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Thread: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields blank

  1. #1
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    Unhappy CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields blank

    Version 16.6: CD Ripper apparently first reads CD-Text and CD-ISRC, then looks for metadata on the web. Not finding anything on the web, it removes the originally found metadata that was on the disc.

    Going back and requesting reads from CD-Text and CD-ISRC restores the originally-found metadata, and I am able to proceed from there. But why does CD Ripper overwrite (delete) the metadata that it had already located on the disc? I would think that that metadata, having been put there by the artist/label, should have priority over other data, as it is surely the most likely to be correct.

    I reported this odd behavior months ago but it still persists. This results in some of our volunteers resorting to entering missing data by hand rather than using what was available on the CD. Besides, it's frustrating to have to deal with this time and time again.

    Dennis, aka "d2b"

  2. #2
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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Quote Originally Posted by d2b View Post
    Version 16.6: CD Ripper apparently first reads CD-Text and CD-ISRC, then looks for metadata on the web. Not finding anything on the web, it removes the originally found metadata that was on the disc.

    Going back and requesting reads from CD-Text and CD-ISRC restores the originally-found metadata, and I am able to proceed from there. But why does CD Ripper overwrite (delete) the metadata that it had already located on the disc? I would think that that metadata, having been put there by the artist/label, should have priority over other data, as it is surely the most likely to be correct.

    I reported this odd behavior months ago but it still persists. This results in some of our volunteers resorting to entering missing data by hand rather than using what was available on the CD. Besides, it's frustrating to have to deal with this time and time again.

    Dennis, aka "d2b"
    I wonder if this explains something I have seen recently. Almost immediately the correct metadata gets filled in by the ripper. But a few seconds later it disappears and is replaced by unknown.

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    Smile Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    I wonder if this explains something I have seen recently. Almost immediately the correct metadata gets filled in by the ripper. But a few seconds later it disappears and is replaced by unknown.
    That is exactly what happens! If it does happen to you, try selecting "Retrieve Metadata from..." which is the second item on the Menu. Then choose "CD-Text." If that brings back some of the disappeared metadata, then do it again but instead choose "CD-ISRC" to get that information if it is there.

    I'm pleasantly surprised by the number of CDs that actually do contain the ISRC codes when I thought before that they were not assigned.

    Besides the benefit of a secure ripping option, a CD ripping program should be able to quickly locate and deliver as much accurate metadata as available, most specifically that which the artist/label/manufacturer have handed to us on a (pardon the pun) silver platter!

    Dennis, aka "d2b"

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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Thanks. I will test that. This is definitely a bug.

  5. #5
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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    I first reported this problem on August 30, 2018 and then again on December 4, 2018. Spoon replied on December 5 that they would test it prior to the next update.

    Dennis, aka "d2b"

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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    We spent a day testing this, and found zero bugs. The ISRC code was read and not replaced by a later PerfectMeta update. Perhaps uncheck the providers so only have ISRC and the 4 main selected then test.

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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoon View Post
    We spent a day testing this, and found zero bugs. The ISRC code was read and not replaced by a later PerfectMeta update. Perhaps uncheck the providers so only have ISRC and the 4 main selected then test.
    I never meant to suggest that testing was not done. That said, a bug exists, perhaps as a faulty algorithm.

    It makes no sense whatsoever to me that is is reasonable to deselect CD-Text and CD-ISRC as main providers of metadata.

    I believe, perhaps incorrectly, that this problem exists when NO metadata is found in any of the four main providers.

    What does make sense to me is to give absolute priority to CD-Text, CD-ISRC and CD-UPC metadata found on the CD and only then add in other non-conflicting metadata, such as composer, date, artist information, if it is available from the 'main' providers, whoever they may be.

    Dennis, aka "d2b"

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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Dennis,

    While that might seem to make sense in your case, I think some of us might run into problems. I'm surprised how many of my international (mostly Caribbean) CDs have extraneous data recorded into the CD text, like "First Take", "Track 3" (when it's on track 6 of the CD), abbreviations of the title or artist, etc. Obviously not intended for the consumer.

    And a lot of my CDs have no metadata or very wrong metadata, particularly since the demise of the AMG data. I have to type it in.

    While yes, CD text might want to have priority, one should still have the ability to override it from the other sources or manual entry.

  9. #9
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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidj View Post
    Dennis,

    While that might seem to make sense in your case, I think some of us might run into problems. I'm surprised how many of my international (mostly Caribbean) CDs have extraneous data recorded into the CD text, like "First Take", "Track 3" (when it's on track 6 of the CD), abbreviations of the title or artist, etc. Obviously not intended for the consumer.

