Replay Gain basic questions

[timster67]

I want to try Asset 6's Replay Gain feature, but it is new to me, so forgive what may be dim questions. I have yet to actually do it because I want to make sure I know about it and if it's actually relevant. The reason is I have playlists, and like the jukebox feature too, which for 950 albums always brings up big volume differences.

I have got as far as knowing how to apply the replay gain tag to my music through dBpoweramp and the utility codec, but the manual says it's only compatible renderers that can apply Replay Gain. Mine doesn't (Linn) so Q1. I am assuming that the Asset transcoding is for just this case. Is this correct and I'm not wasting my time?

Q2. How does it actually apply the Gain? I want to use Album Gain, but does it assume a generic level and apply it to everything in the album and library? So if and when I add a new album I need only apply the codec to it rather than rescan them all, or I can select a subset or even just one album to try it out?

If so, I have set Asset to have Album Gain on by transcoding my FLACs to WAV and setting it to 24-bits. But then the manual says "also set the Active and Inactive pre-amp to -3 dB." Q3. I can't find this, and what does it mean and do?

Finally Q4. Can it be undone once the codec has been applied?

Many thanks!

[mville]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

I want to try Asset 6's Replay Gain feature, but it is new to me, so forgive what may be dim questions. I have yet to actually do it because I want to make sure I know about it and if it's actually relevant. The reason is I have playlists, and like the jukebox feature too, which for 950 albums always brings up big volume differences.

I have got as far as knowing how to apply the replay gain tag to my music through dBpoweramp and the utility codec, but the manual says it's only compatible renderers that can apply Replay Gain. Mine doesn't (Linn) so Q1. I am assuming that the Asset transcoding is for just this case. Is this correct and I'm not wasting my time?

In Asset UPnP Configuration >> Advanced Settings >> Audio Format Streaming
ReplayGain is only applied to formats which are NOT set to 'as is'.

Q2. How does it actually apply the Gain? I want to use Album Gain, but does it assume a generic level and apply it to everything in the album and library? So if and when I add a new album I need only apply the codec to it rather than rescan them all, or I can select a subset or even just one album to try it out?

As tracks are transcoded by Asset, the volume is adjusted.

The ReplayGain Utility Codec and the ReplayGain DSP can write Album Gain and Track Gain tags. Both have a help icon, which explains how to use these utilities.

Also, you can try searching the forums as they contain a ton of info on ReplayGain, Album Gain, Track Gain, Reference Levels etc.

Asset UPnP can apply Album Gain or Track Gain.

I have set Asset to have Album Gain on by transcoding my FLACs to WAV and setting it to 24-bits. But then the manual says "also set the Active and Inactive pre-amp to -3 dB." Q3. I can't find this, and what does it mean and do?

Look in Asset UPnP Configuration >> Advanced Settings >> Audio Format Streaming
The Preamp setting is used to adjust target volume.

Finally Q4. Can it be undone once the codec has been applied?

There is a ReplayGain (Apply) DSP which is destructive and is only used where player/server software does not support ReplayGain, so cannot be undone.

However, the ReplayGain Utility Codec and the ReplayGain DSP only write tag values, so having the tags does no harm at all. If you do not want to use ReplayGain in your player/server, just turn it off (or delete the ReplayGain tags).

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

In Asset UPnP Configuration >> Advanced Settings >> Audio Format Streaming
ReplayGain is only applied to formats which are NOT set to 'as is'.

As tracks are transcoded by Asset, the volume is adjusted.

The ReplayGain Utility Codec and the ReplayGain DSP can write Album Gain and Track Gain tags. Both have a help icon, which explains how to use these utilities.

Also, you can try searching the forums as they contain a ton of info on ReplayGain, Album Gain, Track Gain, Reference Levels etc.

Asset UPnP can apply Album Gain or Track Gain.

Thank you for confirming I can use it regardless of renderer. I know I will have to transcode all my flacs to wav for it to be applied, that's not a problem.

Look in Asset UPnP Configuration >> Advanced Settings >> Audio Format Streaming
The Preamp setting is used to adjust target volume.

Th pre-amp settings are missing in my QNAP version of Asset. This is all there is:



Does this matter?

