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Thread: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secure?

  1. #1

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    Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secure?

    Hello!

    I'm new to this stuff, but I've been reading a lot on this forum over the past few days, and think I have a decent grasp on the more basic concepts thanks to all of the more knowledgeable people here. However, I am a bit unsure of whether or not the 8kb Transfers option is something I should attempt before moving on in my process.

    I found an old CD binder with about 200 discs in it - a small portion of them in good shape, but most pretty scratched.


    1. I started with an Accurate Rip pass, placing all albums that were 100% verified in a folder, and deleting/cancelling the rest of the rips as I went. Managed to get 35 of the 200 AR verified.

    2. Tested my drive for C2Pointers. During testing, a clean disc presented no errors, a very scratched disc almost immediately threw errors, a relatively scratched disc threw errors at about 30%, and the same clean disc from the first test with a sharpie triangle drawn on it threw errors at about 40% where it was drawn.

    3. So, assuming C2 Pointers were working well, I did a 2nd pass on the remaining 165 CDs - 8 came back Accurate Rip verified. Unless I'm misunderstanding, that would point to the fact that 8 of the 165 just had read errors the first time, and the rest were, in fact, damaged. I think this confirms C2 Pointers are working well?


    So my next step was going to be to try and clean the remaining 157 CDs (using the SkipDr. product which someone in another thread mentioned working well), before what I assume is going to be the long process of a final pass with Ultra Secure settings.

    So my questions are:


    A. Does it seem like C2 Pointers are, in fact, working correctly? If it matters - I have an external USB LG drive, with a tested 6kb cache, that reads as [HL-DT-ST - DVDRAM GP 50NB40]

    B. Is there any reason to think I should do another pass, similar to the 2nd, with the 8kb Transfers option selected, before moving on to Ultra Secure settings?

    C. When I move on to Ultra Secure, should I assume I can use settings for C2 Pointers that are working well?

    D. How many passes should I max my Ultra Secure settings at, before just accepting the disc is beyond repair, and settling for whatever insecure rip that I end up with? Not looking to repurchase $3k worth of albums, but would like to not spend the next 6 months in the ripping process.


    Thanks for any help you can offer.

    I realize that I could have probably avoided the redundancy of multiple passes by just starting with Ultra Secure settings, but being new to this, it seemed like I might learn more about the process by doing it in organized stages with specific settings.

    Anyway, cheers!

  2. #2
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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    You already seem to know this, but just to be clear, if you use UltraSecure setting initially, dbpa will first do a burst pass (really fast) and then compare this to the AR database. If a match, then you're done. So no need to do the different settings first; ultrasecure is already automatically doing that for you. I personally use 3 passes as the max for my ultrasecure settings. If I can't get an AR match or at least a "secure" result by then, I work on cleaning the CD, using a different optical drive, etc.

    Yes, your testing indicates that C2 error checking is working on your drive.

  3. #3
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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    8KB should only be used on specific old drives, not to improve ripping.

  4. #4

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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    You already seem to know this, but just to be clear, if you use UltraSecure setting initially, dbpa will first do a burst pass (really fast) and then compare this to the AR database. If a match, then you're done. So no need to do the different settings first; ultrasecure is already automatically doing that for you. I personally use 3 passes as the max for my ultrasecure settings. If I can't get an AR match or at least a "secure" result by then, I work on cleaning the CD, using a different optical drive, etc.

    Yes, your testing indicates that C2 error checking is working on your drive.
    Thanks for the advice!

    When you say max 3 passes, how many clean passes do you require? If it's secure, but disagrees with multiple AR results, how many clean passes is an indication that its all you are gonna get from that disc, without moving on to cleaning or a different reader, in an attempt to get AR Verified?

    And yeah, like you said, I realize I am building redundancy into my process, but for some reason my brain really wanted to just get the AR Verified discs taken care of and separated from the rest. That way I could focus on the rest of them from a cleaning/good-as-it-gets/garbage perspective.

    Perhaps there is someway dbPA can integrate this into the workflow? Save to a specific file, based on rip results? One folder for 100% AR Verified, others for rips that include secure status or insecure status or error status?

    Cheers


    Also, a slightly unrelated question, but the Guide for Rip Status says this for tracks that rip secure but are not AR Verified, and I find it slightly confusing:

    "Your ripping result disagrees with 12 other peoples rips, the green i indicates that frames had to be re-ripped, possibly an undetected error has slipped through. If all tracks except one have an AccurateRip verification, and the confidence (number shown in brackets) is more than one, it is likely your rip has errors."

