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Thread: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

  1. #46
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    For example, all rock and pop, is now a single Genre: Pop/Rock. Then I have Country, Folk, Jazz, Latin, World, Classical, Opera, and Christmas.
    I forgot that I also use Broadway, Soundtrack, Celtic and Cajun (because I also have lots of music in those general categories)
    Last edited by garym; 01-16-2021 at 09:17 AM.

  2. #47
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    Thumbs up Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    Yes. That's exactly what I do. I don't use SORT tags at all. I use ARTIST and ALBUM ARTIST only.
    ...
    I don't have to think about "The" in front of artist or album artist names, as all the software I use for playback is smart enough to show "The Doors" in the "D" range when browsing alphabetically, or "The Beatles" in the "B" range. I don't need sort tags for this.
    ...
    I should emphasize, that even after you think you have your naming string, genre/artist/albumartist/sort tag decisions all finalized and working, etc. You still need to rip a handful of CDs (of different types, various artist, multidisk, classical vs pop, etc. and then load these up on your server/player and see how things look and work in actual search/browse/playback mode. Experimentation and testing the results is KEY to creating a good ripping process.
    Thanks. Every time I think I've worked it all out, I seem to find something else that needs to be considered. I'm eager to start ripping my collection, but will test a few more things first just to be on the safe side.

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    Yes, I almost always change the GENRE manually on the CD ripper screen before ripping. 15 years ago or so when I started ripping I used maybe 30 or 40 genres (trying to be super specific) For example, I had Rock, Folk Rock, Country Rock, Rock-Live, Progressive Rock, Rockabilly, and I'm sure several more. Then I had various Pop categories. And lots of Jazz categories. And lots of country categories. But I've now simplified greatly and it makes things simpler (for me). For example, all rock and pop, is now a single Genre: Pop/Rock. Then I have Country, Folk, Jazz, Latin, World, Classical, Opera, and Christmas.
    I agree. For example, at what point does Rock become Classic Rock or Hard Rock? I really want to keep things as simple as possible!

  3. #48
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Hi Supernaut,

    I totally agree with everything that Gary says above, but do use sort tags and some of the Genre tags that he no longer uses as they benefit me and my family.

    We are all creating personal libraries, the one probable common goal of using dBpoweramp is having the confidence of knowing you have AccurateRips and being able to easily find a specific pressing of any artist, album and track.

    Together with a couple of friends we went about this in three ways - all work, but are specific for our needs. Taking David Bowie, one uses no sort tags, Artist - David Bowie, the other Artist - David Bowie and Album Artist - Bowie, David (in a folder B) and I use Artist - David Bowie, AristSort (not Artist Sort) - Bowie, David as I display and it is more natural for me to search by surname.

    As Gary's software does, mine can be set to "ignore" The in The Beatles and show it in B, but I also use ArtistSort (or AlbumArtistSort when there are multiple artists) - Beatles, The in case I ever change to a player that isn't as smart - plenty aren't!

    Two of use Folder.jpg and one uses embedded without a Folder.jpg. Because of the control app one uses, all of his discs have to go in one folder if he wants more than the first disc to play. We all chose a maximum art size of 1000x1000 pixels and 300x300KB file size. At the time a popular player had a max size of I believe 1024x1024 pixels and 320KB file size, so the decision was made on the nearest round numbers that maintained compatibility.

    We all use the original release date year for Year - some software can use this to display albums chronologically.

    I use Capitalize Tags (except for Classical and some stylised names) as with one button press it gives a consistent look.

    Genre is either a useless generic tag "Popular", "Classical" etc, or for some a useful search tool. Gary's Christmas is a good example of what is useful for my family and I use OST for film soundtracks and the self explanatory 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s for compilations: I personally prefer Compilations to Various Artists, so substituted it in the naming string.

    The balance of everyone's collection is totally different, so a useful Genre tag for one maybe totally redundant for another.

