Set-Up for Ripping

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

(THIS IS A BIG ONE w/ATTACHMENTS; PLEASE BEAR WITH ME)

PLEASE READ "OVERVIEW – PART 1 (ATTACHED)

THE PART 2 IS ATTACHED TO A SECOND POST THAT FOLLOWS THIS DIRECTLY

It's been over three months since I last posted; I've been busy with termites in the attic, travel to Oregon to see the gorgeous scenery and total eclipse, and doing my taxes.

During that hiatus, much of what you forum posters have patiently taught me seems to have gelled. I've re-read the entire thread, and ripped some disks as you all have suggested.

Now, to wrap my mind around it completely and not forget it, I've written up a overview summary covering the basic elements of dbpa and network music playing.

I would have loved to find such an overview readily available just a click away, when I began the learning process. I think, it condenses in a concise summary the definitions and relationships that I, as a beginner, have struggled with for some months, and which I believe form a necessary starting point in order to use dbpa. I realize this overview is not the whole story and still lacks important detail but it does speak to the basic lack-of-understanding that plagued me in the beginning.

Early on I was told that there is no white paper that describes these fundamentals in simple terms, and so I offer this overview to the Forum and to dbps for two purposes:

1) I hope you all will read it and correct the errors I surely have made, so I can learn.

2) I offer it to all as the white paper that is missing to help other individuals that are trying to learn the system; it constitutes, in the main, what I wish I'd been able to read when I began this process. All of you on the Forum have been so patient and helpful; let this be my contribution.

My hope is that all of you who have been helping me will go beyond correcting mistakes, but will, seeing the areas that I've not addressed, write your own pieces to fill those in and complete the job I've begun (sort of like fleshing out Wikipedia).

It is my further hope that dbps will see the benefit they can gain by having such a white paper linked to their software from a "Help" button prominently displayed on the dbpa main page. In dbpa, Illustrate has the best ripping software in the industry, so there is no reason they shouldn't become the leader in standardizing industry terminology, and in providing education to potential customers, while documenting its software. With a little input from this strong Forum community, that can become a reality. Spoon could curate this effort.

Much of what this overview covers is obvious (dare I say trivial and completely unnecessary) for users who are experienced with dbpa, but for those just starting out, I believe a compact and cogent overview is essential in order to get the lay of the land right up front and know what's going on, and even to understand what they read in the Forum.

It's also entirely possible that I've got it ALL WRONG, in which case I'd better find that out.

I've attached the Overview as a PDF file to preserve the Word formatting I used when writing it. I hope you will open and read it, then tell me if and where I go off the rails.


Below, I've listed some specific questions that I still don't understand, and I hope to learn the answers so I can proceed with confidence and complete the job; my wife is impatient.

1. Regarding folder structure, here's what I think I want. (I remain open to critique and suggestions on this score):

Non-classical: genre\artist\album\disk no.\composer
Classical: genre\composer\album\disc no.\artist

I do want to include the option of using "compilation"

Would any of you be open to, once again, specifying specifically the naming strings that will accomplish the above? I realize you have done this before but I've been generously offered so many strings throughout this long conversation I've lost track, and since I can't decode them to confirm what they do I'm a bit lost; the above is what I think I should start with. (As always, I welcome your critique and comments.)

In some of the naming strings that have been offered I see the term "title." Are song name set up in the Naming string or do they just appear anyway?

garym, I believe it was you who asked why I "resist leading off with composer." I think the reason is because I don't always know or remember a composer's name, particularly for non-classical but can remember the album or work name. Shades of LP albums on the shelf.

2. I'd like multi-disc CD sets to play the discs one after the other automatically without intervention on my part. On the other hand, I take seriously the suggestions that I put each disk in its own folder. Will doing this negate automatic sequential playing?

If possible, I'd like the disc nos. to show as 1/2, 2/2, etc. in the disk column (not as part of the name)

3. I'm confused by Album Artist vs. Artist. What is the specific definition of each?

Further, Blusound says that their app (BluOS) doesn't recognize "Album Artist" or use it. What does this portend?

4. I am a bit confused about Compilations (which I guess inserts "various artists" for Album Artist). But what happens with multiple composers, and multiple "Artists"?

