Changing Metadata

[wendell]

I'm starting to rip all of my CDs to a NAS drive and started with Beethoven's complete works, a 95 CD set. Started with the first 4 to test the process and found the metadata to be all over the place. Looked on here to see how to edit it after ripping but didn't find a solution so deleted the first 4 discs and re-ripped them but changed all the metadata first so that Beethoven and the pieces on the disc would be how I would see the content. Didn't work as what still shows up on my BluOS app is Various Artists, the conductor or the orchestra as the artist which is going to make searching for music once I have 2000 discs uploaded rather difficult.

Certainly there has to be a better way to do this?

[BrodyBoy]

Yes and no. There IS an easier way than to edit all the metadata prior to each disc, but there's no quick and easy solution that doesn't require some editing on your part.

For what it's worth, classical music is by far the hardest to "groom" and organize, because the online databases...and metadata categories in general....are geared toward pop music. The databases are horrible for classical recordings, and the main tag categories aren't a good fit. Honestly, if you happen to plan on ripping anything easier than that Beethoven set, i.e., anything non-classical, you should practice with that first.

Most rips require at least some metadata editing. And the easiest way to do that is employing a dedicated metadata editor like mp3Tag. Yes, there's a bit of a learning curve (that's why you start with something easy), but it's an extremely powerful program that allows you to manipulate and standardize metadata however you need to to get the organization and playback experience you want.

So...a few notes:

1. Plan on using an editor like mp3Tag on ALL your files to fix the metadata. The online databases are seldom 100% correct, and not even close with classical music.
2. Use ripping profiles in dBpoweramp. Again, a bit of a learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, custom profiles can do a lot of the work for you. When I'm doing a big project like your Beethoven set, I create a profile specific to that set. That way, I can "pre-standardize" what should be consistent in the metadata, and I can organize the files and folders properly as I go along. (That's huge with those very large sets.)
3. Once you've gotten the hang of using dBpoweramp profiles and an external editor, you have a lot of decisions to make when ripping classical music. Sorry, that's just the way it is. Most playback devices sort around the AlbumArtist tag, and if that tag isn't consistent on an album, they typically default to "Various Artists." So with classical, you have to decide who's the AlbumArtist. Is it the performer? The composer? The conductor? It can be whatever you want, but you have to choose and then make that tag consistent on all the files you want grouped into an "album."

Again, I strongly suggest you practice your metedata grooming skills on something easier, just until you familiarize yourself with how it all works. Then tackle some standalone classical recordings until you get a sense of how to manipulate those tags to get the experience you want with your playback devices. Then tackle that Beethoven set!

[BrodyBoy]

Before you start tagging the bigger collection you need to understand what BluOS supports.

Absolutely. Especially if BluOS is the only playback system you expect to use, knowing how it uses metadata will guide your editing choices.

I should have better emphasized that each system has its quirks in terms of what metadata it uses, or even recognizes. And it will even vary based on the codec you use. One thing I've learned to do, over the years, is future-proof my files by loading them up with lots of information. I include a lot of tags like PERFORMER, CONDUCTOR, STYLE, etc., even though the Sonos system I often use for playback doesn't use them. I also create my own tags, for the purpose of keeping some info with the file. (My reason for that is that I've largely abandoned the "album" concept with the classical portion of my library.)

To Wendell, the OP, I know this all sounds kind of overwhelming. If you hoped to rip that Beethoven set and then be able to navigate and play it as if you're just inserting the disc you want to play, I understand your disappointment. It takes a lot of time and effort to get where you want to go. But on the other hand, if you want to take the dive, learning how to rip your music library in an organized, manageable way is really rewarding, both as a hobby and as a fantastic new way to access your music.

A couple final thoughts:
- You don't need to delete ripped files when the metadata isn't right. You can just edit the metadata.
- Again, I cannot overstate how much more complex all this becomes with classical music...and with big sets...with dozens of different artists, lol. Please start with something easier!

[wendell]

Thanks to you both. Yes, a bit more overwhelming that I had hoped.

What's interesting is one of those albums that I ripped first comes up as 100 Greatest Symphonies (even after changing the metadata before ripping the second time) which I assume was where these 2 symphonies come from but yet the cover art image that comes up is the picture of the box set from Deutsche Gramophone. You would think if they get the cover art right the metadata would follow or vice versa,

How do you edit the metadata after ripping?

[BrodyBoy]

You would think if they get the cover art right the metadata would follow or vice versa.

No, not at all. It's not like there's a single, accurate metadata file out there for each recording. The online databases are a mish-mash of tags that come from a bunch of sources, varying wildly in quality & accuracy. When a recording has appeared on a variety of releases (especially common with classical music), you're more likely than not to get that annoying mix of results like you've experienced.

How do you edit the metadata after ripping?

Ah, this is the heart of your journey! And the solution to the above problem. If you just need to tweak the info in a file, you can pull up its file info on your computer and change it there. But much more often, you'll want to edit for an entire album, or even a set or larger set of files. (I've edited 100s of files at a time.)

As I mentioned earlier, a dedicated metadata editor is the only way to go. There are few good ones out there, and others users may chime in with their recommendations, but I'll again suggest mp3Tag. Even though it's a very powerful program that's actively supported by its developer, it's actually free (with donations encouraged)! I've used it so much and for so long that I voluntarily pay for it every couple years.

Basically, with an editor, you can load a whole set of files (typically an album, but it be whatever files you want), and apply edits to either selected file(s) or the entire set. To get the navigation & info display experience you want, it's important that certain tags be consistent, and editing in a window where you can see everything makes this so much easier. You can change or add virtually any of the information or art.



One really nice feature is that basic editing is easy & intuitive...you can pick it up and be productive very quickly. I strongly suggest you play around with a few straightforward pop albums to familiarize yourself with the program. The true power of the program, though, is in its more advanced functions, particularly default and custom macros (called "Actions). I won't lie, there's a definite learning curve. But if you really want to get into this "digitizing my music" hobby, you'll have fun unlocking the program's features and probably become obsessive about grooming your tags to perfection, lol. A dedicated editor like mp3Tag is the only way to go.

[BrodyBoy]

Hey Wendell, I posted a specific reply to your last post, but it's showing on my end as "Unapproved," whatever that means. Perhaps because I included a link and a screenshot? In any event, I'll wait and see if it gets approved and displayed before editing it and trying again.

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Simbun referenced this earlier, but if BluOS is your principle playback system, you need to know what tags it uses and how.

According to the BluOS site, its tag support is limited to:

TITLE
ARTIST
ALBUM
ALBUMARTIST
TRACK
GENRE
DISCNUMBER
COVER

This is because metadata and playback devices are geared toward pop music, where recording conventions are based on a set of discrete songs by a single artist on a named album. Classical music recordings seldom conform well to these conventions, so getting an elegant navigation & display experience is quite challenging when you have just a few ill-fitting tags to work with. It's doable, but requires a creative, out-of-the-box approach to your classical library. (Hint: forget the concept of "album" as you know it, and make "albumartist" your new best friend )

[wendell]

Hey Wendell, I posted a specific reply to your last post, but it's showing on my end as "Unapproved," whatever that means. Perhaps because I included a link and a screenshot? In any event, I'll wait and see if it gets approved and displayed before editing it and trying again.

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It is showing up. Thank you so much!