    Many of the requirements are set up by the naming string and settings, the rest quickly become, routine and second nature.

    The advice to try a few things out is very sound as you find what you ideally want and your player actually needs. Some of the decisions my friends and I made were for necessity and others for purely personal preferences.

    All the best on ripping your collection.
    Last edited by Oggy; 01-19-2021 at 02:30 PM.

  4. #49
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    Thumbs up Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    We are all creating personal libraries, the one probable common goal of using dBpoweramp is having the confidence of knowing you have AccurateRips and being able to easily find a specific pressing of any artist, album and track.

    Together with a couple of friends we went about this in three ways - all work, but are specific for our needs. Taking David Bowie, one uses no sort tags, Artist - David Bowie, the other Artist - David Bowie and Album Artist - Bowie, David (in a folder B) and I use Artist - David Bowie, AristSort (not Artist Sort) - Bowie, David as I display and it is more natural for me to search by surname.
    Thank you @oggy for your reply. I've been reading a lot of threads on other forums recently, and these appear to be the three main sorting principles I keep seeing:

    • Names of bands are sorted under the first letter of the first word. For example, Red Hot Chili Peppers is sorted under R.
    • If the first word of a band name is "The", it is sorted by the next word in the name (i.e. Group Name, The). For example, The Beatles is sorted under B.
    • Names of individual artists can be sorted by either first or last name, depending on preference. For example, Paul Simon could be sorted under S (i.e. Surname, Name). This would put Paul Simon next to Simon and Garfunkel in your music library. Alternatively, it could be sorted by P (i.e. Name, Surname), along with Paul McCartney.

    Sorting by last name appears to be considered the "correct" way of doing things by many, but I find it can get a bit confusing when you have bands with names that include the names of solo artists, or solo artists with stage names that sound like bands.

    For me, sorting by first name removes any doubt about where an album belongs in a collection, thus making the process of ripping a large CD collection just that little bit easier. For example, The Jimi Hendrix Experience is sorted under "J", and I don't need to think about whether it should be under "H". Adam Ant would go next to Adam and the Ants (admittedly not a very good example as both go under "A" anyway). Of course, Paul Simon will no longer appear next to Simon and Garfunkel, but I know exactly where it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    As Gary's software does, mine can be set to "ignore" The in The Beatles and show it in B, but I also use ArtistSort (or AlbumArtistSort when there are multiple artists) - Beatles, The in case I ever change to a player that isn't as smart - plenty aren't!
    I will also be following the "Group Name, The" rule. The only thing left to decide is whether or not I want to use the Album Artist Sort tags for ALL artists (and not just those with "The" at the beginning). I know it isn't necessary, but just for the sake of consistency. By the way, what is the difference between using AristSort as opposed to Artist Sort?

    On a similar point, I also read this advice regarding how to fill in the sorting fields:

    Artist
    Album Artist
    Artist Sort
    Album Artist Sort

    For example:
    The Beatles
    The Beatles
    Beatles
    Beatles, The

    Do you know why "The" has been included under Album Artist Sort, but not under Artist Sort?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Two of use Folder.jpg and one uses embedded without a Folder.jpg. Because of the control app one uses, all of his discs have to go in one folder if he wants more than the first disc to play. We all chose a maximum art size of 1000x1000 pixels and 300x300KB file size. At the time a popular player had a max size of I believe 1024x1024 pixels and 320KB file size, so the decision was made on the nearest round numbers that maintained compatibility.
    I'm using cover.jpg, but I've set it at 1080x1080 pixels. I've left the default I found in CD Ripper at 750KB and adjusted the setting in PERFECT Tunes to match (although I doubt many files will actually be this big). I was happy (and quite surprised) to find that both of my music players automatically group multi-disc CDs as complete albums, even when saved in different folders (as with the naming string that @garym suggests at the beginning of this thread).