5. How do I handle a CD that contains two complete works? One of you spoke to this issue, however the answer involved two possibilities, one of which required "offsets," which truly mystify me.

6. Title: I'm a bit confused about "title." First, I don't see a clear definition for "title." Is it CD title, music title, song title, album title, work title, or what?

When the word title is use along, without a qualifier, it is ready-made ambiguity.
I note that "title" is used as the name of a song; is it used in any other way?

As I understand it, there is no "title" tag-group and therefore no title in the Naming Structure (although I've see that word in Naming strings that have been suggested). What's up?

The title of a work or CD seems pretty important element, so I'm wondering if the intent is for "Album" to serve as a stand-in for the title of the piece?

Further, I notice that in the online suggestions under the tag icon some of the song titles also contain Name, Genre, and Act, all together in the Title. How/why did those get there? Why not just the song name? (I realize that this info came from other peoples rips, but why/how would "title" accumulate data on genre, and act, etc.in the first place?

I'm confused on this whole title issue.

7. It has been suggested I use different naming strings for classical vs. non-classical. If one rips classical under one Naming string, and NC under a different string, do each of those Naming formats create its own folder-tree in the File Explorer? If not, how to they "interleave" together given that they are different structures?

8. Is it true that dbpa does not intend for users to write their own Naming strings but to always get them from the Forum.? Given that the only way to arrive at the desired folder structure is through trial-and-error, that means repeated experimentation, and that means repeated queries to the Forum. With thousands of users, all experimenting repeatedly to get the job done, that seems like an untenable business model.

There is, indeed, some sketchy info under the "?" symbols, but I find no fundamental tutorial for beginners about how to create meaningful Naming strings. I'm at a loss when it comes to Naming strings.

9. When genre is "classical" or "opera" dbpa presents options for "Work," "Movement number," "movement count," and "Movement name." Are these categories used in the Naming string as are the other categories like composer, artist, etc. or are they simply carried into the listing as additional information?

Is it true that these properties are recognized only by iTunes?

10. When I have a two-disc set, and put each disc in its own folder, as is often recommended, are the two linked in some way so that the player knows to oplay the second disc automatically following the first? I realize the playing of the music is a function of Tags (not naming) but is the sequential playing handled automatically or do I need to link the two disks somehow? Most operas take two or more discs and I'd like to be able to just select the opera by name once, and get all of it.
------------------------------------
Don't forget to open the Overview attachments Part 1, and Part 2.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

HELP!
I'm trying to send a post that has Part 2 attached as a follow-on to my previous post which had the Part 1 attachment, but in making the Part 2 attachment I can't clear out the Part I attachment. The result is that the second post will have both attachments and exceed the allowed limit. How do I clear out the previous attachment from this second post?

Dbarnby

[Spoon]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Perhaps your attachment is too big?

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Early on I was told that there is no white paper that describes these fundamentals in simple terms, and so I offer this overview to the Forum and to dbps for two purposes:

1) I hope you all will read it and correct the errors I surely have made, so I can learn.

2) I offer it to all as the white paper that is missing to help other individuals that are trying to learn the system; it constitutes, in the main, what I wish I'd been able to read when I began this process. All of you on the Forum have been so patient and helpful; let this be my contribution.

I believe Spoon's audio guides, the website help, the individual screen help links, the use of these forums and the internet are a fairly good starting point. Although not definitive and perfect, these are enough to get users familiar with the software and to get up and running. I do appreciate that there is a lot to learn and understand here.

Also, I applaud the need for tagging standards however, I don't think it is possible to write such a white paper as you describe, unless you believe everyone use, organize and tag their files in the same way.

Personally, I don't believe this and do not want to encourage this. These forums tell me that much of what users want, comes down to personal preference and cannot be defined in a single white paper.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Mville:
I appreciate that everyone's approach is different, however the overview I'm suggesting is primarily about definitions (which would/should) be the same for everyone so we're all on the same page, and about the relationship between the variables in dbpa which is a function of dbpa. It represents, for me, an orienting piece that I feel would have gotten me off to a smoother start; the ultimate variability from user to user will always remain, just as you have pointed out.

The first part of my Overview is an attachment (Part 1); I hope you are able to read it. I would welcome your comments.

