CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

After time spent reading and re-reading posts on this forum and elsewhere, and a fair bit of web research, I decided to heed the experts' advice! I now have a Plextor model PX230A SW-BL on order, having chosen this model because it tops the "CD/DVD Drive Accuracy List 2008". I assume this model supports C2 pointers?

I would prefer to retain my existing TS-H532C DVD drive within my desktop PC, so instead I have decided to mount this new ODD in an external 5.25" USB 2.0 Drive Enclosure. Several options are available... eg Rock 5.25" USB 2.0 Enclosure, Belkin F5U209uk USB 2.0 Hi-Speed Ext Drive Encl, and the Vantec NexStar NST-530U2 5.25" IDE to USB 2.0 Optical Drive External Enclosure. I have very limited shelf space, and cannot easily accomodate the horizontal Rock, and I saw somewhere on CDFreaks.com a reviewer who said it has "a very bad chipset" or words to that effect. And anyway I like the look of the NexStar, now my favoured option. It is designed to sit upright on its flat edge, which is ideal for me.

As detailed earlier in this thread... I am purchasing this ODD specifically for best CD Ripping error performance. Accuracy, and not speed is my goal! Burning performance is entirely irrelevant for me. At http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Revi...18184&PageID=3 the reviewer writes down its speed and "discourage[s] users from buying this device until this problem is fixed". But it looks to be a cracking little box and I think would suit me just fine.

Before I take the plunge and order one up (assuming I can find one with a UK power module), does anyone have any comments +ve or -ve about using the PX-230A with dBpoweramp via a USB 2.0 connection rather than a direct internal IDE interface within the PC itself?

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

Correction! It's the Belkin, not the Rock, that is reputed to have a "bad chipset". Sorry for error.

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

Having been away since my last post, and with a brand new PX230A due to arrive here on Monday, would anyone care to comment on my previous post re a suitable USB 2.0 enclosure for it?

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

THIRD DRIVE
Now some two months on from my first tests with two optical drives and dBpoweramp software, I have just installed a brand new Plextor PX-230A CD-RW into a Rock 5.25" USB 2.0 Enclosure. Audio CDs play OK via MediaMonkey, and a Beatles CD rip using CD Ripper matched with an Accuraterip confidence level of 200. This ODD was selected for two reasons. First as a last ditch (and costly) effort to read Tracks 5 & 6 of my Berlioz Te Deum CD without errors. But mainly because it tops Spoon's "CD-DVD Drive Accuracy List 2008".

Correction Offset
Set at +738 by the Configuration wizard, this agrees with the "Accuraterip CD Drive Offsets" table.

C2 Error Pointers
Despite the fact that my research led me to believe this drive definitely uses C2 Error Pointers, attempts to [Detect C2 Error Pointers], initiate a very long time "Reading until C2 error detected..." pane, showing no movement at all in the progress bar. Eventually I get a "Unable to read CD drive, audio CD in drive?" message, followed by "C2 error pointers were not detected, either the CD has no scratches, or the drive does not detect error pointers." As per the Setup Guide, the CD used for this test is a Lenny Kravitz freebie disc, modified with the black triangular wedge added together with lots of deep scores added for good measure! Reference to the "DAE Drive Features database" reveals three entries for the PX-230A. In order, the entries display:
Firmware: 1.03/All versions/1.03
Accurate Stream: Yes/Yes/Yes
Caching: Yes/Yes/Yes
C2 Errors: Yes/Yes/Yes
HTOA: Yes/No/No
Overread: Lead In/None/None

I have Firmware v1.00 on my drive, manufactured in December 2004.

So some agreement between other users esp re Accurate Stream, Caching and C2 Errors.

Q1) Any PX-230A owner care to say which version they agree with based on their experience?
Q2) Anyone know where & how I can update to v1.03 FW (if this is to be advised)?
Q3) 8KB Transfers (C2 Pointers over USB/Firewire) check box -- check or uncheck for my USB 2.0 connected IDE drive? As there is some confusion about my drive's C2 Error Pointer status, I am not quite sure how to interpret Spoon's replies to talicea's very recent post on this check box.
Q4) Typically how long for this damaged CD test to show a result -- are we talking a few minutes or ages?
Q5) What could I be doing wrong with my dBpoweramp configuration that fails to detect C2 Error Pointers?

