How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

[handygrandad]

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Help! .... .... .... I'm running out of ideas:

I have several CDs that are continuous recordings of live shows ... and they have track listings for the individual songs. I also have many classical albums where the music is continuous but there is a track listing for each movement.

It seems to me that somehow gaps are being inserted in these recordings that do not exist on the originals. I have listened to both the original and the recording through the same VLC media player and only the recording has gaps ! ... Does this mean that dvpoweramp is inserting gaps that do not exist on the original ?

If so, how can I stop this behaviour?

I have tried recording each track using DSP/Action "remove gaps" but I'm still left with a distracting microsecond blip between tracks.

Basically what I want is to recreate exactly what I have on the original CD .... I can't believe that this is not catered for within dbpoweramp ... please can someone tell me what I am missing ??

[mville]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

Either change your media player, as VLC is not a gapless media player OR rip the CD using the Rips As 1 feature.

I suggest you try another media player which supports gapless playback e.g. foobar2000.

[garym]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

Either change your media player, as VLC is not a gapless media player OR rip the CD using the Rips As 1 feature.

I suggest you try another media player which supports gapless playback e.g. foobar2000.

as mville point out, the player (VLC) is the problem. I too recommend foobar2000 if running windows. Download from here. Very configurable, but right out of box will do what you want.

https://www.foobar2000.org/getfile/2e0e91b575781719068f14418065f701/foobar2000_v1.3.8.exe

[handygrandad]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

Thanks to mville and garym for such a quick reply.

I have downloaded and installed foobar2000 and it certainly solves the problem on my PC.

I wonder if you might be able to help me further:

I use "Servio" to turn my PC into a server which is then able to stream audio, video and pics via Powerlink adaptors to my Sony, Smart TV in another part of the house.

When I listen to audio recordings of live shows through this network I get the same silent blip between each track.

The only way I have been able to resolve this is to make two recordings one by track and the other continuous ("rip as one"), that way I have similar options available to me as on the original disc. However, I am unable to select a track as a starting point within the show and to listen to the remaining tracks without the blips, for that I have to use the continuous recording and scan back and forth to find my chosen starting point.

You seem to suggest that the gaps are introduced by the players (or server in this case). I am very curious as to how and why this happens. I find it difficult to believe that media player (and server) developers would be unaware of this issue, or unable to resolve it. Obviously the designers of foobar2000 have overcome the problem.

Or, is it that foobar2000 has an association with dbpoweramp and is resolving a problem created by dbpoweramp in the first place. i.e. do all rippers add track gaps to continuous music recordings ?

[Spoon]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

UPnP is not gapless, nothing you can do.

[garym]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

First, no, dbpa and foobar and not connected in some way that allows foobar to solve "a problem" created by dbpa. That's not it. dbpa is creating gapless rips. And all lossless files are ripped gapless by default by any ripper that is not broken! You have discovered the dirty "secret" of streaming audio standards. And that is that DNLA (the standard, and what servio and your TV are using) is, in a word, almost complete crap. DNLA does not handle gapless natively. I believe it may not use ReplayGain tags properly (not sure on this). There are some workarounds that some servers, players, clients can use that try to fix these things in a DNLA context (even Illustrate has software callled ASSET that trys to solve some problems with DLNA). There are lots of other problems with DLNA too regarding music library management, etc. DLNA is truly "lowest common denominator" approach that for most users is "good enough" (these are the same users that crappy mp3 files, crappy ear buds, and not good implementation of using metadata tagging is "good enough"). The fact that you're ripping with dbpa means you are NOT one of these folks for which this stuff is "good enough".

In addition to the DNLA/UpNp workarounds that some vendors use, there are much better music streaming eco systems that do not use DLNA. They use other approaches, and handle gapless, provide better browsing experiences, handle ReplayGain tags, etc. I use a squeezebox streaming system. Others use SONOS (I have one of those too, just to play with). Squeezeboxes are unfortunately discontinued, but there is a thriving DIY, 3rd party squeezebox community of users that have figured out ways to turn microcomputers such as Rasberry Pi into Squeezebox devices. And the server software, Logitech Media Server (LMS) works with all these. SONOS handles gapless streaming perfectly as well.

