ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

[bvd81]

Hi all,

First time post, long time reader. I have a quick question regarding the use of ReplayGain (Apply).

Before anyone asks, I have read all over these and other forums, and I just want to clarify the differences between ReplayGain and ReplayGain (Apply).

From what I can tell, the following differences occur with these two DSP's when ripping a CD to FLAC.

ReplayGain (Apply)
Rip CD -> ReplayGain applied to tag and FLAC file (therefore the FLAC is not a true copy of the original as it has been altered by the DSP).

ReplayGain
Rip CD -> ReplayGain only applied to tag (FLAC is a true copy of the original).

Is this the correct interpretation of the application of these 2 DSP's?

Thanks for your help.

[Spoon]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

ReplayGain (Apply) needs an existing ReplayGain ID Tag, instead look at 'Volume Normalize' if you want to calculate the gain and apply it.

[garym]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hi all,

First time post, long time reader. I have a quick question regarding the use of ReplayGain (Apply).

Before anyone asks, I have read all over these and other forums, and I just want to clarify the differences between ReplayGain and ReplayGain (Apply).

From what I can tell, the following differences occur with these two DSP's when ripping a CD to FLAC.

ReplayGain (Apply)
Rip CD -> ReplayGain applied to tag and FLAC file (therefore the FLAC is not a true copy of the original as it has been altered by the DSP).

ReplayGain
Rip CD -> ReplayGain only applied to tag (FLAC is a true copy of the original).

Is this the correct interpretation of the application of these 2 DSP's?

Thanks for your help.

Spoon has clarified that Replay Gain (Apply) needs to first have a ReplayGain TAG. But other than this procedural step, your interpretation is correct. Once you choose "RG (Apply)" the file is no longer bit perfect back to the original. But with simply ReplayGain, you are writing tag information. your audio is still bit perfect back to original. The RG tag (album or track) is simply a tag like ARTIST, GENRE, etc. With the Replaygain tag, it is up to the PLAYER to use the tag info to adjust volume on the fly. In my own case, squeezeboxes and foobar2000 are my players and they all use the RG tag info to adjust volume.

[bvd81]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Thanks for the quick responses. Just to clarify, therefore if I was to rip a CD to FLAC, and the only DSP that was selected was ReplayGain (apply) Album Gain, the files would still be fine as the tag is created during the ripping process. I would then use Replay Gain (apply) again to modify the FLAC file with the TAG RG info?

[garym]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Thanks for the quick responses. Just to clarify, therefore if I was to rip a CD to FLAC, and the only DSP that was selected was ReplayGain (apply) Album Gain, the files would still be fine as the tag is created during the ripping process. I would then use Replay Gain (apply) again to modify the FLAC file with the TAG RG info?

No. Don't use replay gain (apply) in your initial rip. Use the plain ReplayGain DSP so that it just adds the tag only.

[Dat Ei]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey Gary,

do you recommend to use ReplayGain DSP during the initial rip or to use it during the conversion into the final destination(s)? Will the gain tags be transported into the final destinations? Does it make any difference at all?


Dat Ei

[garym]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey Gary,

do you recommend to use ReplayGain DSP during the initial rip or to use it during the conversion into the final destination(s)? Will the gain tags be transported into the final destinations? Does it make any difference at all?

Dat Ei

Hi Dat Ei. I use ReplayGain DSP (adding track and album tags) during the initial rip. Then if I later convert my FLAC files to mp3 for use in portables, I use the ReplayGain DSP again in such conversion (so instead of just copying over the RG tags from the FLAC files, it creates new RG tags for the mp3 files. Of course the RG values are very similar, but are not identical.

[Dat Ei]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey Gary,

thank you for your input and sharing your experience.

I guess tagging during the inital rip makes sense especially if one want the lossless source files (flac in my case) not only for later conversions but for replay to.

Of course the RG values are very similar, but are not identical.

That's interesting! Could be effect of the mp3 algorithms, cutting off some frequencies.

On the other hand I understand now, that the converter does not convert the amplified source file, but the original data without considering the RG tags of the source.


