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Thread: C2 Error Pointers: To Use Them Or Not To Use Them?

  1. #1

    C2 Error Pointers: To Use Them Or Not To Use Them?

    I just posted a different thread about Secure Abort Settings but I am re-posting what I wrote in that thread under a new thread here because the central concern I want to discuss has deviated from my original question about secure rip abort settings

    I just tried ripping one of my problem discs with C2 on and then with C2 off (FYI it is CD4 in the box set of The Doors Complete Studio Recordings, which I have bought two copies of and both of which have the same errors cropping up on tracks 5 and 8 of that one disc).

    With C2 ON track 5 was logged as Inaccurate (confidence 40) / Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 6 Frames] and track 8 was logged as Inaccurate (confidence 40) / Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 6 Frames], and both rips were aborted because of one or more unrecoverable frames.

    With C2 OFF track 5 was logged as Accurate (confidence 2) / [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 1 Frames] and ripped securely without being aborted, whereas track 8 was logged as Inaccurate (confidence 40) / Secure (Warning) [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 1 Frames] so ripped securely but not accurately.

    This is interesting to me. Can anyone tell me how to interpret these findings? With C2 ON both problem tracks were flagged as inaccurate and insecure and aborted. With C2 OFF one track ripped securely and accurately (but with a low confidence of 2 compared to an accuracy confidence of 19 or 20 for the non-problem tracks on the same disc, and the other track ripped securely without being aborted but was deemed inaccurate with a confidence of 40.

    How do I interpret these figures? I am happy to get a secure rip if it is in fact truly secure. Is turning C2 off just a way to get the drive to pass over errors without detecting them (thus casting doubt on its rating as "secure")? Or does having C2 on actually introduce a possibly false/unreliable report of errors? This is an important question to answer. When I set up secure ripping I followed the guidelines to determine if my drive really supports C2 (using the CD with black marker triangle written across the playback side according to instructions) and running the test in the secure settings window, and it showed conclusively that my drive does support C2 (I have no idea what the maker claims for this model as to whether it is designated as C2-equipped or not). And I went on the recommendation to check the box for C2 if the drive supports this feature. Is C2 a desirable or necessary feature in getting a secure rip from an audio CD? Or is it not?

    Second, what about accuracy confidence ratings. With this disc, where I encountered errors in the same two tracks on two different copies of the same disc in mint condition, could a rip be considered accurate because the results mirror those of other users whose discs reproduced the same errors due to a mastering or manufacturing defect across multiple copies in the production run?

    I know I have encountered a fair number of inaccurate rips because the disc was incorrectly identified when I inserted it in the drive, even though I entered in all the correct ID data associated with the disc (this happens most frequently on CDs with only one track, such as many modern classical or experimental CDs I own which get ID tagged as some New Age CD I never heard of).

    If I could boil this long winded post down to one question, it's this: Is it better to leave C2 on or off if what I want is a truly secure and bit perfect rip? (Seems dubious to simply turn it off so as to deceive myself into thinking the rip is secure when it is actually not secure).
    I suspect the answer is not so cut and dried, so maybe some guidelines for when to use C2 or not, how to gauge or assess the actual implementation of C2 pointers in a drive which does support C2? (I just found Spoon's audio guide to CD ripping as well as HydrogenAudio's wiki on secure ripping and those explanations were helpful and appreciated).
    Last edited by ferrarabrainpan; 10-31-2018 at 05:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2002

    Re: C2 Error Pointers: To Use Them Or Not To Use Them?

    Some drives do not support c2 very well, it is a buggy implementation, if there are rouge bad frame detections then it should be switched off.

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