Spoon:
With regard to my failure to be able to attach Part 2 to a separate post, my problem was that when I tried to attach Part 2 I found that Part 1 (which I had attached to the previous post) was also attached to the second post and I don't know how to delete it. Indeed, as you suggested, the two attachments together are too long.

Thanks,
Don

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I appreciate that everyone's approach is different, however the overview I'm suggesting is primarily about definitions (which would/should) be the same for everyone so we're all on the same page, and about the relationship between the variables in dbpa which is a function of dbpa. It represents, for me, an orienting piece that I feel would have gotten me off to a smoother start; the ultimate variability from user to user will always remain, just as you have pointed out.

The first part of my Overview is an attachment (Part 1); I hope you are able to read it. I would welcome your comments.

Obviously, you are entitled to offer your overview and others may agree with what is said.

However, I have read your overview and although I don't want to rain on your parade, I can't agree with much in it. For example, the first 4 pages mentions Tags and Tag Groups and that Tag Groups are a fixed set of seven elements. To my mind this is nonsense. There are simply Tags (some of which have corresponding sort tags), which contain data. I could go on...

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

I agree with mville here. There are as many approaches to tagging as their are people I suspect. With regard to your white paper draft, I have several issues. I would have attempted to suggest edits, etc. but I find that such an endeavor would be very long and detailed and require a complete rewrite of your document. Respectfully (and I know you worked hard on this), I find much of the information in the document either incorrect, misleading, or confusing. In addition to the "tag groups" discussion mville mentioned, I see mixing up of file names/directories with tagging as if they are the same thing, mixing up of tagging with the searching and filtering music typically done by music library databases and players (and *not* dbpa). And frankly too many other things to list.

I appreciate that the write-up probably does follow the logic of your own personal understanding of the process (and may be a good document for yourself to keep track of how you do things). In fact, many of us keep private documents with listings of commands, tips, etc. related to our own use case of dbpa (and other software).

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

1. Regarding folder structure, here's what I think I want. (I remain open to critique and suggestions on this score):

Non-classical: genre\artist\album\disk no.\composer
Classical: genre\composer\album\disc no.\artist

I do want to include the option of using "compilation"

This makes no sense. Why would you want artist or composer as a separate directory under disc no.? You'd end up with things like:

Rock/The Beatles/The Beatles/Disk 1/Lennon and McCartney

And you could have tracks from that disk spread out over many subdirectories because some songs would have George Harrison as composer. You need to rethink what you want here and post a few specific examples from real CDs. I'm thinking that you are having trouble understanding how a file organization system works with directories and subdirectories (as opposed to being able to browse/search by tag data in order to select and play things, which is a different context altogether).

In some of the naming strings that have been offered I see the term "title." Are song name set up in the Naming string or do they just appear anyway?

title in a naming string is just telling dbpa to put the "title of the song" at that point in the FILE NAME.

garym, I believe it was you who asked why I "resist leading off with composer." I think the reason is because I don't always know or remember a composer's name, particularly for non-classical but can remember the album or work name. Shades of LP albums on the shelf.

that's exactly the benefit of having tags and a library/player that can read the tags and organize by tags. you can search and browse on the things you do remember. Sometimes I remember the name of song, but not artist or album. Or the album name but not the artist or name of song. I can search/browse on any of these items in my music library.

2. I'd like multi-disc CD sets to play the discs one after the other automatically without intervention on my part. On the other hand, I take seriously the suggestions that I put each disk in its own folder. Will doing this negate automatic sequential playing?

You don't have to put each disk in a separate folder if you don't want to. I do this, but mville does not, for example. But in either case, one can play a multidisk CD straight through. This has to do with your player and how it handles things (my players allow me the option to treat multidisk CDs as a single album for playback purposes).

[

3. I'm confused by Album Artist vs. Artist. What is the specific definition of each?
Further, Blusound says that their app (BluOS) doesn't recognize "Album Artist" or use it. What does this portend?

They could be identical or not. Depends. For example, I could have these CDs:

ARTIST: Miles Davis Quintet
ARTIST: Miles Davis Sextet
ARTIST: Miles Davis and Bob Dorough

But in all three cases I might assign ALBUM ARTIST= Miles Davis. This way all my Miles Davis related albums, with slightly different ARTIST tags, will show up in my music library when I browse to "Miles Davis".

