Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

[artisan002]

So, I've been looking the FAQs and forums and have yet to find anything specifically addressing this "problem" I've encountered.

Here's the setup: I'm setting up to encode three formats at once; no big deal, on the upfront. But, there is the DSP tab in the main window of the app, and there is a space for DSPs on each of the encoder's Settings page. The trick to this is that I have some DSP functions between all the encoders that will be identical (I have some HDCD discs to deal with, etc). So, why waste time and processing effort for tripling a function that could be made to happen once?

Here's the question: Will DSPs put into the common DSP tab on dBpoweramp have an effect on each of the individual encoders? Since it's a linear path of processing under normal modes, I would imagine they would, though logically ahead of anything plugged into the individual encoders. But, if so, that would also mean some DSPs won't work as desired or possibly even at all. Mainly, I just don't want to rip a bunch of stuff and discover after a moment that I've been doing something wrong and wasting my time. (I've already spent a ridiculous amount of time sorting out the best LUFS settings for Replay Gain -- and still feel I'm missing some data)

Details on this will also help me know what DSPs I can even make appropriate use of in that area. (case in point: I've so far failed to get "Replay Gain (apply)" to work on already rendered files via Batch Convert)

Also, I can't begin to properly express how grateful I am for this function in dBpoweramp. Even just from cursory tests, I know this will save me sooo much time.


Thanks as always.

[mville]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

Will DSPs put into the common DSP tab on dBpoweramp have an effect on each of the individual encoders? Since it's a linear path of processing under normal modes, I would imagine they would, though logically ahead of anything plugged into the individual encoders. But, if so, that would also mean some DSPs won't work as desired or possibly even at all. Mainly, I just don't want to rip a bunch of stuff and discover after a moment that I've been doing something wrong and wasting my time.

No, I don't think so. When using Multi Encoder, I believe you have to configure each encoder separately.

I've already spent a ridiculous amount of time sorting out the best LUFS settings for Replay Gain -- and still feel I'm missing some data

The default LUFS target volume in Replay Gain is fine.

[artisan002]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

Well, I found some spare time (kind of rare for me, lately) and created a custom Multi Encoder testing profile. I set it up to encode FLAC (uncompressed) and WMA Pro (24 bit VBR), with HDCD and Replay Gain (Apply) DSPs in the main application's DSP tab; I also added silence trim on both encoders to eliminate digital zeroes from the start of the tracks, followed by Replay Gain set to -18 and -15 LUFS respectively.

The result: It does work..! I can at least verify at this time that the HDCD DSP plugin worked at least to the point that it made for a 24 bit FLAC file (WMA Pro wouldn't have been obvious). I've not yet re-ripped everything minus the gain boost. That's coming up in a minute. First to see how audibly different the first two rips are.

[artisan002]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

I'm rerunning the test as I failed to check my settings for the gain boost and left it calculating as track gain rather than album. I've already learned how much I don't want that. But, it does seem to have worked. I'll also pull the Replay Gain off the individual encoders, too. Those seemed to have worked as well, though.

[Spoon]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

DSP Effects are processed in the main converter before the dsp effects are processed on multi-encoder.

[artisan002]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

Yup. I just got through working that out. (I spent so long typing it out, the forum timed me out. LOL!)

An excellent way to design that, by the way. And thank you, too. That feature is about to save me so much work in archiving my CD collection, and also reduce my chance of botching a setting somewhere.

[mville]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

DSP Effects are processed in the main converter before the dsp effects are processed on multi-encoder.

Spoon, to confirm, when Rip to is [Multi Encoder], global DSP's are processed, global Path and Naming are ignored and CDRipper Options are applied to all encoders?

[garym]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

Just as an aside, I assume you do realize that ReplayGain (apply) produces files that are no longer lossless (bitperfect) back to the original CD. In my own case, and most people I know, we add ReplayGain tags (both album and track) and then rely on our PLAYERS to read the tags to modify the volume (and we do NOT use ReplayGain (apply)). In my case my player automatically uses ALBUM tags when playing an entire album or TRACK tags when playing a random mix from different albums. I use LUFS -18 by the way.

Folks I know that use ReplayGain (apply) are typically creating lossy files such as mp3 or aac for use in a car or some player where the player is unable to read and use the replaygain tags.

[artisan002]

Re: Multi Encoder mode and DSP placement

Regarding ReplayGain (Apply), I'm very aware. However, ReplayGain of any sort has yet to be a fully adequate solution for evening loudness in some one-off cases I have to deal with. It's still relative to the original media, though not as harshly imbalanced as with Volume Normalization.

Where I'm having to concern myself with ReplayGain (Apply) is in isolated cases of some albums from this odd period between 1987 and early 1989 where everything was easily 6 dB quieter than CDs before of after. Think of a proper inversion of the Loudness War. Now, the story I've read [and lacked a way to truly verify] indicates that it was an attempt to compensate for D/A converters of the time being inadequate for the job and introducing distortion as the PCM file got closer to -0 dB Full Scale. So, as the story goes, the solution was to simply produce quieter albums and let you run the analog circuit's volume up after the fact. Whatever the case, I have a small collection of CDs, a few of which were branded as audiophile grade, that are unusually quiet in full, and ReplayGain tagging has so far failed to account for them correctly. Interestingly enough, I also find that these recordings also come off as somewhat desaturated. So, I've had a passing suspicion that whoever were in charge of mastering these few albums were simply lazy and ran a single master that was was accounting for vinyl (or maybe tape) only and never developed an adjusted one for CD.

Getting back to the point, these albums have odd dynamics and so far no ReplayGain system has managed to handle them evenly compared to other CDs, though r128 gets closer than any others. Additionally, HDCD encoded discs are often 6 dB quieter than their 16 bit counterparts; but boosting them (even in dBpoweramp's HDCD plug-in) by those 6 dBs kills a lot of the nuance gained by the finer dynamic range. And, again, ReplayGain tagging doesn't quite get the job done. So, the only solution that has so far managed to work is a simple boost of no more than 3 dB on those few CDs, in addition to ReplayGain tags.