Audio dropouts

[brantome]

Hi, I've been using CD Ripper for a while on a succession of PCs, but have been running into a few issues of late. I've a relatively new HP Touchsmart q110na PC running Windows 10, with a Samsung SU208 drive which had been failing to secure rip CDs for a while, so I replaced the CD drive with the same model a few weeks back (in-between times, I reverted to burst mode). However, even this new drive is re-ripping several frames on a handful of tracks on each of the newly purchased CDs I've ripped, but more annoyingly, I'm getting audible dropouts on tracks - even ones that were successfully securely ripped, which I don't comprehend - how can a secure/accurate rip have anomalies?

Here's an excerpt from the log file of a CD I've just attempted to rip, where the first track, for example, has a dropout 1m30s in :

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dBpoweramp Release 14.4 Digital Audio Extraction Log from 07 June 2016 17:28

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'I: [TSSTcorp - CDDVDW SU-208HB ]', Drive offset: 0, Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: Yes, Cache: 1024 KB, FUA Cache Invalidate: Yes
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max, Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: Max, Maximum Re-reads: 34

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-5
DSP Effects / Actions: -dspeffect1="Bit Depth=-depth={qt}24{qt}" -dspeffect2="Volume Normalize= -mode={qt}ebu{qt} -maxamp={qt}8{qt} -desiredb={qt}3{qt} -adapt_wnd={qt}6000{qt} -fixed={qt}0{qt}" -dspeffect3="Audio CD - Hidden Track Silence Removal= -digsilence -dbsilence={qt}-45{qt} -window={qt}40000{qt}"

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 15425 (3:25) in 0:25. Filename: F:\Pete\My Music\Sneaky Music\Paul Simon\Stranger To Stranger (Deluxe Edition)\01 - The Werewolf - Paul Simon.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: AC7C7B97 AccurateRip CRC: 3D773587 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 016-001e51de-0171e3b1-e50c9f10-1]

Track 2: Ripped LBA 15425 to 30267 (3:17) in 0:18. Filename: F:\Pete\My Music\Sneaky Music\Paul Simon\Stranger To Stranger (Deluxe Edition)\02 - Wristband - Paul Simon.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: DBEC9339 AccurateRip CRC: 7B342AF7 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 016-001e51de-0171e3b1-e50c9f10-2]

Track 3: Ripped LBA 30267 to 34976 (1:02) in 0:05. Filename: F:\Pete\My Music\Sneaky Music\Paul Simon\Stranger To Stranger (Deluxe Edition)\03 - The Clock - Paul Simon.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: 5E9FB852 AccurateRip CRC: B4E44A53 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 016-001e51de-0171e3b1-e50c9f10-3]

Track 4: Ripped LBA 34976 to 44835 (2:11) in 0:11. Filename: F:\Pete\My Music\Sneaky Music\Paul Simon\Stranger To Stranger (Deluxe Edition)\04 - Street Angel - Paul Simon.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: DAEDD2C1 AccurateRip CRC: E6462752 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 016-001e51de-0171e3b1-e50c9f10-4]

Track 5: Ripped LBA 44835 to 65511 (4:35) in 0:27. Filename: F:\Pete\My Music\Sneaky Music\Paul Simon\Stranger To Stranger (Deluxe Edition)\05 - Stranger To Stranger - Paul Simon.flac
Secure (Warning) [Pass 1, Re-Rip 4 Frames]
CRC32: C722BE74 AccurateRip CRC: E4914BAE (CRCv2) [DiscID: 016-001e51de-0171e3b1-e50c9f10-5]
Re-rip Frame: 59915 (00:03:21.066) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 59916 (00:03:21.080) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 59917 (00:03:21.093) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 60863 (00:03:33.706) matched 10 / 11

Track 6: Ripped LBA 65511 to 76132 (2:21) in 0:14. Filename: F:\Pete\My Music\Sneaky Music\Paul Simon\Stranger To Stranger (Deluxe Edition)\06 - In A Parade - Paul Simon.flac
Secure [Pass 1]
CRC32: 5A4B7864 AccurateRip CRC: EA25732B (CRCv2) [DiscID: 016-001e51de-0171e3b1-e50c9f10-6]

-----------------


Any idea what might be wrong, and is there anyway CD Ripper could identify such dropouts rather than me having to discover them later on listening (although maybe that would interfere with Hidden Track Silence Removal) ?

Thanks

[Spoon]

Re: Audio dropouts

Audio dropouts might not be ripping related, instead, playback related. If you get an accuraterip verification then the rip is correct. However the log you posted, the disc was not verified by accuraterip.

