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C2, Drive and encoding questions

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  • JustaNewUser

    • Sep 2011
    • 35

    C2, Drive and encoding questions

    Hi there, I am starting out with dBpoweramp coming from EAC and am impressed by the features and ease of use but have a few questions.

    First off I went through the set up using the excellent set-up guide http://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper-setup-guide.htm (side note it does not mention the "8KB Transfers" yet).

    Well upon using a C2 Test CD (as mentioned in the guide) my two older (2004 and 2008) drives (TSSTcorp CDDVDW SE-S224Q Samsung USB Drive and HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4242N Hitachi LG Laptop-Slim Drive) both register C2 errors as they should about 1/4 or 1/3 into reading the disc.
    With the same CD testing for C2, on my new PC the internal BluRay drive LG Electronics BD-RE BH10LS30 shows a C2 error immediately (without even the progress bar showing up!). The drive is in a new (much faster PC) but I guess the drive does not correctly support C2 then? Or could it be that a faster PC with a new drive is more sensitive or reads the CD that quick or catches more C2 errors? It is kinda hard to belive that a drive from 2010 with new technology can't do what a (slim Laptop-drive!) from 2004 could easily do. Especially because if I check under Options and go to CD ROM and then click Technical: it shows C2 as given!
    Can I at least be sure that, when I test for the drive cache, it will show 100% (or at least very very likely) the correct cache size?

    On the side: it would really be great if AccurateRip would not only include offsets but also info on C2, cache and features such as FUA as a consensus opinon...

    Speaking of Offset: it stated that it should use an error free CD to detect the Offset, since I had the C2 error-check disk in the drive, it used that, so I am a little worried and would like to know how to re do an Offset check...

    Oh and I am sure that it has been asked many times but: Who makes good drives anymore? (I mean Plextor now does not make their own drives anymore, I heard bad things about almost all others: Lite On, LG, Samsung etc...).
    I guess with AccurateRip we don't really need to worry (except maybe about speed) since we can verify the result, but seeing from your tests with different drives a certain NEC drive performed really terrible, but from the Forum here I could see that the best drives where somewhere in the 98% to 99% accurate range and some of the avg worse drives where "only" a few percent less.
    This accuracy would also be good in an AccurateRip database btw...

    I would also like to know how to enable or set up ripping to two different formats (flac and mp3) simultaneously, as I could not see any settings for this (and I would much perfer to just read the disc once instead of once for flac and once for mp3).

    I really think the settings and set up for dBpoweramt is great and straight forward. But when I set up the mp3 encoder it not only has the Quality setting but also an Encoding setting: Normal, Fast (Low Qual.), Slow (High Qual.) is that still used? I thought there used to be -vbr new and stuff but nowadays? I tried Normal and Slow (Slow was actually a bit faster suprisingly... at least with one song tested). So does this setting still apply (or merit being in the program?).

    With two drives on the same Computer, am I able to rip two different CDs at the same time? would I need to run two instances of dBPoweramp? Would this affect the quality at all (I mean it does all get verified by accuraterip but could the encoders get a "hickup" or something for instance when both instances encode at the same time)... and thus cause audible glitches? Would it even be possible to add a third (USB) Drive to rip and encode with three drives?
    Does it matter if you also use USB drives to rip in general? Is there any difference in the quality?

    And a little abstract question: should all drives be dampened? (cushioned or vibration minimized) with extra rubber feet (for external) or with vibe fixers (internal); does it matter??

    Sorry for all the questions but, since I will rip quite a large collection I really would like to do it once and be done with it than re do every few years (back in 2001 I thought mp3 128 CBR was the way to go!) so I would really make sure that all goes well, smooth and future proof this time (with the help of dBpoweramp and flac).

    Thanks a lot for your advice and help!
  • Spoon
    Administrator
    • Apr 2002
    • 44505

    #2
    Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

    >the drive does not correctly support C2 then?

    It does not if instantly detects the errors

    >Can I at least be sure that, when I test for the drive cache, it will show 100% (or at least very very likely) the correct cache size?

    Using a 2nd program you can get quite sure, I personally leave on 1024KB for my ripping

    >how to enable or set up ripping to two different formats (flac and mp3) simultaneously

    Use the Encoder 'Multi-Encoder'

    >is that still used?