Caching
Running CacheExplorer 0.8 reveals
Drive on K is PLEXTOR CD-R PX-230A 1.00
[+] Buffer size: 2048KB, read cache is enabled
[+] Supported read command: BEh
[+] Testing cache line size: 25KB/11 sectors 59/26 32/14 68/30 71/31 119/52 11/5 39/17 82/36 94KB/41 Sectors
Clicking [Test FUA Support] gets "FUA does not appear to clear the drive cache, so will not be used. Test time without FUA:2600ms Test time with FUA: 3656ms".
Q6) I thought a major benefit of Plextor is that it can use this FUA feature? I have a feeling that this model may actually be a re-badged BenQ though.

Other Issues
* dBpoweramp seems to not be so keen on running with this USB connected drive. It often crashes "Not responding", having to be re-started.
* The application's software Eject button does not seem to achieve much! Drive goes busy, LED flashes on/off and it clicks noisily. The app crashes!

Summary
With Drive Cache set to the "no brainer" setting of 1024KB, and without using C2 Error Pointers, a whole series of discs, rock, classical and newspaper freebie discs have been successfully ripped. Accuraterip database results vary according to the material, but at least all rips are Secure, and done very quickly. And now to the crunch objective...
my suspect Berlioz Te Deum CD gave the following result:-
Track 1 Accurate (4)
Track 2 Accurate (4)
Track 3 Accurate (3)
Track 4 Accurate (4)
Track 5 Accurate (4) ... first time this track has been ripped error free.
Track 6 Inaccurate (3) (Pass 1&2, Ultra 1 to 4, Re-rip 1527 frames).
This is my best result to date so the new drive is definitely a big improvement. Maybe I need to admit defeat on Track 6 and replace what is increasingly looking like a duff disc.

Apart from answers (feel free to be brief, referring to questions by number, or by cutting and pasting), does any dBpoweramp guru or enthusiast care to offer this CD ripping newbie advice on how to optimise my configuration to best fit this Plextor drive?

My confidence is growing, I feel I am very close... just need the final push to optimise the settings!

[Spoon]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

When detecting c2 it should take no more than a few minutes, the progress bar should progress whilst detecting. It will be the USB enclosure which is stopping the c2 from working. You could try the 8kb over usb option.

FUA will not work with 230a, as it is a rebadged Benq.

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

Thanks Spoon, I also reckoned a few minutes would be enough to detect C2 Support, so something is clearly wrong! Checked "8KB USB Transfers" box, clicked on "Detect C2 Support". After about 15 minutes, with no sign of progress shown on the bar, same error messages as before. So I guess the USB Enclosure must be the problem. Ditto re Eject button malfunction I suspect!

OK re FUA, you just confirmed my own BenQ suspicion.

I am still further ahead now than with my two original drives -- just successfully ripped another classical CD while typing this with an Accuraterip confidence per track of 19 minimum. So I now face the final throw of the dice -- replace the PC's internal TSST Corp TS-H352C with the Plextor PX-230A to eliminate the USB box as the potential C2 issue. If successful, I can always stick the TSST drive into the Rock case to keep it available for use.

Q) How important do you feel it is to move up to firmware v1.03?

[Spoon]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

I cannot honestly say.

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

OK Spoon, point taken re firmware! Can anyone else comment on the importance of moving to v1.03 based on their own experience? Might be academic anyway as I have failed to find a download source for v1.03!

Moving on, and thanks to Spoon's ongoing advice, I can now report REAL PROGRESS! The new PX-230A is now internal to my Dell 9150. It was actually very much easier to carry out this drive swap than I expected. In fact I could not believe how easy Dell's case design made this task.
Some major milestones:-
dBpoweramp no longer stalls/crashes frequently. It's perfectly stable.
The software Eject button does "exactly what it says on the tin." I guess the USB 2.0 Enclosure added some undesirable side issues!

