really have a user adjustment to allow what it assumes will produce 100 dB?) but I have to tell you this is not the first time I've heard of this issue, and many of the audio professionals on this side of the pond have similar views to mine.
It is also quite possible that the individual has a hearing "problem"; does that mean that he shouldn't be able to play his music loud enough to compensate. I'm 74 years old, my hearing is not nearly as acute as it was when I was a teenager. My right ear, in particular has a middle ear issue caused by an illness I had in my late teen years. It's "down" somewhere about 15 dB from the left. I compensate. When I was young I only listened to shortwave radio with headphones, and not for 8 hours a day. I didn't attend many "loud" rock and roll concerts. But I did visit a diesel-electric generating plant a few times that left my ears ringing and my threshold shifted, and later some boiler rooms almost as noisy. Luckily for me not for more than a half hour or so. That was in the days before mandatory industrial hearing protection, or for that matter even much of an understanding of the potential damage. The now mandatory hearing protection has certainly been a good thing for the employees of such places.
Of course I also wonder what long term hearing issues I may have acquired from the mandatory army ROTC (indoor) rifle training I was enrolled in at University in the 1960's. No hearing protection then there either, but that's another issue.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Thank you schmidj and I am not offended.
Don't get me wrong here, my post was not meant as a pro EU directive retort, nor do I don't want to get into a pro/anti EU debate on these forums. As a sound engineer, I agree with much of what you say here.
But as you allude to, there may be many reasons why the device is not audible and it is not clear what the problem is, so to assume that it is down to an EU directive and to use that as an opportunity to diss the EU, is to my mind, a cheap shot and where I take issue.
Finally, one of the things I enjoy about these forums, unlike many others, is that they aren't littered with non-relative, personal bias and I'd like them to stay that way.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Mville,
I do not have a hearing problem.
The reason I stated the 'EU' limiter/capping fact was purely to be as transparent as possible (I intended it to help members participating in this discussion rather than antagonizing them). Sony themselves mentioned this factor in their very first breath. Also, there are plenty of other forums full of complaints from similar owners who are unable to remove this restriction. While I did vote 'Brexit' (should you be interested or not), my mentioning of this fact was not made with a view to turning this thread into a political platform for my own rants.
I am here to make new friends and learn. I am not here to argue or upset people. I have ALWAYS tried to be polite and appreciative to every single response, thanking members individually. And so, if you are offended by the content of my posts, then this was not my intention and I would suggest the best solution would be for yourself to not read/participate any longer.
I have tested the device (I may have stated this earlier?) on - now - four sets of headphones; Sennheiser high definition, BeyerDynamic semi-open, Skull Candy entry level, and Sony Walkman earbuds. Plus, I played the Walkman thru a pair of Yamaha flat-response monitors and A/B compared the 'NW-A35' with my previous Sony Walkman of 2007. It is not loud enough whichever way you care to dress it up; and it is certainly not thru loss of my own hearing abilities!
PaulComment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Hi Schmidj,
Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
As per post above, you can see I have tested the device across a range of listening options.
None of the 'resets' or 'formats' or 'adjustments' on the Walkman itself have made any difference. This is why Amazon suggested (last week) purchasing a model from either Asia or the US. They did warn of 'import duty' (of which I once unwittingly got caught out with during an eBay transaction).
The volume actually goes up to '126' I believe it is. In any event, below '50' is pretty weak, '75' (where the annoying 'warning-beep' kicks in!) is the point where you could listen to files if you were (say) in you bedroom with headphones on. But really, '100' is - for me and hundreds of others (Sony, and I quote, told me they have been 'plagued with complaints since February last") - the minimum level for an enjoyable listening experience. Comparing this with my old Sony model, the latter can match this volume if set to a mere (circa) '40'!
Cheers,
PaulComment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Sorry, that comment may have been a little facetious as I didn't think it likely that you have a hearing problem, rather that Sony have an issue with their device.
I understand and yes, if the EU limit was the reason for the low level, I would be happy to agree with you as this would affect millions of portable players and mobile phones.
If you can't hear music on your player, Sony needs to fix this issue so you can. If it were me, I would return the item to Amazon and buy another player that is fit for purpose.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Hi Paul,
I had a look on line, and got an idea at how unsatisfactory the outcome of this is for Sony customers and Sony themselves.
Because Sony are following EU legislation, and for some reason, not all manufacturers are doing this, they are losing sales and being criticised. For them to suggest to customers, and not just the odd, one or two, to either not buy, or import a non EU restricted version, something very well intentioned, and not at all bananas, has gone sadly wrong.
This is a high end portable device, so very likely to be used with better quality, and probably less sensitive headphones, making the matter worse. Schmidj raises many valid points.
OK this is not a travesty like RoHS and lead free solder, but it unintentionally ends up hurting those it is trying to protect.
Hope you achieve a satisfactory conclusion with Sony.
OggyLast edited by Oggy; 08-04-2017, 06:23 PM.Comment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Hi guys,
I will reply in full tomorrow.
Just a quickie to say that I hope we don't fall out on here! I may have made a couple of comments I later regretted; however, everyone I have spoken to on here so far seems very mature and professional. I am happy to wipe the slate clean and I don't mind if anyone chooses to contact a Moderator and request that any offending posts be removed.
I am very impressed and grateful for everyone's assistance with my questions so far.
Thanks,
PaulComment
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Re: Ripping Level Question (help?)
Hi Paul,
Certainly not offended me.
I've found you to be courteous, amusing, factual; and considering your volume issue, remarkably apolitical.
As you have gone through perfecting your ripping methods, asking incredibly logical questions, I believe you have helped many with your screenshots (I really ought to read up how to post them!) and used smart ways of populating the tags, in a repeatable and timely manner.
I'm sure you'll soon be up to two CDs a day!
More significantly, you've shown the importance of trying a file, on your own player, at the earliest opportunity.
The only reason I try and help others, is because I never forget what it was like getting started, and without the amazing help from a number of members, most of them still tirelessly, at times tapping away on mobile phones, going out of their way, to assist us who need a little guidance, be where I am now, a long way through ripping my CD collection.
I for one, salute you all, and couldn't agree more when garym says, this is a friendly, helpful place.
Last edited by Oggy; 08-05-2017, 08:30 AM.Comment
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