    And a lot of my CDs have no metadata or very wrong metadata, particularly since the demise of the AMG data. I have to type it in.

    While yes, CD text might want to have priority, one should still have the ability to override it from the other sources or manual entry.
    Oh, I am in complete agreement with you about the possibility of finding 'garbage' data in the CD-Text fields. I had addressed that possibility in an early reply to this thread but somehow I lost it late at night and it never got posted. Here's where some well-designed AI algorithms might be appropriate. That said, I HAVE NEVER SEEN dBpa RETURN ANY GARBAGE METADATA from CD-Text in the manner you described though some is badly formatted at times. What I have seen on occasion is clearly EXCELLENT results that were overwritten, resulting in no values in any of the fields.

    What app have you used to read CD-Text from a CD and then observe useless garbage there? I'm not saying it can't happen; I'd like to find an app that does allow one to read those special areas on the disc, independently of dBpa or any other program.

    Each time I have seen this bug OCCUR, I've managed to 'force' dBpa to re-read only the CD-Text and CD-ISRC fields and go successfully from there to obtain other missing metadata via the album cover or the web.

    Dennis, aka "d2b"

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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Hey Dennis,

    Quote Originally Posted by d2b View Post
    It makes no sense whatsoever to me that is is reasonable to deselect CD-Text and CD-ISRC as main providers of metadata.
    I've some albums which have spelling errors (i.e. in album title, track title and even in artist name) on the album cover. So I wouldn't trust to much in the infos coming from the record company. If the infos of CD-Text or CD-ISRC would always rule over the metadata coming from the databases, it would be a bug too - from my point of view. A feature, you can't turn off, is a bug. So I would prefer to have an option if to prefer the CD-Text and CD-ISRC or the metadata infos.


    Dat Ei

  11. #11
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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Hi Dennis,

    I'm using dBpoweramp to get the metadata. And it reads the garbage CDtext that is sometimes on the CDs. Now be aware that these aren't major record companies, just small recording studios, mostly either in the Caribbean or here in the states but of Caribbean origin. In all likelihood, they probably don't even realize that the CD text that they used for internal purposes is in the CD's (mostly CDR's these days) that they produced for sale. I suspect the same is true for small producers of other genres.

    I've been too busy and haven't had much time for (re)ripping the rest of my collection recently. I updated the ripper but haven't really used it since the update, so if there is a bug, I probably wouldn't have noticed it.

  12. #12
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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Well,I'm willing to turn off CD-Text and see what happens when no other metadata is recovered and the results blank. It's just inconvenient when I have to go back in those cases and THEN explore CD-Text.

    Perhaps the differences in your experiences and mine are that 95% or more of the CDs I am ripping are brand-new discs just released and sent to us for promotional radio airplay. Maybe the newer generation of American and Western European releases are more compliant with CD-Text standards and at the same time do not yet appear in the databases.

    Is ISRC data ever supplied by the databases? I've never seen any evidence of it.

    Dennis, aka "d2b"

  13. #13

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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    I'm not seeing the ISRC, or even a column for it, AT ALL. Running 16.6 reference here. I would like to complete ISRC and Label fields on rip, and SEE them! They are selected in CD Ripper Options but there is no ISRC or Label column and no content of that nature. Anyone any tips?

    Thanks!

  14. #14
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    Re: CD Ripper reads and then removes CD-Text and CD-ISRC, leaving metadata fields bla

    Quote Originally Posted by rgelen View Post
    I'm not seeing the ISRC, or even a column for it, AT ALL. Running 16.6 reference here. I would like to complete ISRC and Label fields on rip, and SEE them! They are selected in CD Ripper Options but there is no ISRC or Label column and no content of that nature. Anyone any tips?

    Thanks!
    dBpoweramp's CD-Ripper is notorious for its issues with column spacing and width settings. Many times, in order to see all of the results, you need to drag the columns you do see all the way to the left in order to reveal the columns off screen to the right. Having said that, it is obvious that some column's width need to be adjustable in width (i.e. made really wide) in order to accommodate the metadata you may have to enter by hand, whereas some, like the columns for track length and ISRC, could be fixed in width.

    As of right now, CD-Ripper has a serious bug, often reading CD-Text and CD-ISRC initially and then discarding that metadata when it finds nothing on the web.

    In any case, there is a menu option to "force" CD-Ripper to read CD-ISRC. Try it. You may find that there really is data there.

    You might also get better results using a wide screen display so you have more room to display the columns that are meaningful.

    With a little practice, you can learn to adjust the column order and delete unneeded columns like Rating and CRC if they are present. Right-click in the row of column headings to see the wide variety of choices, most of whom you will never need to view or even care about.

    Dennis...aka "d2b"

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