Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

[kkhan]

Spoon/Anyone

I am a long standing user of Asset UPNP since v4; it is an exceptional product and I have never had to seek help from the forum. Unfortunately there is always a first time.

I am trying to use the gain replay feature for the first time, triggered by the purchase of a Yamaha MusicCast system, so that I can comfortably play jukebox selections.

It works very well except that for HiRes FLAC files it is hit and miss. Specifically:
1. All MP3s play normally (but of course, with gain replay applied)
2. All 16-bit, 44.1Khz FLAC files also play normally (of course, with either LPCM and WAV transcoding)
3. I cannot get 24-bit, 44.1Khz FLAC files to play - I get an error message "Unable to Play" on the Yamaha. I have tried two software DLNA players which I use for portable music(USB Audio Pro, Bubble uPNP) and several albums but they all give the same error. This happens with both LPCM and WAV transcoding. As an experiment I selected MP3 transcoding; same result!
4. I get much the same result with 24-bit, 96Khz FLAC files; except that one particular album did play correctly.

As an experiment I switched Gain Replay off and only selected transcoding to LPCM (and then WAV) for FLAC files. Same result. So it is not the Gain Replay but the transcoding which is causing the issue.

Without transcoding the MusicCast system play everything natively perfectly.

I ran all the HiRes albums against Lossless Audio Checker to check for stream errors. All were clean.

Appreciate any advise and guidance. Is the transcoding artwork size sensitive?

Thanks

KKhan

[mville]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

Please can you clarify a few things:

1. You only have a problem serving (some) 24-bit flac files from Asset?
2. Are all your problematic hi-res files, 2 channel (stereo)?
3. Why the reference to Gain Replay, if it makes no difference?
4. Does the Yamaha MusicCast NOT support flac, hence the need to transcode to LPCM/WAV?
5. Which version of Asset UPnP are you running and on which platform/OS?
6. Are your devices connected to your network using ethernet cables or are you using Wi-Fi?
7. Have you enabled the debug log for the "Unable to Play" tracks (tick Output Debug Log, in advanced settings).

Some players are artwork size sensitive. My OPPO BDP83-SE only displays artwork < 60kb.

[kkhan]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

Please can you clarify a few things:

1. You only have a problem serving (some) 24-bit flac files from Asset?
2. Are all your problematic hi-res files, 2 channel (stereo)?
3. Why the reference to Gain Replay, if it makes no difference?
4. Does the Yamaha MusicCast NOT support flac, hence the need to transcode to LPCM/WAV?
5. Which version of Asset UPnP are you running and on which platform/OS?
6. Are your devices connected to your network using ethernet cables or are you using Wi-Fi?
7. Have you enabled the debug log for the "Unable to Play" tracks (tick Output Debug Log, in advanced settings).

Some players are artwork size sensitive. My OPPO BDP83-SE only displays artwork < 60kb.

To your specific questions:
1. That is correct, I only have problems serving some 24-bit files
2. That is correct, the problematic files are exclusively hi-res 2-channel (stereo)
3. The reference to Gain Replay is because I am trying to achieve Volume Leveling when playing Jukebox selections; the requirement to transcode is a dependency for Gain Replay.
4. The Yamaha MusicCast supports everything (almost) including DSD. The need to transcode is purely to achieve volume leveling when playing jukebox selections. All the hires tracks in question play in their native format on the MusicCast without problems when served by Asset.
5. I am running V6.1 on Windows
6. Devices are all connected by Wifi ... but all audio served by Asset in native format (FLAC, 24bit FLAC, DSD, MP3 etc) play correctly and consistently on the MusicCast (and other clients)
7. I did enable the debug log but I did not really know how to interpret the log - when transcoding the files in question; the log captured it but did not throw up any errors. I can share it if appropriate.

I did read the thread about players being art work sensitive but not in my case as the MusicCast plays all files in their native formats without a hitch - my art work is 1000x1000 so falrly large; the only problem is when certain 24-bit files are transcoded by Asset and then served to the MusicCast - unless the transcode function in Asset itself is art work size sensitive. I did enable the art work resize fucntion but it made no difference.

Many thanks

[Spoon]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

Transcoded files do not contain tags or artwork. Perhaps enable Assets debug log, then try to play one of the files which gives the error, then post the log here please.

[mville]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

The obvious starting point here is to troubleshoot the network and rule out a potential wi-fi problem, as you state:
Devices are all connected by Wi-Fi

and post the debug log in this thread.

[kkhan]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

Spoon

Thanks. I am away from home on a business trip so I will post the log at the weekend

I have tested the wifi network and all my wifi connections are solid. The problems I am having are too consistent and repeatable to be down to connectivity issues.

[mville]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

I have tested the wifi network and all my wifi connections are solid. The problems I am having are too consistent and repeatable to be down to connectivity issues.

I am not saying the problem is down to the Wi-Fi, but I wouldn't rule this out, by making assumptions about certain aspects of your system.

Data throughput increases when streaming large audio and video files and may even be increased more, due to transcoding. Also, the fact that the problem is as you described Erratic for HiRes FLAC, suggests to me that you should at least rule out network issues.

All that is required is you temporarily connect your Windows PC and Yamaha MusicCast to the network, using ethernet cables. If the problem still occurs, then you can be pretty sure it is not the network.

[schmidj]

Re: Gain Replay Erratic for HiRes FLAC

One possibility if some tracks play "soft" is that dBpoweramp is calculating a lesser gain for the track because the desired playback level on some tracks would push the peaks into clipping, or that whatever calculated the replay gain if not dBpoweramp, behaved similarly. The dBpoweramp calculation of replay gain, at least in the case of EBU loudness, checks to make sure that the highest peaks would not clip, and if it would clip, applies less "gain" to avoid clipping, The peak that would have clipped may well be inaudible, a brief transient. But the lowered replay gain number may well be very audible as a quieter playback. If you look at the log after a CD is ripped in dBpoweramp, it will tell you if it was unable to apply the "correct" replay gain metadata because of a potential clipping problem. Not sure if you can do this with converter output.

I realize you said you say you checked for this, but I'd try starting with the original source material, make copies, and experiment. And "High Res" source material might possibly have more extraneous peaks, as it may have not had the application of a limiter often applied near the end of the processing to burn a 16 bit CD.