dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

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Hi,

I have read up everything I can find on offsets and reading into lead-in and lead-out and how to check whether my drive supports it.

EAC says the drive does.
dbpoweramp does not complain unless I ask for the pop up log. When I get that log and have it turned on, it says my drive cannot read into the lead-out and I must uncheck the option.

The drive is an LG-H55N. Offset is set to +102 as indicated by AccurateRip. If I am correct, this means lead-in reading is not necessary.

AccurateRip gets a confirmation for either rip, as expected, because as I understand it it is checking up to just before the last few samples to compensate for drives which cannot read the lead-out.

but using Beyond Compare I can see a difference in the files for the last track. I have compared several cds this way and this is the first to show this result on the last track.

In the rip with read into lead-in or lead-out *off*, I see only zeros after a certain point.

The rip with the option *on* shows small amounts of data right up to the end of the file.

The files are byte-size identical, which leads me to believe the first (non-lead-out) version has been padded with zeros to be the correct size.

Am I correct that dbpoweramp has made a mistake, this drive *can* read into the lead-out (and has done so, but for some reason dbpoweramp thinks it did not,) and the rip with the lead-out set to on is the correct rip?

Or am I wrong, and that data is garbage from trying to read into the lead-out on a drive which cannot do it? If this is the case, why not on more discs?

Is there potential for ripping problems with dbpoweramp if this option is enabled and the drive cannot do it? I would prefer to leave it on if there will be the occasional disc losing end of track data on the last track without it.

I suspect the other discs do not have any data in the lead out, which is why they match completely (they are also byte-size identical whether the option is on or off, but they are also 100% content identical.)

Thanks in advance.

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Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

I thought this might help. Here's an image capture showing the additional data from Beyond Compare.

The content highlighted is the extra content which was all zeros in the file which was ripped with 'read lead-out' set to *off*.



As you can see, it is very consistent with the data that came before. Which leads me to suspect even more strongly that the drive is delivering the correct data for those samples when 'read lead-out' is set to *on*, and dbpoweramp is padding with zeros if it is said to *off*.

In addition, I ripped the track another 2 times with 'read lead-out' set to *on* and compared all the files. They were identical each time, all having the same CRC in dbpoweramp, and the same additional data. I don't know if this means anything. It might be that the same garbage data is being returned each time.

[Spoon]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

If lead out reading is unchecked the program will not attempt and fill with 0's
If it is checked and the drive cannot read (as shown by the log), the program retries and scales back into the normal cd area, zeros are added to teh end.

So both methods (if you see '** Drive is unable to read into lead out, uncheck over-read option.') will give zeros on the end.

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Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

Thanks for the reply.

Okay, so there is no problem having it checked if the drive does not actually support it (I don't know how to find out for sure, since dbpoweramp and EAC disagree on this.) If it is not supported I get the same output as if it was off, if it is.

But this file is definitely not padded with zeros despite the log report saying over-read into lead-out not supported.

The other file, instead of a few lines of data, has a single line which is very long and contains the same number of "characters" (I know this is binary data really) which are all zero samples.



the line is much longer than that, it's just all that fitted in the window.

There are zero samples at the end of this file but definitely not zero samples at the end of the one with read lead-out checked, which means they did not both fill with zeros.

The logical deduction to me is that the data was read from the lead-out.

I decided to rip the same track with EAC (which says I can read into the lead-out) with overread both on and off, and "fill with zero samples" on and off.

First the results of comparing those:

1. Rip with fill and no over-read does not match rip with no fill and no over-read - there are zeros at the end of the filled one and no data in the unfilled one. This means EAC will only fill if asked (as expected.)

2. Rip with over-read and no fill matches rip with over-read and fill (no zero samples at end in either) meaning both got the same data from the over-read and performed no filling with zero samples because there was nothing to fill. All available data was read.

3. Rip with over-read both match rip with over-read in dbpoweramp.

4. Rip with no over-read and fill matches rip with dbpoweramp and no over-read

So both programs get the same results with the same settings, with the same differences between the files.

This added to what you said about dbpoweramp always filling with zeros if it cannot get the lead-out indicates to me that it did get the lead-out, but reported that it did not. There are no padded zero samples if I turn it on, only if I leave it off.

Thanks for your reply. I might not have thought to check EAC if I hadn't learned how dbpoweramp handles these situations, and the two results compared has convinced me that over-read should be on despite dbpoweramp claiming it should not.

My other drive does not support over-read, but if I get a chance I will try these rips on another that does and see if I get the same data again.

Now to get into my cd collection

[Spoon]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

We will be doing work in this area in the next 4 weeks, I am going to set a robot autoloader with a Plextor which cna overread to find some discs in my collection which have samples right to the end.

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

I believe I have run across this with some Deutsche Grammophone repackaged box sets. When you determine some tests or have some test code, I would like to evaluate those discs with whatever you come up with.

Phil

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

I've run accross this inconsistency on about six Deutsche Grammophone discs so far (Jochum and Karajan Bruckner boxed sets and Levine-Bartok).

• The last track will not give a consistent Checksum across drive models but the check sums are the same for all previous tracks.
• The last track gives different Checksums for drives that dbpoweramp says cannot read into the lead in and lead out when read into lead in or lead out is toggled.
• All drive models give a self consistent checksum across multiple instances of the same model drive on multiple re-rips with the same lead-in/out setting
• All drives are set for secure ripping and quit with the same number of ultra passes passes and no frame re-rips
• All of these discs are short total time so there is a band on the outside of the disc that has not been used
• There is no visible damage looking through a magnifier.
• All drives were tested with a different disc in accurate rip before and afterthis test to make sure the drive and dbpoweramp were working correctly

There are a total of TEN DIFFERENT check sums across five drive models which were:

PX-230
B900A
PX755/760
Plexwriter Premium
Samsung 183

Phil

[Spoon]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

Does the PX755 read into lead out?

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

Yes as far as I know.

The 755 and the 760 model drives give the same check sums consistently for lead/out toggled on and off. However, the checksums are different for "read into lead in/out" on vs. off. These drives seem to have the same chipset.

The 755 and 760 drives are on two different computers. Those matching checksums between the models 755 and 760 are the only case where the different drive models give the same check sums on the last track of these discs.

Phil

[Spoon]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

The premium, 755 and 760 should all give the same result as they even have the same offset.

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

I re ripped the last track with Plextor premium since I could have labeled the logs backwards.

With read into lead in lead out =NO the 755, 760 and Premium give the same same checksum

With read into lead in lead out = YES the 755 and 760 give the same value but the premium gives a different check sum.

All results were: Secure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1]

phil

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

Found another one and the CD is a 1992 Harmonia Mundi not repackaged DG like the others

This was a clean rip on all three drive models 230/755/B900. Only the last track is a mismatch but the last track gives six different checksums across the three drives toggling leadin/out. The second to last track gives six identical Checksums.


Phil

[Spoon]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

The 230a cannot overread for sure, your testing should be limited to drives which are known to overread: Premium, 755, 760.

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

OK so what does it mean to get the different checksums with "read into lead out" OFF across the four drives?

Phil

[pls1]

Re: dbpoweramp says drive cannot read into lead out; different results with it on

Plus if you are working on this as a "known bug" it doesn't have to be a high priority item just on my account. I'm putting these in my re-handle pile along with discs too damaged to rip.

I have at least 3500 plus CDs to go. I just want guidance on expectations.

Phil