Google "dlna and gapless" and you'll see lots of discussion on this issue. You'll also see some references to some of the servers/players, etc. that have figured out workarounds to get gapless with DLNA. Also, do yourself a favor and use something other than your smart TV for audio streaming. It works, but often is a clunky implementation. And even devices noted as meeting all the DLNA certifications may in fact not meet all those things (and such certification does NOT require gapless playback by the way). Get a separate network music player (a Sonos, a squeezebox TOUCH from ebay, run a microcomputer that emulates a squeezebox, put a small fanless, headless micro computer next to your stereo (and run Vortexbox on it, which will store your music *and* turn the small computer into a Squeezebox virtual player (called Squeezelite).

[handygrandad]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

Hmmmm ... interesting responses:

One,"Nothing you can do", and the other full of useful possibilities.

Thanks again for such a quick reply.

I have been very impressed with the sound quality I get feeding the output from the Smart TV into my Cyrus hi-fi. I have a critical ear and I'm unable to find a difference in quality between the stream and the original CD.

As you say the GUI on the TV is a bit clunky, but I can live with that.

I am keen to research your other recommendations as I will shortly be moving house and it's an opportunity to review my whole network set-up.

Many thanks for taking the time to respond.... .....

May you thrive and prosper.

[garym]

Re: How can I rip a continuous CD without gaps and retain the original tracks ?

Hmmmm ... interesting responses:

One,"Nothing you can do", and the other full of useful possibilities.

Spoon is of course exactly correct in terms of "nothing you can do" regarding gapless because the DLNA standard doesn't do gapless. My suggestions are about moving to a music streaming system that is NOT DLNA (LMS/Squeezeboxes and Sonos use something other than DLNA and some internal software stuff to give one gapless, ability to sync multiple players around the house, etc.). And I wasn't suggesting that what I'm discussing would change audio QUALITY. The quality should be the same given the same files. My suggestion relates to other things (like gapless, browsing and searching experience, library management, etc.).

Yes, if moving houses, now is a good time to explore other options. Check out the Squeezebox forums here:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/

and the wiki (somewhat out of date, but still will give you an idea)

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Main_Page

Here's info on vortexbox:

http://info.vortexbox.org/

and sonos:

http://www.sonos.com/system

(note, you don't have to use the SONOS speaker products. You can use a SONOS Connect which would connect to your preamp (just as s CD player would connect) or connect to a DAC, then your preamp/amp, and then anything streamed would play via your stereo and your own speakers.

[handygrandad]

https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/images/icons/icon7.png Update

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Hi all,

So, I bought a used Squeezebox Duet on eBay and set it up today!

As promised the gaps have disappeared (unless they were part of the original recording).

In addition I now have a remote controller with a built-in display that allows me to navigate to an album or a single track from anywhere in the house, (I haven't even looked at the internet radio stations yet). I am delighted! The Squeezebox system seems so much more practical (and fun) than other more expensive hi-fi streaming devices.

I still have my Smart TV for streaming videos but I wouldn't be without the Squeezebox remote for accessing my audio.

Many thanks for your help.

Handygrandad

[garym]

Re: https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/images/icons/icon7.png Update

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Hi all,

So, I bought a used Squeezebox Duet on eBay and set it up today!

As promised the gaps have disappeared (unless they were part of the original recording).

In addition I now have a remote controller with a built-in display that allows me to navigate to an album or a single track from anywhere in the house, (I haven't even looked at the internet radio stations yet). I am delighted! The Squeezebox system seems so much more practical (and fun) than other more expensive hi-fi streaming devices.

I still have my Smart TV for streaming videos but I wouldn't be without the Squeezebox remote for accessing my audio.

Many thanks for your help.

Handygrandad

I'm pleased you enjoy it. I love my extensive squeezebox system