Dat Ei

[garym]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey Gary,

thank you for your input and sharing your experience.

I guess tagging during the inital rip makes sense especially if one want the lossless source files (flac in my case) not only for later conversions but for replay to.



That's interesting! Could be effect of the mp3 algorithms, cutting off some frequencies.

On the other hand I understand now, that the converter does not convert the amplified source file, but the original data without considering the RG tags of the source.


Dat Ei

Yes, in my home system, I'm using the original FLAC files I ripped as my playback library. And correct, the mp3 file is not identical to the lossless FLAC, thus the slight difference in RG tag values. And also correct that the converter is converting the FLAC files *without regard for the RG tags in the FLAC files*. Of course if one used ReplayGain(Apply) on the FLAC files (which I would NOT recommend), then there would be no need for any RG tags on the mp3 conversions as the underlying audio would have already been modified.

[mville]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

I guess tagging during the inital rip makes sense especially if one want the lossless source files (flac in my case) not only for later conversions but for replay to.

The only reason I can see for lossless format ReplayGain (non-apply DSP) tagging, after the initial rip, is for multi-disc albums, which is, as I recall, what garym does i.e. re-calculate ReplayGain based on all discs in a single album.

[garym]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

The only reason I can see for lossless format ReplayGain (non-apply DSP) tagging, after the initial rip, is for multi-disc albums, which is, as I recall, what garym does i.e. re-calculate ReplayGain based on all discs in a single album.

Correct, If I have a multidisk album, the RG tags are added PER DISK when done at ripping time. So after the fact I load up all the disks in a multidisk album and rerun RG so that the ALBUM RG tag is for the complete album (all disks included). Think of something like a 3 disk Grateful Dead live show...I would play this as one album and would want the album RG value to be the same.

[Dat Ei]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey Gary, hey mville,

what is your experience with the Album identification option "Album ID Tag" vs. "All Files in Same Folder"? Did you ever see any difference if all album tracks were in the same folder?

@Gary: Do you only update the Album gain during the rerun, cause track gains should be fix and independent of the number of discs in the set?

For iTunes I have to decide if I want album or track normalisation - I can't have both. Is that another constraint of iTunes?


Dat Ei

[mville]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

what is your experience with the Album identification option "Album ID Tag" vs. "All Files in Same Folder"? Did you ever see any difference if all album tracks were in the same folder?

I only ever use the Album identification option "Album ID Tag", so I can't comment on any differences between the 2 options.

I could use the "All Files in Same Folder" option, as I have all tracks for any single album in a single folder. In this situation, I would expect the same results.

[garym]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey Gary, hey mville,

what is your experience with the Album identification option "Album ID Tag" vs. "All Files in Same Folder"? Did you ever see any difference if all album tracks were in the same folder?

@Gary: Do you only update the Album gain during the rerun, cause track gains should be fix and independent of the number of discs in the set?

For iTunes I have to decide if I want album or track normalisation - I can't have both. Is that another constraint of iTunes?


Dat Ei

I use album ID tag approach. But I think this option may be in converter not in ripper. Ripper writes the RG album rag at the end of each disk rip. How would the ripper know how many more disks were coming?

I just let it update both album and track. Not needed but fast and simple enough.

And yes, another limitation of iTunes. I use the album tag to create the iTunes sound check value myself. Then again, if with the lossy files one does lots of random play, track is likely better. After all, when listening to an entire album in iPhone, one can simply temporarily turn off soundcheck in iphone/iPod.

[Dat Ei]

Re: ReplayGain (Apply) Album Gain vs ReplayGain

Hey mville,

I could use the "All Files in Same Folder" option, as I have all tracks for any single album in a single folder. In this situation, I would expect the same results.

in most, but not all cases this is true for me too. But I own some CD boxes (like this), containing compilations of several albums, sometimes with two albums on one disc. I've splitted those discs and boxes into the original albums with one folder for each album. Unfortunately all these resulting albums contain the album ID of the box.


Dat Ei