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    I use Capitalize Tags (except for Classical and some stylised names) as with one button press it gives a consistent look.
    I've decided to do the same on CDs that I rip, being sure to check the results as they don't always produce the desired outcome. I'll probably leave downloaded albums as they are, at least for the time being. I can always alter them later if I decide to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    I personally prefer Compilations to Various Artists, so substituted it in the naming string.
    I prefer Various Artists, as it refers to the artist rather than the type of album. I mean, if a band releases a collection of their work as, say, a Greatest Hits album, isn't that also a compilation? I would want "Queen Hits" saved with other Queen albums, and not in the Compilations folder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    The balance of everyone's collection is totally different, so a useful Genre tag for one maybe totally redundant for another.

    Many of the requirements are set up by the naming string and settings, the rest quickly become, routine and second nature.

    The advice to try a few things out is very sound as you find what you ideally want and your player actually needs. Some of the decisions my friends and I made were for necessity and others for purely personal preferences.

    All the best on ripping your collection.
    Thanks again for all of your advice.

  5. #50
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
    On a similar point, I also read this advice regarding how to fill in the sorting fields:

    Artist
    Album Artist
    Artist Sort
    Album Artist Sort

    For example:
    The Beatles
    The Beatles
    Beatles
    Beatles, The

    Do you know why "The" has been included under Album Artist Sort, but not under Artist Sort?
    Seems odd. I'd use "Beatles, The" for both Artist Sort and AlbumArtist Sort.

  6. #51
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    Seems odd. I'd use "Beatles, The" for both Artist Sort and AlbumArtist Sort.
    That's what I thought. I'm still undecided about whether or not to even bother with these sort fields, as I've discovered that my music player does indeed have the ability to sort by either "Group Name, The" or "The, Group Name". I'll just start ripping CDs without "The" in the Artist Name until I've made up my mind.

  7. #52
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
    That's what I thought. I'm still undecided about whether or not to even bother with these sort fields, as I've discovered that my music player does indeed have the ability to sort by either "Group Name, The" or "The, Group Name". I'll just start ripping CDs without "The" in the Artist Name until I've made up my mind.
    Your choice. I'd do the opposite as default. Nothing would bother me more than seeing the artist reported in my player display as "Beatles" rather than "The Beatles" or "Doors" rather than "The Doors"

  8. #53
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
    That's what I thought. I'm still undecided about whether or not to even bother with these sort fields, as I've discovered that my music player does indeed have the ability to sort by either "Group Name, The" or "The, Group Name". I'll just start ripping CDs without "The" in the Artist Name until I've made up my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    Your choice. I'd do the opposite as default. Nothing would bother me more than seeing the artist reported in my player display as "Beatles" rather than "The Beatles" or "Doors" rather than "The Doors"
    Sorry @garym, that was poorly explained on my part. What I meant was that I'll start ripping CDs by artists that don't have "The" in their name (e.g. Beck, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, etc.), where the sort fields don't need any special attention. Then, when I've made up my mind about whether or not to use the sort fields for artists with "The" in their name, I can start ripping those CDs (e.g. The Beatles, The Doors, The Specials, etc.). I hope that makes sense now!

  9. #54
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    Seems odd. I'd use "Beatles, The" for both Artist Sort and AlbumArtist Sort.
    I believe this is a very deliberate choice. There are folders A, B, C so Album Artist - Beatles, The / Bowie, David both go into the B folder, but the filename and Artist metadata read The Beatles / David Bowie.

  10. #55
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    I started using Artist - Beatles, The and quickly decided I simply didn't like either Beatles, The or Beatles.

    The band name is The Beatles.

  11. #56
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    I believe this is a very deliberate choice. There are folders A, B, C so Album Artist - Beatles, The / Bowie, David both go into the B folder, but the filename and Artist metadata read The Beatles / David Bowie.
    Yep, I understand using "Beatles, The" as a sort name and use of that sort name in creating an artist folder (so "Beatles, The" shows up under "B" folders when sorting or browsing by folder). It's using "Beatles" by itself that I wouldn't personally like.