[brantome]

Re: Audio dropouts

Hi, thanks for the response: however, I'm still in the land of confusion...
1. Are you saying that a secure rip is not a CRC checked bit-by-bit copy of what is on the CD? I perhaps misunderstood that AccurateRip was just a further comparison of rips from different pressings/ users
2. I think I'm also missing your point about ripping v playback. I loaded the ripped flac files into some software that show me a waveform (e.g. TotalRecorder, VinylStudio) and they clearly show dropouts, as well as hearing such when I play the tracks back on my PC or to my Linn Sneaky from my NAS
3. The CDs I'm seeing/ hearing this on are all new, as is the CD drive. I guess there's a chance the replacement CD drive I bought is faulty, but I would hope that was unlikely. I've uninstalled and re-installed it under Device Manager and checked it has the latest driver. Might there be a driver or software issue at play?
4. The first CD I tried after re-installing the device was used successfully to calculate the offset for the drive. I took a random four CDs off the shelf to allow it to calibrate the remaining two required, but while they were all in Accuraterip, I kept getting a "This keydisc cannot be used for offset detection...etc" error. Is this indicative of the drive being at the root of my problems?
5. I deselected using C2 offsets and cache, but this only seemed to up the number of re-rip frames. Again, does this look like drive rather than CD issues?

If my problems indicate that replacing the drive with the same make isn't helping, is there one that could be recommended? Would it be advisable or not to use and external USB CD drive instead?

Thanks again

[garym]

Re: Audio dropouts

Hi, thanks for the response: however, I'm still in the land of confusion...
1. Are you saying that a secure rip is not a CRC checked bit-by-bit copy of what is on the CD? I perhaps misunderstood that AccurateRip was just a further comparison of rips from different pressings/ users

If dbpa reports an ACCURATERIP match, this means that the rip's CRC matches the rip of the same track by some other person that has ripped that album. I suspect you are NOT getting this outcome if in fact there is a dropout in your rip itself (as this wouldn't match the rips of others). A "Secure" rip is one where dbpa has done its best to get a secure rip with no errors, but without the AR match, there is no sure way of knowing your secure rip is actually correct. (Don't misunderstand me here: a "secure" rip from dbpa is as good as one can possibly get in terms of bit perfect ripping if an AccurateRip match is not available.)

Note that CRC in a rip is not something reported on a CD that can be matched against. Instead, a CRC is the OUTCOME of the rip for each track. Then one can *compare* this CRC to the CRCs that others obtained when they ripped the same CD title. This is the basic idea of AccurateRip and why such a comparison is the gold standard of insuring a perfect rip.

EDIT: if you are in fact getting AR matches and these files are showing dropouts. Then something odd is happening between the time the rip is completed and the file is saved. Are you copying these files elsewhere after ripping?

[brantome]

Re: Audio dropouts

I don't think I've managed anything near an Accuraterip match since I started having problems - indeed, the more CDs I try, the more re-rips I seem to be experiencing. They show as secure, but still have dropouts when viewed/played in Totalrecorder, for example.
I might have an older laptop that, while slower, did give me secure, accurate rips as far as I recall. I'll dig that out and try the CDs again there. I'm coming to the conclusion that the drive/PC combination isn't up to the task, even though it appeared to be fine until a few months ago. Still have a nagging doubt though that software/driver issues might be lurking around, but haven't made any headway there either...
I do eventually copy the ripped flac files to my NAS for use with my SneakyDS, but the problems I'm reporting are on files created and inspected on the PC they were ripped on
Thanks

[garym]

Re: Audio dropouts

I don't think I've managed anything near an Accuraterip match since I started having problems - indeed, the more CDs I try, the more re-rips I seem to be experiencing. They show as secure, but still have dropouts when viewed/played in Totalrecorder, for example.
I might have an older laptop that, while slower, did give me secure, accurate rips as far as I recall. I'll dig that out and try the CDs again there. I'm coming to the conclusion that the drive/PC combination isn't up to the task, even though it appeared to be fine until a few months ago. Still have a nagging doubt though that software/driver issues might be lurking around, but haven't made any headway there either...
I do eventually copy the ripped flac files to my NAS for use with my SneakyDS, but the problems I'm reporting are on files created and inspected on the PC they were ripped on
Thanks

I suspect first a drive going bad. 2nd could be hard drive problems, but this sounds more like a drive problem. Drives do go bad over time in their ability to extract data. And ripping does put stress on drives. Can you get any old external USB drive and try it on that PC. Or add a drive to that PC? Almost any drive can work well and I find that some drives will rip a particular CD where other drives won't. My drives are all cheap drives, so this is not about cost....

[brantome]

Re: Audio dropouts

Cheers - I'm getting this issue on a drive I only bought a few weeks ago to replace one that had been displaying similar issues, perhaps after I had decided to rip a couple of dozen CDs in a session, but I'll need to inspect the files I've ripped/ copied to my NAS before that to check if they're fine now...

The hard drive is a 500GB SSD I installed before last Christmas and I haven't noticed any other issues with it - hopefully it's fine!

I'll order an external drive ASAP, as well as digging out my old laptop, and see how things go.

Thanks again for your insights

[brantome]

Re: Audio dropouts

Just an update to say I'm back with a new external dive which is now back to giving me Accuraterip results - the previous replacement drive must have been faulty as well as the one it was meant to replace. Thanks again for your help

[garym]

Re: Audio dropouts

Just an update to say I'm back with a new external dive which is now back to giving me Accuraterip results - the previous replacement drive must have been faulty as well as the one it was meant to replace. Thanks again for your help

excellent!