But of most significance, the [Detect C2 Support] test with the deliberately badly damaged disc actually delivered a positive result in a matter of minutes, the progress bar advancing as it gets there! After two months, and a lot of expense and effort, this result is EXCELLENT! So I now have C2 Error Pointers working at last!

As for the troublesome Berlioz Te Deum disc... well, Tracks 1 to 4 rip fine, Track 5 struggles a bit but eventually gets there, but sadly Track 6 is a "red X Error" with Track Ripped Insecurely. Errors & Information pane states "Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 183628 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 210855). Notably, as the Track 5 Pass 1 rip reaches 63% (and it's consistent), ripping speed drops very low, to x8 or even as low as 2.8!

I am now into the end game with this disc, but some fine-tuning of configuration settings is being complicated by some conflicting advice from the Illustrate website.

CD Ripper Setup Guide states:-
If your drive supports C2 pointers, set as...
Minimum Ultra Passes: 1
Maximum Ultra Passes: 2
End After Clean Passes: 1
Individual Bad Frames/Maximum Re-reads: 60

But CD Ripper: Secure & Advanced Options states:-
Drive Supports C2 Error Pointers well...
Minimum Ultra Passes: 1
Maximum Ultra Passes: 6
End After Clean Passes: 1

Drive Supports C2, but badly...
Minimum Ultra Passes: 2
Maximum Ultra Passes: 6
End After Clean Passes: 2
Individual Bad Frames/ Maximum Re-reads (could be) up to 700.

Now this leads me to wonder if Track 6 is aborting early because I am not giving the software enough chances to error correct!

For the record, here are ALL my current "Plextor" Profile settings:-
dBpoweramp CD Ripper: Options
Ripping Method -- Secure (Recover Errors): selected
AccurateRip -- Query Ripping Results with AccurateRip: checked
Meta Data: set at defaults
CD ROM -- Drive E: [PLEXTOR - CD-R PX-230A ]
-- Eject after Rip: not checked
-- Ripping Speed: (Maximum)
-- Spin-up Time: (none)
-- Spin-down After: (default)
-- Sample Offset: +738 (confirmed as correct)
-- Read into Lead-in or Lead-out: not checked
-- Communication: SCSI Pass Through (SPT)
-- Prevent auto-run on all CD drives: checked
-- Prevent Detection of Hidden First Track: not checked

Now clicking on [Secure Settings] brings up 2nd pane
Pass 1 -- AccurateRip Verified
Pass 2 -- Limit Drive Speed: (Maximum), but ghosted out as it's not used if C2 is enabled
Ultra Secure
-- Enable Ultra Secure Ripping: checked
-- Minimum Ultra Passes: 1
-- Maximum Ultra Passes: 2
-- End After Clean Passes: 1
-- Vary Drive Speed each Pass: checked
-- Individual Bad Frames/Maximum Re-reads: 60
-- Set Drive Speed: (Maximum)
Drive Read Cache: 1024KB
Clear Read Cache with FUA: not checked
C2 Error Pointers for Error Detection: checked
8KB Transfers (C2 Pointers over USB/Firewire): not checked
Secure Rip Abort
-- After Unrecoverable Frames: 1 frame
-- When Have to Re-Rip: 100 frames
-- After Ripping a track for: 10 minutes
Interpolate Unrecoverable Frames: not checked
Mark Track as Error if Insecure: checked
Secure Extraction Log
-- Report Contents: Simple
-- Write to File: checked
-- Log Filename: as default
-- Add to Information Log: checked

Only fine-tuning is now left as an option. I should be grateful if someone, esp Spoon, could take the time to review my entries, and simply copy and paste them back to me with any suggested changes highlighted in red (if there is an easy way to do this when posting?).

I am already resigned to purchase of a new copy of the Berlioz disc, although surfing suggests that may not prove too easy.

