C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

[BarryM]

Hi,

I recently upgraded dBpoweramp from v14 to v16 ... looks great BTW

As part of the upgrade install I tested my CD reader's C2 Error & FUA support. Your program reported that support was available on my drive, so I turned both options on.

I re-ripped a few albums which I had already ripped using v14 (without these features turned on).

In most cases I got exactly the same rip, ie identical CRC32 & CRC ... but with the new version, with these options turned on, it took much longer to get there. ... I saw this result across a number of CDs. ... ie. with the options turned on, *all* tracks went to Ultra Rip, then re-ripped a bunch of frames .... took 3+ times longer ... then got exactly the same result. ... is this as expected?

I have one CD which has a couple of problem tracks for some reason. It is a new CD from Amazon, and appears spotless. ... In these cases I don't see any advantage from the C2 & FUA options either ... similar or longer times to rip ... the new version reports the tracks as Inaccurate, whereas the older version had them as Accurate & Secure (warning).

What is the advantage of these options, and why aren't I seeing it?

One other thing, the new version's log reports the output extension as .__ instead of .flac



Examples ... 1st and last track from CD ... not "problem" tracks
Old, with options turned off
Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 41677 (9:15) in 0:33. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\01.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 59) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 37AD207A AccurateRip CRC: 4D0DE035 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-1]
Track 12: Ripped LBA 305377 to 354840 (10:59) in 0:16. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\12.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 55) [Pass 1]
CRC32: 1625E26B AccurateRip CRC: 4DC50277 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-12]

New version, with options turned on
Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 41677 (9:15) in 1:27. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\01._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 59) [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 126 Frames]
CRC32: 37AD207A AccurateRip CRC: 4D0DE035 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-1]
Track 12: Ripped LBA 305377 to 354840 (10:59) in 1:28. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\12._
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 55) [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 304 Frames]
CRC32: 1625E26B AccurateRip CRC: 4DC50277 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-12]



The old version, w/o options ... the two "problem" tracks:
Track 2: Ripped LBA 41677 to 56592 (3:18) in 0:08. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\02.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 59) [Pass 1]
CRC32: EA54D19A AccurateRip CRC: 6C6DA477 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-2]
Track 6: Ripped LBA 129662 to 159202 (6:33) in 0:47. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\06.flac
Secure (Warning) [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 2 Frames]
CRC32: F9154FA9 AccurateRip CRC: 96B4ACA1 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-6]

The new versions, with the features turned on:
Track 2: Ripped LBA 41677 to 56592 (3:18) in 0:27. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\02._
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 59) Secure (Warning) [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 48 Frames]
CRC32: 2D302256 AccurateRip CRC: 852D8708 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-2]
Track 6: Ripped LBA 129662 to 159202 (6:33) in 0:47. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\06._
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 60) Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 96 Frames]
CRC32: F9154FA9 AccurateRip CRC: 96B4ACA1 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-6]

I repeated the two problem tracks same settings ... didn't clean the disk ... didn't even handle it ... this time with different results (?)
Track 2: Ripped LBA 41677 to 56592 (3:18) in 0:45. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\02._
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 59) Secure (Warning) [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 48 Frames]
CRC32: 2D302256 AccurateRip CRC: 852D8708 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-2]
Track 6: Ripped LBA 129662 to 159202 (6:33) in 1:07. Filename: D:\Do Not Backup\FLAC\New Flac\Caravan\For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night\06._
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 60) Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 97 Frames]
CRC32: 94190796 AccurateRip CRC: 7E3E53A6 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 012-00222033-0140337c-af127b0c-6]

Full logs attached.

CD Drive:
Manufacturer: HL-DT-ST
CD Drive: BDDVDRW CH12LS28
Firmware: 1.00
Serial: 1
Maximum Speed: 7056 KB/sec (x40)
Current Speed: 7056 KB/sec (x40)
Spin-down After: 2 minutes
Buffer Size: 4 MB
Accurate Stream: Yes
C2 Error Pointers: Yes
Reads ISRC: Yes
Reads UPC: Yes

[Spoon]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

Seems that c2 is not supported correctly by your drive, try to disable it.

[BarryM]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

With C2 turned off I get the save rip in V16 as I did with V14 ... so that is good, in a sweeping the problem under the carpet kind of way.

