Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

[shcbris.]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Thanks again to all who has given me advice.
Did a batch job using the mp3tag utility that Gary suggested.
Was able to modify the multiple composer and artist metadata from "; " to "/ " on all tracks.
Tried it on 10 albums first to test.
Was able to then do all approx 50000 tracks at once in two stages.
First run for the composer modify and second run for the artist.
This worked faster than I thought when modifying files on a 4TB USB drive.
I then tried to do the same with the NAS.
The NAS seems to be ok with only 1 folder at a time for some reason instead of being able to do the all the folders at once.
ie my FLAC files are on the drive as:
FLAC-Lossless (then under that as individual Artist Names with multiple albums for each artist )
eg
AC/DC
Aerosmith
Al Kooper
etc etc
So with the USB drive I can just use the FLAC-Lossless directory and do all the tracks for all artists at once
But cannot do the with the NAS. Have to do each artist folder 1 at a time.
But its progress and better than having to change each track manually one at a time.
Hopefully the "/ " was the correct separator tag.
Should I do this for ALAC as well after I am happy with the FLAC changes or are ALAC and LAME not that fussy with "; " versus "/ "
as a separator?
Now running all the music files on the USB drive through FLAC Tester after modifying.

[garym]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Good progress. odd that the NAS files don't allow you to just choose top directory. I can do things with mp3tag on my NAS files on the network and it can deal with subdirectories just fine. Not sure what could be causing that. File permissions? or ????

regarding ALAC, no clue as to what ALAC players expect to see. I'd just test with a few files and your players and see how it gets handled with ; vs /.

[shcbris.]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Just testing with the two music apps that can present the composer data...others like 8Player or mconnect HD do not seem to have the option.
On Android
HiFi Cast +DLNA - composer data is presented now including multiple composers.

On Android or iOS
Foobar2k mobile - does not present any composer info ( when played from the same NAS ).
Only time composer info is shown on Foobar2k mobile is if the music is loaded locally on the Tablet ie on the micro SD in this instance.
( NB - I have modded my Foobar2k mobile skin so that composer info can be / is presented)

[mville]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

It appears that if the composer info is separated by a semi colon ;

eg
George Harrison; John Lennon; Paul McCartney; Ringo Starr

Then the HiFi cast only displays the last composer in the list of composers ie in the above example Ringo Star
For tracks that have multiple artists separated by a / then all the composers are displayed

eg
George Harrison/ John Lennon/ Paul McCartney/ Ringo Starr

I understand that the app developers have stated:
that this is unlikely to be an app issue??

However, I loaded HiFi cast android app to my device and I get the same i.e. only displaying the last composer in a multi-value composer tag.

I believe this issue needs resolving in the app, rather than users having to convert all multi-value composers to single tags, as a workaround. Not wanting to rain on your parade here, but IMO, this is a case of the tail wagging the dog.

In addition, I only found this to be a problem when reading tracks directly from the SD card. When accessing tracks via UPnP/DLNA (in this case Asset UPnP), multi-value composers display correctly. Interestingly, each composer is separated with a comma and a space.

[Oggy]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

You simply need to use a player that supports multi-value tags.

I use the standard dbpoweramp settings of a semi-colon with a space. From a Synology NAS, both the Synology app, DS audio and LMS display the correct multi-value tags, but with a forward slash and no space. John Lennon; Paul McCartney becomes, John Lennon/Paul McCartney.

As mville stated, this seems to be solely down to how a player, or app handles the multi-value tags.

[mville]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

I use the standard dbpoweramp settings of a semi-colon with a space. From a Synology NAS, both the Synology app DS audio and LMS display the correct multi-value tags, but with a forward slash and no space.

Yes, different softwares use different character combinations, when displaying multi-value tags.

John Lennon; Paul McCartney becomes, John Lennon/Paul McCartney.

What you are really saying here is dBpoweramp displays:
John Lennon; Paul McCartney

while the Synology app DS audio and LMS displays:
John Lennon/Paul McCartney

as NO separator characters are written to file for multi-value tags.

[Oggy]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Yes, different softwares use different character combinations, when displaying multi-value tags.

What you are really saying here is dBpoweramp displays:
John Lennon; Paul McCartney

while the Synology app DS audio and LMS displays:
John Lennon/Paul McCartney

as NO separator characters are written to file for multi-value tags.

Yes.

