Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

[Oggy]

Cheers Mville,

I have made those changes now.

But how, please, might you tag the ARTIST SORT for bands which include the leader's name alongside the size of the ensemble? For example:

Oscar Peterson Trio

Dave Brubeck Quartet

Miles Davis Quintet

Would it be:

Peterson, Oscar, Trio

Brubeck, Dave, Quartet

Davis, Miles, Quintet

Very much appreciated,

Paul

Hi Paul,

Just found The Dave Brubeck Quartet in Ds, and The Oscar Peterson Trio, in Ps!

So, be consistent!!

For your information, I will change Dave Brubeck, to Bs.

As has been said, this is purely personal preference.

[monsterjazzlick]

Hi Paul,

Just found The Dave Brubeck Quartet in Ds, and The Oscar Peterson Trio, in Ps!

So, be consistent!!

For your information, I will change Dave Brubeck, to Bs.

As has been said, this is purely personal preference.

Thanks Oggy, I am workin' on it man ...

[monsterjazzlick]

It all depends on how YOU want these artists sorted.

If you want Oscar Peterson Trio to be sorted under O, then Artist Sort = Oscar Peterson Trio is ok.

If you want Oscar Peterson Trio to be sorted under P, then Artist Sort = Peterson, Oscar, Trio is ok.

Hi Mville,

I prefer Oscar Peterson Trio under 'P'; so: 'Peterson, Oscar, Trio'.

I really appreciate your patience here!

I need to make some adjustments now ...

Cheers,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

From my point of view: while "Oscar Peterson" is a combination of a first and a last name and "Peterson, Oscar" is ok for a sort tag, "Oscar Peterson Trio" is a commonly used term in itself. But if you prefer to have "Oscar Peterson" in the near of his trio, quartet or whatever, why not the other way? It is your tagging!!! There are no standards except your own ones.

Dat Ei,

Many thanks.

I have an answer for you but I will type it up later as it will take a little bit of explaining ...

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

From my point of view: while "Oscar Peterson" is a combination of a first and a last name and "Peterson, Oscar" is ok for a sort tag, "Oscar Peterson Trio" is a commonly used term in itself. But if you prefer to have "Oscar Peterson" in the near of his trio, quartet or whatever, why not the other way? It is your tagging!!! There are no standards except your own ones.

Dat Ei,

I wanted to include the size of the ensemble somewhere within my tagging. I originally created a new tag called 'ENSEMBLE' but I ended up doing away with it because it because slightly conflicting; plus it was not recognised by one of my playback devices; and it was yet another tag to complete.

So now I state the size of the ensemble after the artist's name. Yes, many artists have the ensemble size incorporated
into their name (eg. John Coltrane Quartet) and so this scheme kinda works fine. However, I have used it for all artists regardless of whether or not it is a part of the ensembles official title. So, for instance, I have:

Miles Davis Septet

Oscar Peterson Quartet

Dave Brubeck Quintet

As you see, these are not the regular title for each group; but they do inform me of the ensemble size (ie. it's the Dave Brubeck Quartet with an extra member added):

size.jpg

Cheers,

Paul

[Dat Ei]

Ok, I see. I for myself prefer the offical title of the Ensemble, which is printed on the cover or in the booklet.

What would you do with a onetime cooperation of the Esbjörn Svensson Trio and the radio.string.quartet.vienna? Would it be the "Esbjörn Svensson.radio.string.septet.vienna"?


Dat Ei

[monsterjazzlick]

Ok, I see. I for myself prefer the offical title of the Ensemble, which is printed on the cover or in the booklet.

What would you do with a onetime cooperation of the Esbjörn Svensson Trio and the radio.string.quartet.vienna? Would it be the "Esbjörn Svensson.radio.string.septet.vienna"?

Dat Ei,

I would tag as:

Esbjörn Svensson Trio; Radio String Quartet Vienna

So, two separate artists; and I would lose the '.' in the latter ensemble.

Thanks,

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Hi again,

I wanted to check, please, the ARTIST SORT tag for the group: 'Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers':

Blakey.jpg

I have struggled a bit with this one, but to me the above looks to be correct?

Many thanks,

Paul

[Jailhouse]

You essentially want to sort under "Blakey." If he were a single artist, you would sort him as Blakey, Art. Anything else just needs to be appended to that after another comma. So in this case you get Blakey, Art, & The Jazz Messengers, which is the simplest and most readable solution. (You only need to force The to the end of a band name if it's normally the beginning of it.)