In my own case, I leave ALBUM ARTIST blank unless I have a specific need for it (like the Miles Davis example). Other folks fill in ALBUM ARTIST for every track on a CD, even though in many cases ALBUM ARTIST has the same entry as ARTIST.

4. I am a bit confused about Compilations (which I guess inserts "various artists" for Album Artist). But what happens with multiple composers, and multiple "Artists"?

No, Compilations doesn't necessarily insert "various artist" for album artist. You can make the Album Artist anything you want or leave it blank. For example, on a compilation album with many artists doing a tribute to Guy Clark, I might make the ALBUM ARTIST = Guy Clark so that the compilation tribute album shows up under "Guy Clark" albums when I browse to Guy Clark in my music library.

5. How do I handle a CD that contains two complete works? One of you spoke to this issue, however the answer involved two possibilities, one of which required "offsets," which truly mystify me.

I guess you're asking about classical music. Not really sure what to do here, but others will have ideas.

[QUOTE=dbarnby;178623]
6. Title: I'm a bit confused about "title." First, I don't see a clear definition for "title." Is it CD title, music title, song title, album title, work title, or what? [Quote]

TITLE is the title of the song (track) on a CD. TITLE is the tag field name for a *song*. You should be able to easily see this if you've ripped some CDs and look at the resulting tags.

As I understand it, there is no "title" tag-group and therefore no title in the Naming Structure (although I've see that word in Naming strings that have been suggested). What's up?

The title of a work or CD seems pretty important element, so I'm wondering if the intent is for "Album" to serve as a stand-in for the title of the piece?

There is no such thing as a "tag group". This seems to be a confusing idea you've created for your own understanding. When you see TITLE in a naming string, that is simply telling dbpa to insert the title to the song at that point in the file name. ALBUM is the tag field used for holding the name of the album (the CD)

Further, I notice that in the online suggestions under the tag icon some of the song titles also contain Name, Genre, and Act, all together in the Title. How/why did those get there? Why not just the song name? (I realize that this info came from other peoples rips, but why/how would "title" accumulate data on genre, and act, etc.in the first place?

This is just because some people like to do this. tagging is a personal decision. there is no right or wrong answer. I use only song title in the field TITLE.

7. It has been suggested I use different naming strings for classical vs. non-classical. If one rips classical under one Naming string, and NC under a different string, do each of those Naming formats create its own folder-tree in the File Explorer? If not, how to they "interleave" together given that they are different structures?

Not necessarily. It depends on how you've set up the naming string. I think you need to learn a bit more about file organization. A constant thread of your questions points to a lack of understanding of the difference between tags and file/directory names/structures.

8. Is it true that dbpa does not intend for users to write their own Naming strings but to always get them from the Forum.? Given that the only way to arrive at the desired folder structure is through trial-and-error, that means repeated experimentation, and that means repeated queries to the Forum. With thousands of users, all experimenting repeatedly to get the job done, that seems like an untenable business model.

Nothing could be further from the truth. dbpa allows users to create their own personal naming strings. completely flexible. It took me a few times of playing with naming strings to figure it out, but afterwards, I learned I could create almost anything I wanted. And dbpa even shows you on the page where you edit naming string exactly what the result would look like (either generically or even with the real data of the CD that is currently in your drive!). I can't think of how it could possibly be any simpler.

9. When genre is "classical" or "opera" dbpa presents options for "Work," "Movement number," "movement count," and "Movement name." Are these categories used in the Naming string as are the other categories like composer, artist, etc. or are they simply carried into the listing as additional information?

They could be used. Up to you the user if you want to include them in naming string. Again, naming string is just for creating file names and directories/subdirectories. Do NOT confuse this with the tags themselves which almost all modern players use. Trying to be too complicated with file names (naming strings) is a fools errand in my opinion. The *tags* are where the value is in any modern music library and player. Trying to contain too much info in the file names is like building a complicated mechanical structure to allow you and your friends to push a car down the street only to find out that if you start the engine and use the built in engineering of the car, it is much easier to get from point A to point B.

10. When I have a two-disc set, and put each disc in its own folder, as is often recommended, are the two linked in some way so that the player knows to oplay the second disc automatically following the first? I realize the playing of the music is a function of Tags (not naming) but is the sequential playing handled automatically or do I need to link the two disks somehow? Most operas take two or more discs and I'd like to be able to just select the opera by name once, and get all of it.