[shcbris.]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

It would be very nice to find out what is the best convention to use or at least before you use them have some sort of info in the specs to indicate potential issues dependent on tagging options..
I spent many hours changing my FLAC files...as I have 4 copies, I changed 3 ( out 2 NAS's and 2 USB drives ) to the "/ " separator and kept 1 drive with ": "
I like HiFi Cast but also Foobar2K mobile and mconnect HD also Neutron ( but this is too cumbersome in my opinion).
Foobar2k mobile does not really have as good a search function though as HiFi Cast.
So at present till something better comes along its HiFi Cast from android devices.
But even though the composer info is not really a big thing to most people... given that the metadata is there why not use it...
I would like to see a list of players others use especially for NAS ----> Android or iPad-------> bluetooth speaker etc.
Especially what players are "tag friendly" so that I don't have to stuff around with the files too much.
The naming I used with dbP when ripping by the way was:

[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][artist][][]\[album]\[track] [artist] - [title]

Not sure whether this has an impact but it is what I have used since first using dbP so thought I would stick with it.
Thanks again

[Dat Ei]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Instead of loving any player software you should love your music files. My impression is that you are on the best way to spoil your files. Take care about your files, the tagging and the standardized tagging conventions first. These files are your film stripes or raw files, just to make a comparision to photography.
Once those files are ok, you can convert to any codec and unusual or faulty tagging convention, like the on of Hifi Cast.


Dat Ei

[shcbris.]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Thanks.
Point taken.
I would of rather liked not had to do anything. I am not thinking of changing anything else.
Music still plays as it did except I can see the composer info.
Also I only changed FLAC not the ALAC or LAME version. Working out which players dont handle tagging properly is the art I guess.
I was surprised that Foobar2k mobile does not seem to be multitag friendly either given its seeming dbP ties...The fb2k mob forum site is not too responsive and I have basically given up that avenue.
If I had the opportunity and patience to do it all again I would of ripped to wav also.
Steve

[mville]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

I would of rather liked not had to do anything. I am not thinking of changing anything else.
Music still plays as it did except I can see the composer info.

That is the point here, you didn't have to do anything as dBpoweramp is creating your flac composer tags fine. You (understandably) assumed a problem with your flac files, when the problem lies with the HiFi Cast app when reading flac files from a storage location and not parsing multi-value composer tags correctly.

I was surprised that Foobar2k mobile does not seem to be multitag friendly either given its seeming dbP ties...

Based on my experience of foobar2000, I'd be very surprised if this were the case.

[shcbris.]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

mville, thanks.
Have fed back to the developer that they should do some more testing on this.
First up they suggested the problem was with the NAS and the ripped files...then FLAC..
Out of interest...could I ask what music player app do you use? Or Dat Ei or Garym or Oggy?
Can waste a lot of $ trying various ones out..which I have done.
Thanks again
Steve

[mville]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Have fed back to the developer that they should do some more testing on this.
First up they suggested the problem was with the NAS and the ripped files...then FLAC..

Yes, good idea. You could even refer them to this thread.

... FYI, once this issue is resolved you can use MP3Tag to retrieve your original flac multi-value composer tags. Assuming your composer tags now contain forward slash and space (to separate composers), simply create an action group in MP3Tag with 2 actions, a Replace action and a Split field by separator action:
Replace "COMPOSER": "/ " -> "~"
Split field by separator "COMPOSER": "~"

Out of interest...could I ask what music player app do you use? Or Dat Ei or Garym or Oggy?
Can waste a lot of $ trying various ones out..which I have done.

I have a flac library and run foobar2000, which I control with foobarcon android app.

For portability, I convert the flac library to mp3 and import into iTunes to sync with my iPod Classic 160GB. When micro SD cards become affordable and increase in capacity, I will ditch mp3/iTunes/iPod altogether.

[Oggy]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

Out of interest...could I ask what music player app do you use? Or Dat Ei or Garym or Oggy?
Can waste a lot of $ trying various ones out..which I have done.
Thanks again
Steve

I rip directly from laptop via a wired connection to a Synology NAS which has the music files and LMS (Logitech Media Server), this has a wired connection to a Logitech Squeezebox Touch. On an Android tablet, I have Synology DS audio and DS file, Foobar mobile and Squeeze Ctrl, an Android app which displays the music and controls the Touch.

Foobar2000 is installed on the laptop.

[garym]

Re: Composer tags - semi colon separator vs forward slash

1. for office computer and travel computer (laptop), use foobar2000 as library/player
2. For home system use primarily Logitech Media Server (LMS) as music server (running 24/7 on headless linux fanless computer in cabinet in rear of house) and various squeezebox players as endpoints. Most connected via ethernet, some WIFI connected. These include Squeezebox Transporter, TOUCH, RADIO, BOOMs. Control all this via my laptop desktop (when sitting in front on laptop) or iPeng app on iphone or ipad. The iphone and ipad can also simulate squeezebox players using iPeng. I can play the same audio through all these various players simultaneously or play different things to different rooms.
3. I'm experimenting with a Roon Server setup as well for home. It can play through various sorts of network connected endpoints, including squeezebox players, SONOS players, and others.
4. For portable, use iphone, ipad, or 160GB iPod. I have a mirror library of mp3 files (lame mp3 -V2, ID Tag ID3v2.3). I frankly haven't paid much attention to whether this picks up multivalue tags. I don't think iTunes reads multivalue tags.

All my servers/players can handle multivalue tags in my FLAC files with no issues using standard tagging (that is, ripped with dbpa with ";" as separator).