    Does the possibility of more than one track ripping Securely but without AR Verification change the likeliness of errors? Like, if 2 or 3 tracks rip securely but without AR Verification, and the rest rip AR Verified, is it less likely the secure tracks have errors?

  5. #5

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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoon View Post
    8KB should only be used on specific old drives, not to improve ripping.
    Thanks Spoon, cheers!

  6. #6
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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    Max ultra passes 3
    min ultra passes 2
    end after clean passes 2

    regarding automate moving files with errors to a separate location: this option already exists. Use the DSP, "Move destination File on Error" in your ripping settings and set it up as you want things to be handled.
    https://www.dbpoweramp.com/dbpoweramp-dsp.htm

    I think the point the guide is making is that if you have secure rips on every track and NO AR match, the likelihood is that your CD is a different pressing, different offset, etc. But if only a few tracks don't match AR, likelihood that there is an error. Your question regarding whether having 2 or 3 rip securely but with no AR match making it LESS likely the secure tracks have errors? I'd say no, increasing the number of secure but NO AR tracks doesn't make likelihood of errors less. Again, if ALL tracks are secure, but none have AR, then the likelihood of errors is low (the CD just doesn't match AR database).

    Keep in mind that dbpa is very picky (as a secure ripper should be). If it has to do reripping of frames and a single frame is never found to match upon multiple passes, you'll get "insecure' or error (can't recall the message). But a single frame is only 1/75 of a second of audio. Consequently, you're unlikely to even hear any audible glitch in a CD ripped with errors in only a few frames.

    For me, when I have trouble getting a secure rip, I try ripping CDs in 3 different optical drives (some CDs will rip fine in one drive but not another....there is no consistency on which drive works better across different CDs). And by the way, some of these are all dirt cheap drives that I salvaged from older computers I was replacing. If I still can't get all tracks secure, I'll clean the CD well (literally soap and water and light rubbing, then dry it off with towel). If that doesn't work and I have only a track or two with errors, I'll then just listen to them. Most of the time, I can't detect any audible glitch.

  7. #7

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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    For me, when I have trouble getting a secure rip, I try ripping CDs in 3 different optical drives (some CDs will rip fine in one drive but not another....there is no consistency on which drive works better across different CDs). And by the way, some of these are all dirt cheap drives that I salvaged from older computers I was replacing. If I still can't get all tracks secure, I'll clean the CD well (literally soap and water and light rubbing, then dry it off with towel). If that doesn't work and I have only a track or two with errors, I'll then just listen to them. Most of the time, I can't detect any audible glitch.
    How can you hear them? When I get insecure rips CD-Ripper doesn't safe any music file which is imho annoying because maybe some errors could have been repaired/solved already.
    Can I force it to save with rest of errors? Or do I have to burst without any recovery?

  8. #8
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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    You must have changed the option 'Mark track as error if' from (disabled) on the secure settings page.

    By default tracks are saved even if insecure.

  9. #9

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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    Ah true. Thank you so much!
    How can I compare those results between different drives? Is there any file which I can compare to keep the best file with lowest errors?
    I mean what would be the best workflow if I get an error? Trying the same CD with a different drive and giving a different file-name to not overwrite, but then??
    Last edited by TJoerg; 01-25-2022 at 12:06 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Scratched CDs - should I do an 8kb Transfers pass before moving on to Ultra Secur

    Quote Originally Posted by TJoerg View Post
    Ah true. Thank you so much!
    How can I compare those results between different drives? Is there any file which I can compare to keep the best file with lowest errors?
    I mean what would be the best workflow if I get an error? Trying the same CD with a different drive and giving a different file-name to not overwrite, but then??
    I don't bother comparing multiple rips of the same CD, each with errors to each other. My process. I rip a CD. If it generates errors, insecure, or even has lots of frame re-reads during the ripping process, I first pull out the CD and try to rip with a different drive. If I still get errors, I use a cloth to clean/buff by hand the disk then retry. If I still get insecure or errors, I clean the CD more (using some mild soap and water). If at that point I still get insecure or errors, I listen to the last version (the only one I actually saved anyhow) to determine if there are any audible errors. If not, I'm done. In some cases I add another step. CUETOOLS software can actually provide some fixing of errors based on its own database. So I might take my digital rip with errors and run it through CUETOOLS repair function. Depending on how many frames have errors and whether the CD is in the CUETOOLS database, I might be able to repair and get an AccurateRip match on the repaired track.

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