I would prefer to close off this lengthy discussion thread with the best possible configuration for this brand new computer-mounted Plextor drive. Closure may also help other newbies have confidence that dBpoweramp has to be the Ripper software of choice, and that perseverance will pay dividends.

PS: Just tried again with Max Bad Frame Re-reads upped from 60 to 700, with identical "red X Error" results for Track 6. Oh dear!

PPS: The TS-H532C seems to be working OK in its new Rock USB 2.0 Enclosure!

[Spoon]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

My findings with the 230a, rarely does it need 60x re-reads to recover, either it does or does not recover in a few frames.

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

OK Spoon, will revert back to 60 Re-reads Max. Before I wrap this discussion, would you be kind enough to comment on my settings as you are obviously familiar with this drive model. Particularly on the three Ultra Secure number of Passes settings?

[Spoon]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

They seem ok to me.

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

OK Spoon. Ultra Passes set to 1,2 & 1 with Individual Bad Frames at 60, probably higher than it actually needs to be.

Incidentally, while my TSST Corp TS-H532C initially functioned OK when transferred into the Rock 5.25" USB 2.0 box, it had magically disappeared from My Computer and Device Manager on next boot. Apparently this is a known Microsoft bug when an ODD is swapped in such a box, in my case from the Plextor PX-230A now inside my desktop, to the TS-H532C I removed from the desktop. A little utility called cdgone.exe made some registry changes which instantly restored its functionality in XP.

I have today successfully located and ordered a new (mint condition) Berlioz Te Deum CD which should arrive in the next few days. I have to be quietly optimistic that this copy will let dBpoweramp rip ALL its tracks, incl Track 6!

Now within a whisker of wrapping this lengthy thread. Will report final outcome ASAP for completeness. I do hope others have found this CD Ripping project's development of interest?

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

New Berlioz CD has arrived... first the good news! All six tracks now rip successfully first time, but not with the result I expected. dBpoweramp stated that my original disc was in the AccurateRip database, and ripped thus:-
Track 1 Accurate (4)
Track 2 Accurate (4)
Track 3 Accurate (3)
Track 4 Accurate (4)
Track 5 Accurate (4)
Track 6 Inaccurate (3) (Pass 1&2, Ultra 1 to 4, Re-rip 1527 frames).

After a great deal of trial and error, I concluded that Track 6 must have a fatal error.

dBpoweramp also states that the replacement disc is in the database, then rips it as follows:-
Track 1 Red X AR (4) green tick Secure
Track 2 Red X AR (4) green tick Secure
Track 3 Red X AR (3) green tick Secure
Track 4 Red X AR (4) green tick Secure
Track 5 Red X AR (4) green tick Secure
Track 6 Red X AR (3) green tick Secure
This implies that although the material is in the database, there are no matches. All tracks are shown as Secure after {Pass 1 + Ultra Pass 1}, so the rip itself is fine. Conclusion... different pressing? The new CD as supplied was definitely brand new, never used, still sealed in its cellophane wrapper. Every last detail on the jewel case and booklet matched to the nth degree, including all the wee manufacturer reference numbers. At first glance, it has to be exactly the same disc again. Except for one difference... old disc "Made in UK", new disc "Made in West Germany"!

Spoon, just for completeness and to finally wrap this thread, can you please explain what it is that makes these two disc subtly different, leading to this AccurateRip database discrepancy?

And more to the point... if I later submit my new rip data to the database, does this get entered as a new entry for the same album such that if another Berlioz fan were to rip the "West Germany" pressed version, this time they would get a match to me? I am sure I am not the only one who would like to fully understand the process!

My conclusion: My original Berlioz Te Deum was actually duff all the time, but served as a catalyst to improve my ripping hardware and to fine-tune dBpoweramp's settings for best ripping perfomance.

Thanks to all for their patience as I worked towards a solution.

[Spoon]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

It is a different pressing, the discs have different inbuilt offsets. Your new pressing would go in the database when someone else verifies it.

[BigN]

Re: CD Spec vs Ripper Configuration

Great Spoon... sounds like a wrap to this thread then!
Best regards
Norrie