  12. #57
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    I started using Artist - Beatles, The and quickly decided I simply didn't like either Beatles, The or Beatles.

    The band name is The Beatles.
    Agree. I wouldn't want "Beatles, The" in the artist or album artist tag. But I would think the "Beatles, The" is just used in sort tag and not in artist or album artist tag, where the player display would typically come from.
    Last edited by garym; 01-22-2021 at 06:40 AM.

  13. #58
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    I started using Artist - Beatles, The and quickly decided I simply didn't like either Beatles, The or Beatles.

    The band name is The Beatles.
    This what I understand so far. If I enter "Beatles, The" under Album Artist Sort, with "The Beatles" as the Album Artist, it should show up in the music library as "The Beatles" under artists beginning with "B". But if I don't enter anything into the sort field, the album will be sorted under "T".

    At least one of my playback software applications has the option to ignore "The" from artist titles (without having to use the sort tags), which also puts the album under artists beginning with "B". However, it now shows up as "Beatles, The".

    So if I want to sort "The Beatles" under "B" and have it actually show up as "The Beatles" (and not "Beatles, The"), I should do this by using the sort tags in CD Ripper and not rely on the settings in my music player.

    By the way, is there any reason why some of my replies show up instantly and others show up one or two days later? I posted a reply to @garym Yesterday morning and it still isn't showing up in the thread.

  14. #59
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
    That's what I thought. I'm still undecided about whether or not to even bother with these sort fields, as I've discovered that my music player does indeed have the ability to sort by either "Group Name, The" or "The, Group Name". I'll just start ripping CDs without "The" in the Artist Name until I've made up my mind.
    Hi Supernaut,

    A quick follow up to some of your questions and an explanation as to why I use Sort tags.

    Back 40 years ago my LP collection was growing and it was taking longer to find a specific album. Somewhere around a few hundred albums I decided to put them in alphabetical order and had to make a decision on how I wanted to file them. I chose what was instinctive to me - as those few hundred grew to a few thousand, I could still locate any album by reading / recognising the spines in a few seconds.

    This was by Artist in alphabetical and chronological order with The Beatles in B's and John Lennon in L's - this is second nature for me. Often when deciding what to play I'd look down the spines and pull out an album, maybe check the track listing and play what took my fancy.

    Moving to a digital library I still think the same way, except the spines are now an Artist / Album overlay at the bottom of the front cover, which I click on if I need to check the tracks - I simply scroll through covers until one inspires me. The sort tags are simply to allow me the put those covers as I did the LPs.

    We all think differently, so what is second nature to me may seem hard work to others - but not having Jeff Buckley next to Tim and Julian next to John Lennon is for me illogical having used that methodology for decades. The easiest way for me to locate something is simply to put it in an obvious place to begin with.

    I use Sort tags for my benefit and Genre for my wife and friend's benefit.

    The Artist and Album name reflect the LP spine as closely as possible. The track names duplicates what it says on the sleeve - including Classical:-

    i. Allegro maestoso

    ii. Andante moderato


    I don't add Composer, Orchestra, or Conductor to the movement name - the front cover, or Tags is enough for me.
    Last edited by Oggy; 01-23-2021 at 12:32 PM.

  15. #60
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    Re: Need advice before ripping collection to FLAC

    Thank you, @Oggy. Unfortunately I'm having trouble with my replies not appearing after I submit them. I posted a reply two days ago, and another yesterday, neither are yet visible. Other times my replies appear instantly, as soon as I press the Submit Reply button.

    With those that don't appear, I get the message:

    Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting. You will now be taken back to the forum. If you opted to post a poll, you will now be allowed to do so.

    These replies then show up in the thread chronologically, at the point where I originally submitted them. It's kind of like having a long distance phone call with a very bad delay.

    Anyway, I'll continue with my questions once my previous responses have been seen. Again, thank you for your input, it is all very helpful.

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