title
Products            Buy            Support Forum            Professional            About            Codec Central
 

PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • FrancescoT
    • Mar 2024
    • 41

    PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

    Can someone please explain why PerfectTunes AccurateRip analysis depends on rip metadata?
    Example (latest): I rip one CD with dBpoweramp, which says the disc is in AccurateRip, with the default metadata writing enabled. All tracks are ripped accurately except one, which is declared Secure but disagrees with AR. I then run PerfecTunes on the rip, which confirms the rip has only one track with ripping errors. So far so good. But if I now strip the ripped files from their metadata (using Exiftool or Tag Stripper) - OR I disable metadata writing in DP - PT says the album IS NOT IN AR.
    What gives? What are EXACTLY the reliability boundaries of PerfectTunes?? One can so easily fool it into opposite conclusions? Do I have to suppose one can just as easily take a flawed rip and modify its metadata to lead PT to certify its accuracy??

    Edit: It is even worse than that. If I strip a perfectly accurate rip of its metadata, PT may say it cannot check because some tracks have different length than CD original. PT hallucinates.
    Last edited by FrancescoT; April 14, 2024, 12:24 PM.
  • Spoon
    Administrator
    • Apr 2002
    • 44093

    #2
    Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

    Using any DSP effects to change the track length?

    Track lengths are used to match a disc to AR.
    Spoon
    www.dbpoweramp.com

    Comment

    • FrancescoT
      • Mar 2024
      • 41

      #3
      Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

      Hi. No no DSP at all. Incidentally, is there a way to get notified if/when somebody updates a thread here, or does one have to login into the forum every time to check?
      Last edited by FrancescoT; April 15, 2024, 06:43 AM.

      Comment

      • garym
        dBpoweramp Guru
        • Nov 2007
        • 5770

        #4
        Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

        Originally posted by FrancescoT
        Hi. No no DSP at all. Incidentally, is there a way to get notified if/when somebody updates a thread here, or does one have to login into the forum every time to check?
        yes, look under settings > general settings. You can get an email notification under various conditions, including seeing replies to threads you are subscribed to.

        Comment

        • FrancescoT
          • Mar 2024
          • 41

          #5
          Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

          Originally posted by garym
          yes, look under settings > general settings. You can get an email notification under various conditions, including seeing replies to threads you are subscribed to.
          Thanks.

          Comment

          • FrancescoT
            • Mar 2024
            • 41

            #6
            Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

            Originally posted by simbun
            By default PerfectTunes uses embedded AccurateRip results, which could account for some of the differences.

            To turn it off:
            Code:
            PerfectTunes > Settings > Use AccurateRipResult from ID Tag
            I thought, at the very least, that it would require TrackNumber, but I removed everything - and even named the files out of order - and it still verified the disc.

            It might be useful if you included the log results of one of your rips with and without metadata.
            I enclose the dBpoweramp logs of the rips done with and without metadata writing. As you can see, they're essentially superimposable save for the last track. On the first (with tags) PerfectTunes agrees with dBpoweramp, on the second (without tags) PerfectTunes says the album isn't present in AR. If I strip the tags off the first rip, PerfectTunes says it cannot check; Track Different Length Than CD original. The PerfectTunes results are identical if I uncheck the 'Use AccurateRip value from ID tag' option. I enclose a screenshot of the PT result page having placed the three rips in three different subdirectories.
            Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot 2024-04-15 at 17.49.59.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	95.1 KB
ID:	294751Secure Ripping Log_no_tags.txtSecure Ripping Log_tags.txt

            Comment

            • Spoon
              Administrator
              • Apr 2002
              • 44093

              #7
              Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

              Ripping to lossless?

              the sample count of the track has to be divisible exactly by 588 samples, that is how tracks are ripped:

              Spoon
              www.dbpoweramp.com

              Comment

              • FrancescoT
                • Mar 2024
                • 41

                #8
                Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                Originally posted by Spoon
                Ripping to lossless?

                the sample count of the track has to be divisible exactly by 588 samples, that is how tracks are ripped:

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compac..._Digital_Audio
                Can you please explain what has this got to do with the problem. I've ripped some 30k tracks off thousands of CDs (all purchased by me) to Apple Lossless format without any problem.

                Comment

                • Spoon
                  Administrator
                  • Apr 2002
                  • 44093

                  #9
                  Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                  Because if it is not this exact length, then it is not a 1:1 rip.

                  Example you have a very short track, it can be:

                  588 samples
                  1176 samples
                  1764 samples

                  if it was 1000 samples, then it is not a correct rip from a CD, because it is impossible to rip 1000 samples, as everything has to be divisible by 588. Check the sample count of the track which gives a not from CD error.
                  Spoon
                  www.dbpoweramp.com

                  Comment

                  • FrancescoT
                    • Mar 2024
                    • 41

                    #10
                    Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                    Originally posted by simbun
                    That's because it's just looking at the tags that were written during ripping.
                    So you're implying that PT looks at these tags even when I disable the 'Use AccurateRip value from ID Tag' option ?

                    Originally posted by simbun
                    If you click on Show Details in PerfectTunes when you're verifying a failed rip is the Disc ID different to '010-00164f7a-00b43369-7e0dcd0a-6'?
                    The Disc ID is identical in PT and in DP logs, and is the same both when tags are written and when they are not. But in the second case PT concludes that the disc is not in AR. In the case tags are stripped, PT doesn't log any disc ID.

                    Originally posted by simbun
                    When you verify a rip with CUETools you can have it generate a .toc (table of contents) file (Settings > Advanced > Misc: Create TOC files). It would be interesting to see if that matched with the logs from your rip.
                    I'm on a MAC so no CUETools

                    Comment

                    • FrancescoT
                      • Mar 2024
                      • 41

                      #11
                      Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                      May I ask why some of my updates of yesterday to this thread, which provided additional information, are being held back and do not appear.

                      Comment

                      • Dat Ei
                        dBpoweramp Guru
                        • Feb 2014
                        • 1752

                        #12
                        Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                        Postings with attachments (or links) will be put under quarantine in most of the cases for security reasons and have to be checked by the admin.


                        Dat Ei

                        Comment

                        • FrancescoT
                          • Mar 2024
                          • 41

                          #13
                          Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                          Originally posted by Dat Ei
                          Postings with attachments (or links) will be put under quarantine in most of the cases for security reasons and have to be checked by the admin.


                          Dat Ei
                          My posts being quarantined did not contain any attachment or links. And previous posts of mine which did contain attachments went online right away. What's going on?

                          Comment

                          • Spoon
                            Administrator
                            • Apr 2002
                            • 44093

                            #14
                            Re: PerfectTunes AR results affected by metadata ???

                            Because if it is not this exact length, then it is not a 1:1 rip.

                            Example you have a very short track, it can be:

                            588 samples
                            1176 samples
                            1764 samples

                            if it was 1000 samples, then it is not a correct rip from a CD, because it is impossible to rip 1000 samples, as everything has to be divisible by 588. Check the sample count of the track which gives a not from CD error.
                            Spoon
                            www.dbpoweramp.com

                            Comment

                            • FrancescoT
                              • Mar 2024
                              • 41

                              #15
                              Thank you. The number of samples between the two rips match, and the total samples read for each track is a multiple of 588.
                              Unfortunately XLD does not seem to work anymore on the latest Sonoma: it hangs detecting pregaps irrespective of whether the 'Don't detect pregaps' option is checked or unchecked.
                              I would like to inform that the CD I'm ripping is an original Hyperion Records release (CDA66468) of 1991.

                              Comment

                              Working...

                              ]]>