All depends on your player. Some players yes, some no. My players all allow multidisk CDs to be played as one album. the only "linking" I have to do is to make sure I give all disks in the set the same name for ALBUM. Then only the DISK tag differs (1, 2, 3, etc.). So my player knows that the ALBUM is the same, even though there are multi disks.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi garym

Thanks so very much for your comments on my "Overview" and also the rundown on my 10 specific questions. I'll respond to the Overview questions in another post but the question here.

1) Here's a revised Naming string sequence that I believe incorporates your comments:

NC: genre\artist\album\composer\disc no.
CL: genre\composer\album\artist\disk no.

What do you think about that?
What, then, would be the explicit naming strings I would use for each?

4) I do understand that I can make album artist whatever I choose. What I was asking is: I believe that dbpa automatically inserts the default "various artists" when the compilation box is checked and it is not overridden. However, regarding various composers and various artists (not album artists) are the simply entered "manually" at the user's choice? Do I have this right?


7) You have suggested that I'm pretty confused about several things:

a) In item 7 you point to tags, file, directory names, and structure.

b) In you previous post you point to "mixing up of tagging with the searching and filtering music typically done by music library databases and players "

I'm always open to finding I'm wrong, however, in these cases I believe I do, indeed, understand. The problems I think stem from misunderstanding of each other's terminology and perhaps poor writing on my part.

Regardless of what I may have led you to believe, my understanding is that the Naming string establishes the structure of the folder-tree one sees in the File tree (its sequence and indentation) and has nothing to do with the selection of music by way of the music player app for listening. So that we're clear on terminology, I assume (though I've never seen any clear definition) that the words, file, directory names, and structure that you refer to are in fact concepts that relate to the record of the music as it's stored on the PC C drive or in the NAS, i.e. the File Explorer.

Tags, on the other hand, are used to sequentially in the music player app to select music stored in the PC. If any part of what I've just written is wrong please tell me.

Still, I'm unsure of the answer to my original question *7 which was how do different naming strings (which I believe call for different folder-tree structures) work together in a File Explorer when that graphic is built from both Naming strings?

8. It's encouraging to hear that writing a desired Naming string couldn't be any simpler. Indeed, I've found the help pages in dbpa that provide a list of meanings for various "entries," however I have not run across any description of the syntax or logic that is used to string them together properly, i.e. the rules for creating such a string.

Early on I understood from someone that there was no such tutorial, and that has been pretty discouraging. I confident that one can't just throw various words and symbol into that Naming box haphazardly and expect anything good to result. Everyone in the Forum has been most generous to suggest literal strings that will do the job, however at this point I remain entirely dependent on it. Once I have such strings in hand for NC and CL I will be able to proceed; then I may be able to suss this out.

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Regardless of what I may have led you to believe, my understanding is that the Naming string establishes the structure of the folder-tree one sees in the File tree (its sequence and indentation) and has nothing to do with the selection of music by way of the music player app for listening. So that we're clear on terminology, I assume (though I've never seen any clear definition) that the words, file, directory names, and structure that you refer to are in fact concepts that relate to the record of the music as it's stored on the PC C drive or in the NAS, i.e. the File Explorer.

I guess you haven't read the help documentation then, as Path and Naming are clearly defined in the dBpoweramp CD Ripper online help.

[dbarnby]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

In your earlier post you mentioned "Tags (some of which have corresponding sort tags)." What is a sort tag and what is its relationship to tag? Are you able to help me with an example?

Thanks,
Dbarnby

[mville]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

In your earlier post you mentioned "Tags (some of which have corresponding sort tags)." What is a sort tag and what is its relationship to tag? Are you able to help me with an example?

I've written so many replies to users regarding sort tags, so you will find much info on sort tags in these forums.

For example, here's a thread from yesterday containing info on the composer and composer sort tag and the artist and artist sort tag, with examples: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

[Oggy]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

Hi mville,

In your earlier post you mentioned "Tags (some of which have corresponding sort tags)." What is a sort tag and what is its relationship to tag? Are you able to help me with an example?

Thanks,
Dbarnby

Hi Don, and welcome back!