    Yes still used

    > able to rip two different CDs at the same time? would I need to run two instances of dBPoweramp?

    Yes, Yes, a modern PC should have no issues with 2 drives

    >should all drives be dampened? (cushioned or vibration minimized) with extra rubber feet (for external) or with vibe fixers (internal); does it matter??

    Should not make a difference
    Spoon
    www.dbpoweramp.com

    Comment

    • JustaNewUser

      • Sep 2011
      • 35

      #3
      Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

      Thank you very, very much for your quick answer!

      Sorry that I seemed a bit paranoid but I really don't want to mess this up now...
      Should I worry about having a less than perfect (c2 error) disc in when it was gathering the offset info? Is there a way to reset it and run the test again?

      Regarding the Multi Encoder, I must have been blind, great that it is that easy.

      Do the mp3 settings (slow, normal, fast) really change the quality? (the speed difference seems to not exsist even on an old Pentium M 1500)

      You would leave the drive cache at 1024, so I can be sure that my drive does not have more (I always confuse this with the buffer which shows as 4MB). I then expect that this definetly does not change quality and might only decrease performance slightly (but hopefully no more than a few seconds not minutes)? So I can't go wrong with that?

      So if my new drive does not support c2, then would you recommend not using this drive? Would you perfer using a new quad core processor with a drive with no c2 or the same processor but with a USB-drive with c2? Does it really matter? I mean when all is said and done accuraterip will show that it was a perfect copy, right? Most of my discs are in mint condition anyway and from what I understand the only benefit from c2 comes from the speed (if the disc has scratches) to correct faulty data. Then again your own tests showed that a bad drive (for ex. the NEC) can mess up even with pretty much faultless tracks... so my that drive (LG) bad?

      With said quad core and ripping in 2 drives at once, I have to run two instances of dBpoweramp, right? If this is the case, when I rip 2 Cds at once, and also would like to encode them as flac and mp3, that would probably already max out 4 cores? Now I know that sometimes the ripper can rip faster than the encoder (so a smart program then often encodes 2 tracks or so at a time), with dBopoweramp and its support of multi cores that could (if it is not aware of a second instance running) lead to a doubling of the load-will this (besides performance issues) result in any audio artifacts (pops or gaps)?


      Oh and I asked if drives should be cushioned because many audioholics swear by putting spikes or different feet under everything (from loudspeakers to players...) and there it can make a difference. With ripping I don't know because it is just digital. Because my drives get quite loud and vibrate a bit (especially USB drives); and it always makes me wonder how a small disc spinning so fast can be read by a laser not touching it (like say a needle on vinyl), and still never loose the groove so to speak, even when spinning up and down and producing that much vibration and noise itself.

      Thanks again for your input.

      Comment

      • dbfan
        dBpoweramp Guru

        • Jan 2011
        • 937

        #4
        Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

        C2 does not effect offset detection.

        I would leave on normal for mp3

        No cd drive has more than 1024

        No pops or gaps will happen due to CPU encoding

        Comment

        • JustaNewUser

          • Sep 2011
          • 35

          #5
          Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

          Thanks for the info.
          So I can be safe that the cache does not matter, Ok. And I guess I don't have to worry about the offset...being incorrect.
          The encoding normal; wouldn't it be better to just take slow just to be sure you get the best quality (I mean I go VBR 0 anyway)? Or can that result in worse quality?
          If the encoding can never mess up (due to too many tasks of the cpu) how do audiable pops and stuff like that occur?
          What would you suggest drive wise? Older Samsung USB Burner-Reader with c2 but over usb with c2 turned on, or newer LG BluRay Burner-Reader with no (or incorrect) c2 with c2 turned off...?

          Thanks again for your info!

          Btw. it may be better if dBpoweramp does the setup of the c2 and offset seperatly (to not have the bad test cd in the drive with an offset test).

          Comment

          • JustaNewUser

            • Sep 2011
            • 35

            #6
            Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

            Hi again,
            I really like to get ripping (so to speak...)
            So any input to ease my worries would be greatly appriciated...