[monsterjazzlick]

You essentially want to sort under "Blakey." If he were a single artist, you would sort him as Blakey, Art. Anything else just needs to be appended to that after another comma. So in this case you get Blakey, Art, & The Jazz Messengers, which is the simplest and most readable solution. (You only need to force The to the end of a band name if it's normally the beginning of it.)

JH,

Thanks man. You really have got this stuff down mate!

I spent ages thinking about it but I now agree with your method.

Paul

[Jailhouse]

It just occurred to me that there is one way of naming a group that is harder to sort this way. For example, the group name for Jeff Lorber's fusion endeavors was originally The Jeff Lorber Fusion. (He later shortened it to Jeff Lorber Fusion. Thanks, Jeff!)

How to tackle that one? Lorber, Jeff, The Fusion implies that the band name is either "Jeff Lorber The Fusion" or, perhaps, "Jeff Lorber, The Fusion", neither of which is actually the case. Lorber, Jeff, Fusion, The is a total hash. If it were up to me, I would treat this as a special case and use Lorber, Jeff - The Jeff Lorber Fusion.

Of course, if you don't display Artist Sort in your player(s) it's a moot point, unless it somehow results in an artist list that doesn't look correctly sorted. But it does help maintain sanity when you're trying to decipher Artist Sort tags.

Since I don't even use Artist Sort I just skipped The and used Jeff Lorber Fusion as the Artist tag for all of his 'Fusion' albums. Because I can. Options!

[monsterjazzlick]

It just occurred to me that there is one way of naming a group that is harder to sort this way. For example, the group name for Jeff Lorber's fusion endeavors was originally The Jeff Lorber Fusion. (He later shortened it to Jeff Lorber Fusion. Thanks, Jeff!)

How to tackle that one? Lorber, Jeff, The Fusion implies that the band name is either "Jeff Lorber The Fusion" or, perhaps, "Jeff Lorber, The Fusion", neither of which is actually the case. Lorber, Jeff, Fusion, The is a total hash. If it were up to me, I would treat this as a special case and use Lorber, Jeff - The Jeff Lorber Fusion.

Of course, if you don't display Artist Sort in your player(s) it's a moot point, unless it somehow results in an artist list that doesn't look correctly sorted. But it does help maintain sanity when you're trying to decipher Artist Sort tags.

Since I don't even use Artist Sort I just skipped The and used Jeff Lorber Fusion as the Artist tag for all of his 'Fusion' albums. Because I can. Options!

Thanks a lot JH,

I would have actually thought the best option was: 'Lorber, Jeff, Fusion, The'!

But Lorber's dropping of the 'The' is obviously a neat and much appreciated resolution. Perhaps he owns 'dBpa'?!

Paul

[mville]

The idea of a tag with a corresponding sort tag, is that the tag is displayed, but is sorted by what is defined in the sort tag.

In an ideal world, we would never see the sort tag, anywhere (in the server/player).

[Jailhouse]

In an ideal world, we would never see the sort tag, anywhere (in the server/player).

While I couldn't think of a reason to do it, I wrote it that way because it's possible that someone, somewhere, actually does.

[monsterjazzlick]

It just occurred to me that there is one way of naming a group that is harder to sort this way. For example, the group name for Jeff Lorber's fusion endeavors was originally The Jeff Lorber Fusion. (He later shortened it to Jeff Lorber Fusion. Thanks, Jeff!)

How to tackle that one? Lorber, Jeff, The Fusion implies that the band name is either "Jeff Lorber The Fusion" or, perhaps, "Jeff Lorber, The Fusion", neither of which is actually the case. Lorber, Jeff, Fusion, The is a total hash. If it were up to me, I would treat this as a special case and use Lorber, Jeff - The Jeff Lorber Fusion.

Of course, if you don't display Artist Sort in your player(s) it's a moot point, unless it somehow results in an artist list that doesn't look correctly sorted. But it does help maintain sanity when you're trying to decipher Artist Sort tags.

Since I don't even use Artist Sort I just skipped The and used Jeff Lorber Fusion as the Artist tag for all of his 'Fusion' albums. Because I can. Options!

Hi again,

I have another ARTIST (Band) I am tagging containing similar data: 'The Tony Williams Lifetime'.

https://www.discogs.com/The-Tony-Wil...elease/2171911

Why TW used the word 'The' seems a bit pointless and less attractive to me than simply calling the outfit 'Tony Williams Lifetime'. Maybe it was because it was because his surname would need to be Williams's which caused them to prefer the word 'The'?

In 'dBpa' it appears, by default, as: 'Williams, Tony, Lifetime, The') I won't include a screenshot as they never seem to appear!); but I don't think you would agree with this format.

Cheers,

Paul