Composer Gustav Mahler

Composer Sort Mahler, Gustav

If you want Gustav Mahler displayed under G, you would not need to use the corresponding sort tag,

If you want Gustav Mahler displayed under M, add the Composer Sort tag, and enter Mahler, Gustav.

For a naming string, garym's explanation of his, is very helpful:-

[IFCOMP]Compilations\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][]

This produces the following automatically without intervention from me:

For non-compilation (various artists)

x:\music\ARTIST (or Album Artist if it exists)\ALBUM\track number - track title.flac

example,

x:\music\The Beatles\Abbey Road\01 - Come Together.flac

If there are multi disks in the CD, it produces this:

x:\music\Artist (or Album Artist if it exists)\album\disk 1\track no. - track title

example,

x:\music\The Beatles\The Beatles\Disk 1\01 - Back in the U.S.S.R.flac
...
x:\music\The Beatles\The Beatles\Disk 2\01 - Birthday.flac
...

For Compilations (Various Artists):

x:\music\Compilations\album name\track no - track title - track artist name.flac
and if multi disk, I consider that similar to above

example,

x:\music\Compilations\This One's For Him - A Tribute to Guy Clark\01 - That Old Time Feeling - Rodney Crowell.flac

Notes:

1. I use "Compilations" rather than "various artists" as it seems more intuitive to me. But it doesn't matter.
2. I keep multi disk CDs separated by subfolders for each disk because this allows proper treatment by PerfectTunes if I want to check these later with AccurateRip (e.g., after I've copied the folders to a different harddrive for backup)
3. I don't use YEAR in my names, but I do have YEAR, COMPOSER, etc. in my TAGS themselves and my players/databases do display this info.
4. Related to 3 above, remember that the file naming is almost irrelevant (except for some logic when looking at the file structure in windows explorer, etc.). My players could care less about file name or folder location. They are all using the TAG information.
5. I do not embed the album art in my tracks. Rather I have it produce a single album cover artwork file named "cover.jpg" for each album folder.


You are correct, the folder tree does come from the naming string, but as garym explained in his previous post, you really don't want a second Artist and Composer directories, so simply don't use the last folders, in your revised naming suggestions.

If you did this, in garym's Beatles example, you would get a folder tree, thus:-

Rock
The Beatles
The Beatles
Disc 1 Disc 2

The string below will automatically achieve this, putting Disc 1 and Disc 2, in their own folder. Most, players / apps, will play this double CD as a continuous album.

It is your choice if you want Genre, as your first folder in the tree. As you can see, garym does not use it, but entered Rock, in the Genre tag box. Do you need a separate Genre folder?

If you decide you do want all albums to come under a Genre folder, the naming string below, should achieve this. A maximum file length has been added, to save potential problems.

[MAXLENGTH]240,[IFCOMP][genre]\Compilations\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][][]

Why not give a CD a go with both of these suggested strings, and see how you like the results on your player? This will cover all CD variations, though you may want to use Composer, instead of Artist, for Classical.

To work, the album name must be identical for all discs, i.e. The Beatles, The Beatles, and Disc must be populated 1/2, 2/2.

In garym's note 5, he also mentioned that he doesn't embed art in each track, but uses a cover.jpg. This attachment shows using Folder.jpg, which I use, and also the Album Art, pixel and file size restrictions, I've set. This prevents the occasional massive file size, and helps maintain compatibility with some players: I believe that Bluesound rejects file sizes bigger than 600kb, so the 1000x1000, 300x300 settings should be OK.

Note, if you want Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg, and I believe Bluesound works with both, you need to uncheck both Disable Tag Writing AND Album Art, as per screenshot below, and set the appropriate, Write to [output folder]\



Hope this helps,

Oggy

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

2. I keep multi disk CDs separated by subfolders for each disk because this allows proper treatment by PerfectTunes if I want to check these later with AccurateRip (e.g., after I've copied the folders to a different harddrive for backup)

Turns out I was wrong about *2 above. One doesn't have to use separate disk folders for PerfectTunes to work. All tracks can be in one folder, with naming that includes disk and track number, such as 1.01, 1.02, 2.01, 2.02 etc. (But I still personally use the process that keeps each disk in separate subfolder, as Oggy referenced above.