There is a ReplayGain (Apply) DSP which is destructive and is only used where player/server software does not support ReplayGain, so cannot be undone.

However, the ReplayGain Utility Codec and the ReplayGain DSP only write tag values, so having the tags does no harm at all. If you do not want to use ReplayGain in your player/server, just turn it off (or delete the ReplayGain tags).

I'll only be using the Utility Codec so that's put my mind at rest, thanks.

[mville]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

Th pre-amp settings are missing in my QNAP version of Asset. This is all there is:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1929[/ATTACH]

Does this matter?

It means that currently, you can't adjust the target volume. It may or may not matter to you.

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

It means that currently, you can't adjust the target volume. It may or may not matter to you.

I presume then this is a bug in QNAP Asset 6? Because I think it might. I have tried a test on an album. It does seem very quiet. The tag values it has given are an album_gain of -9.04dB, album_peak 0.999145. Does that seem excessive? And if I could change the target volume, I presume a +3 would be better than the -3 recommended in the manual?

[mville]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

I presume then this is a bug in QNAP Asset 6? Because I think it might. I have tried a test on an album. It does seem very quiet. The tag values it has given are an album_gain of -9.04dB, album_peak 0.999145. Does that seem excessive? And if I could change the target volume, I presume a +3 would be better than the -3 recommended in the manual?

I only have knowledge of Asset UPnP for Windows, so I don't know if it is a bug.

What settings did you use in the ReplayGain utility codec?

ReplayGain implementation is always quieter, to avoid clipping/distortion.

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

I know it should be quieter, but no need for that much for me anyway.
I used the default - EBU R128 and -18 LUFS Target volume. Perhaps that's too much? Would you suggest -9 would be better?
I'll post another thread about the missing pre-amp settings. Hopefully Spoon will have the answer. Thanks for your help.

[mville]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

I know it should be quieter, but no need for that much for me anyway.

There is solid reasoning for why the reference level and loudness standards are set as they are. If you are interested, there are many, many discussions on this, available on the web.

I used the default - EBU R128 and -18 LUFS Target volume. Perhaps that's too much? Would you suggest -9 would be better?

The EBU recommendation/standard is actually -23 LUFS, but many feel this is too low and so have adopted the -18 LUFS setting. I would not suggest -9 LUFS.

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

There is solid reasoning for why the reference level and loudness standards are set as they are. If you are interested, there are many, many discussions on this, available on the web.



The EBU recommendation/standard is actually -23 LUFS, but many feel this is too low and so have adopted the -18 LUFS setting. I would not suggest -9 LUFS.

OK, thanks. I'll wait to see what Spoon says about the pre-amp settings.

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

I think I have found the pre-amp gains. They seem to be within general settings called "Additional gain with ReplayGain (dB)" and "Additional gain without ReplayGain (dB)". I presume this is equivalent to the pre-amp Active and Inactive settings you have?

[PeterP]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

You are correct.

In Linux/QNAP versions of Asset, using the web configuration interface, the gain settings are in the general settings table, rather than grouped together with streaming options, but they are the same things.

We'll try to make these more consistent with other versions of Asset in a future update to prevent confusion.

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

Thanks Peter.
I have another question now that I have taken the plunge and set the album gain on. I had no idea this would happen as my test album was 44.1/16, but it seems that when transcoding Asset is not maintaining the original sample rate. I have many 48/96/192Hz albums, but using the transcode with Replay Gain on (at 24-bit) I am only ever getting 44.1/24, which isn't great. Is this expected behaviour, and if so, can it be changed to maintain the original sample rate please? I know this is possible as other servers do so when transcoding.

[timster67]

Re: Replay Gain basic questions

Thanks Peter.
I have another question now that I have taken the plunge and set the album gain on. I had no idea this would happen as my test album was 44.1/16, but it seems that when transcoding Asset is not maintaining the original sample rate. I have many 48/96/192Hz albums, but using the transcode with Replay Gain on (at 24-bit) I am only ever getting 44.1/24, which isn't great. Is this expected behaviour, and if so, can it be changed to maintain the original sample rate please? I know this is possible as other servers do so when transcoding.

I am going to start another thread on this as it's the transcoder, not replay gain.