            "So I can be safe that the cache does not matter, Ok. And I guess I don't have to worry about the offset...being incorrect.
            The encoding normal; wouldn't it be better to just take slow just to be sure you get the best quality (I mean I go VBR 0 anyway)? Or can that result in worse quality?
            If the encoding can never mess up (due to too many tasks of the cpu) how do audiable pops and stuff like that occur?
            What would you suggest drive wise? Older Samsung USB Burner-Reader with c2 but over usb with c2 turned on, or newer LG BluRay Burner-Reader with no (or incorrect) c2 with c2 turned off...? "

            Thanks again!

            Comment

            • Spoon
              Administrator
              • Apr 2002
              • 44505

              #7
              Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

              If you want the best quality mp3 use CBR 320. It is not possible for encoding to mess up due to CPU load, it is not a real-time operation.

              Makes no difference which drive is used if AccurateRip verifies the result.
              Spoon
              www.dbpoweramp.com

              Comment

              • JustaNewUser

                • Sep 2011
                • 35

                #8
                Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                Thanks for the very quick response.
                So "Slow" encoding doesn't do anything really?
                And how did I ever get some nasty pops into my old mp3s I always thought if the encoder lags due to some other operation performed by the cpu that is real bad?
                I also noticed a small issue with the settings: if you select ultra secure the program defaults to much more readings than your superb setup guide. Have things changed or is your setting better (no c2: Minimum Ultra Passes: 2 Maximum Ultra Passes: 4 End After Clean Passes: 2)?

                Comment

                • Spoon
                  Administrator
                  • Apr 2002
                  • 44505

                  #9
                  Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                  Pops might have come from Ripping, not the encoding, dBpoweramp is a secure ripper so would inform if errors.
                  Spoon
                  www.dbpoweramp.com

                  Comment

                  • JustaNewUser

                    • Sep 2011
                    • 35

                    #10
                    Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                    Great, and what setting would you go with in the Ultra secure mode, your (albeit a little older set up guide settings) or the default settings in dBpoweramp?
                    Oh and if you use HDCD I take it that it would work with flac in saving the extra bits but with the mp3 you would get the normal cd bitrate, but no less (a while back while it was in beta foobar actually made mp3s sound a little worse).
                    Replay gain is great to also add in the tags, will poweramp include an Album gain as well later?

                    Comment

                    • JustaNewUser

                      • Sep 2011
                      • 35

                      #11
                      Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                      Oh and next to those last three question one more final! question :smile2:
                      what do you personally think would be the better ripper: Samsung TSSTcorp CDDVDW SE-S224Q (ext. USB) or either LG Electronics BD-RE BH10LS30 or LG Electronics BDDVDRW CH10LS20.
                      I saw that you can view the accuracy of the drives from accuraterip (i sadly can't)...
                      So thanks for answering those last 4 question you are a great help!

                      Comment

                      • JustaNewUser

                        • Sep 2011
                        • 35

                        #12
                        Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                        So any thoughts?

                        Comment

                        • JustaNewUser

                          • Sep 2011
                          • 35

                          #13
                          Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                          I just saw that in the mp3 encoder settings under Advanced: you can set the channels to auto or 2 'stereo' [auto]
                          So that means that lame is set to stereo as default, is that correct/normal? I thought there was a huge discussion (hydrogen audio etc) that joint stereo was the way lame handled encoding since it can only improve quality/performance if implemented right (it lends more bits to the channel with the more difficult parts).

                          Comment

                          • JustaNewUser

                            • Sep 2011
                            • 35

                            #14
                            Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                            Hello again, I just noticed when trying to multi encode it won't. I just get flac files not mp3s even i have added and set it up...
                            why is that?
                            and can I now go and just convert from flac to mp3 without worrying about any quality loss?

                            Forget it I overlooked that the output settigns have to be set for each encoder! Silly me...
                            If I now could just figure out how to only have one cover art .jpg in the folder instead of one for each! track but still embed the cover art in each track...
                            Last edited by JustaNewUser; September 16, 2011, 05:16 PM.

                            Comment

                            • dbfan
                              dBpoweramp Guru

                              • Jan 2011
                              • 937

                              #15
                              Re: C2, Drive and encoding questions

                              Joint stereo is the default

                              Comment

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