[garym]

Re: Set-Up for Ripping

1) Here's a revised Naming string sequence that I believe incorporates your comments:

NC: genre\artist\album\composer\disc no.
CL: genre\composer\album\artist\disk no.

What do you think about that?
What, then, would be the explicit naming strings I would use for each?

Still makes no sense to me. For example, you'd want a NC album to show up under genre and artist. That makes sense. But then you'd want a separate subdirectory under the album for each composer on the album. Heck, every song could have a different composer. Seems like that structure would be a real mess. Why even have composer in the naming structure for non-classical. Again, you'll have composer in the TAG in case you want to search or browse for composer. But why try to put it in name structure????

What I need from you (and I've asked you for this several times) is a few specific examples of what you want it to look like using real CD info. Post 163 above from Oggy contains good examples that I originally provided. That is, notice that with my naming string I also provide example output using real data on "The Beatles", etc. to illustrate what the outcome looks like. That's what I'm asking you for.

4) I do understand that I can make album artist whatever I choose. What I was asking is: I believe that dbpa automatically inserts the default "various artists" when the compilation box is checked and it is not overridden. However, regarding various composers and various artists (not album artists) are the simply entered "manually" at the user's choice? Do I have this right?

I can't recall dbpa automatically inserting "various artists" in ALBUM ARTIST for compilations. But maybe it does. I'm so used to manually editing or deleting the ALBUM ARTIST field content on every CD I rip, that I probably just do it automatically without thinking about it. And yes, you have ultimate flexibility (you have the right) to manually make these things whatever you want.

7) You have suggested that I'm pretty confused about several things:

a) In item 7 you point to tags, file, directory names, and structure.

b) In you previous post you point to "mixing up of tagging with the searching and filtering music typically done by music library databases and players "

I'm always open to finding I'm wrong, however, in these cases I believe I do, indeed, understand. The problems I think stem from misunderstanding of each other's terminology and perhaps poor writing on my part.

Regardless of what I may have led you to believe, my understanding is that the Naming string establishes the structure of the folder-tree one sees in the File tree (its sequence and indentation) and has nothing to do with the selection of music by way of the music player app for listening. So that we're clear on terminology, I assume (though I've never seen any clear definition) that the words, file, directory names, and structure that you refer to are in fact concepts that relate to the record of the music as it's stored on the PC C drive or in the NAS, i.e. the File Explorer.

Tags, on the other hand, are used to sequentially in the music player app to select music stored in the PC. If any part of what I've just written is wrong please tell me.

Correct in both cases. (although not sure what you mean by sequentially in this context, but yes most players/music libraries are using the tags in the file, and not the file names in browsing, searching, selecting, and playing music.)

Still, I'm unsure of the answer to my original question *7 which was how do different naming strings (which I believe call for different folder-tree structures) work together in a File Explorer when that graphic is built from both Naming strings?

they work together just like any file structure works together. nothing strange about it. If the parent directory is the same, then only some of the subdirectories will be different based on your choices. For example, see the two pictures I've inserted below. Note the "compilations" subdirectory. It is part of my overall music directory (parent directory is music, then flac is a subdirectory, then either artist subdirectories or compilations/album subdirectories), even though the underlying organization within compilations is different (album based) than the rest (which are artist based). You just need to make sure that the parent level directories are the same for all the schemes you use (such as the "music" and "flac" in my example).

8. It's encouraging to hear that writing a desired Naming string couldn't be any simpler. Indeed, I've found the help pages in dbpa that provide a list of meanings for various "entries," however I have not run across any description of the syntax or logic that is used to string them together properly, i.e. the rules for creating such a string.

The help pages on this illustrate what the connectors do in the naming string. I don't know how much more help I can be on this. All I can say, is I worked out from the default example how to create naming strings using the correct terms and connectors then from that played around a bit with trial and error to get the outcome I wanted. There was some learning curve, but within an hour or so of playing with it, I had it all figured out. And setting this up is something one does once. I've used the same naming structure for many years. EDIT. And it is true that some users simply can't get their heads around the logic. But they post here specifics on what they would like the outcome to look like and helpful forum users provide them with a naming string that does what they want. I'm happy to do that for you, but I've yet to understand an example of what you want the output to look like. Again, look at post 163 and how the specifics are layed out using real CD data.