I only set C2 an after doing the recommended test with a CD with a blackened sector. ... did this give a false positive for my drive? Why?

Does the C2 logic come into play during error detection, or does it help during frame re-reads? ... ie. I seem to get false errors detected ... but then the clean up is very fast .. ie the frame rereads seems handled much quicker that without C2.

If I do have a disk requiring a lot of frame re-reads, is there any point turning on C2 for this disk.

"One other thing, the new version's log reports the output extension as .__ instead of .flac"

Intentional change? If so, why?

[Spoon]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

Some drives have buggy implementations of c2 pointers.

The .___ file is the temp file it writes to whilst ripping, the are renamed at the end.

[BarryM]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

I made an error when creating the simulated scratch disk. I blackened the whole segment, ie. track 1 also.

With a corrected disk I now see that the drive reports itself as being C2 compliant immediately, so I take it that this is a sign that the drive compliance is suspect?

I tested another drive, and C2 facility works as advertised with that drive.

Sorry about the confusion.

I do have one problem though. Looking a my old rips I see that I had drive read cache set to 1024 KB. Presumably I used your setup procedure to measure and make that setting. I can't be sure, but it seems likely.

V16 reports that neither of drives have a Drive Read Cache. See attached image.

Is this likely? Wouldn't even a basic drive have a read cache?

What effect does a setting of "none" have upon the ripping process? Should I manually set it back to 1024?

"The .___ file is the temp file it writes to whilst ripping, the are renamed at the end."

Prior versions of dBpoweramp logged the correct file name, which seems preferable.

[Spoon]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

>so I take it that this is a sign that the drive compliance is suspect?

Yes

For a safest setting leave the disc cache at 1024

[BarryM]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

For a safest setting leave the disc cache at 1024

Why is dBpoweramp reporting that my drive doesn't have a cache? .. Will this be resolved?

What was the impact of ripping with drive cache set to None? I ripped a couple of albums today. Should I re-rip them?

[Spoon]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

Cache detection is not an exact science.

If you set it to non and it does cache then the results could be reported wrong (if AccurateRip did not verify).

[BarryM]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

Cache detection is not an exact science.

Apparently not

I have a multi-PC dBpoweramp licence. I still had v15 running on my laptop. It reported a 369kb (?!) cache on both v15 & now with v16 also. So at least it is consistent.

Should I bump that up to 1024 also?

My desktop has two CD drives which "do appear to cache". Could it be the fact that I have two CD drives attached which is fouling your cache detection mechanism?

If you set it to non and it does cache then the results could be reported wrong (if AccurateRip did not verify).

It is you who is setting it to None ... ie. your detection facility defaulted it to None when it could find no drive cache.
Based upon your recommendation to me, shouldn't you be defaulting it to 1024kb when you find no read cache?

What does dBpoweramp do with the cache configuration setting?

One further piece of feedback re the new UI, additional to the general thumps up in my 1st post.
The old Rip Status icon for an accurate rip (blue tick on red background IIRC) was bold & reassuring.
The new one is washed out & insipid, ... looks as if you are trying to convey that either something is still in-progress, or has paused, or has issues

[Spoon]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

It is best set to 1024

[BarryM]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

It is best set to 1024

OK, thanks.

Hopefully you will fix your default for drives where you fail to detect a cache.

I am all good now , but would you just at least a brief answer or explanatory link to this? I would like to understand it better.

"What does dBpoweramp do with the drive read cache configuration setting?"

[garym]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

"What does dBpoweramp do with the drive read cache configuration setting?"

When re-rereading the (CD), it empties the cache first. This is to make sure that the multiple reads (to insure bit perfect transfer) are actually picking up a new read from the CD and not simply using the info from a prior read that is still in the cache. Otherwise, if the cache wasn't emptied, it would think the new read matched the old read because it is actually using the old data (in the cache). The 1024 is best, because that's the largest it could possibly be, even if the drive reports something else (or reports no cache). So one is safe with 1024 no matter what.

p.s. On your earlier rips, if the had AccurateRip matches, then they are for sure good, no matter what your cache settings were.

[BarryM]

Re: C2 Error options take 3 times longer, but give exactly the same result?

Thanks GaryM. That rounds out the picture for me. All itches are now scratched