Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Karajan, is often called, simply Karajan, which is what I use, but ....

P.S. He was Austrian.

Oggy,

I didn't realise that; however, I never gave it too much though. I just assumed he was German because he is so widely associated as being the definitive Conductor of Beethoven's large scale works.

So would you omit the 'von' and just tag as:

CONDUCTOR = Herbert Karajan

CONDUCTORSORT = Karajan, Herbert

btw - he is also known by the nickname: 'Herbie von Superstar' (due to the immensity of his talent)!

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi JH,

That's great, cheers.

I had not thought of doing that, actually.

Yes, I can see the potential for confusion now that you have explained it!

If you own any CLASSICAL (esp. Beethoven), then you will be familiar with the world class German Conductor: Herbert von Karajan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_von_Karajan

He is the Conductor on all of my Beethoven symphony recordings. And so you would append as follows?:

von Karajan, Herbert

I plan to use the CONDUCTOR tags on my CLASSICALs.

I am not sure if the 'von' is a middle name or not? It's very common in Dutch names, as you will be aware.

Cheers,

Paul

Paul,



Don't know if this helps, but here are some of my Beethoven / Karajan.

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Oggy,

I didn't realise that; however, I never gave it too much though. I just assumed he was German because he is so widely associated as being the definitive Conductor of Beethoven's large scale works.

It's an easy mistake to make. Austria is, after all, a German-speaking country.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

This is tricky. In some online articles he is referred to as "von Karajan," and in others simply "Karajan." This is different to Ludwig von Beethoven, who is most always referred to as "Beethoven." If I were using a CONDUCTORSORT tag, I would go with Karajan, Herbert von, (and Beethoven, Ludwig von for COMPOSERSORT), since "von" isn't really a name per se.* Than again, in Karajan's case, if he's generally called "von Karajan," I would tag him as you did above. This may come down to personal preference.


* The "von" in German names translates to "from." ("Von" doesn't translate to anything in Dutch; you're thinking of "Van" [or "van"], which also means "from.")

Cheers JH,

That's really interesting.

I think in Dutch, you can find: ' van den Berg' and 'van de Valk', etc. I am no expert though, it is just something I have noticed in WWII documentaries I have watched (I love the 'PBS America cable channel!). Ditto for the likes of 'von Karajan' (in regards to Germany/Austria).

Anyway, I view 'HvK' WITH having the 'von' (personally I have never heard him [IIRC] being referred to as just 'Karjan'); but that is, of course, not saying that anyone (on here) is correct or not. If, similarly, I am to include the 'von' in Beethoven, then I don't think I want to be searching through the letter 'Vs'! And so (as you suggest) Beethoven, Ludwig von and Karajan, Herbert von is probably the best format I would say.

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Paul,

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2042[/ATTACH]

Don't know if this helps, but here are some of my Beethoven / Karajan.

Thanks Oggy,

In which particular way do you think this (screenshot) might help, please? To highlight the fact that the Conductor is referred to WITHOUT the 'von'?

I think we have the same 'Deutsche Gramaphone' Beethoven collection?; albeit mine have different artworks (they are all paintings).

Cheers.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

It's an easy mistake to make. Austria is, after all, a German-speaking country.

The relationship/similarities between the two countries is very interesting in the context of WWII. It was also known as 'Austria-Hungary' (as you will know).

I knew the CLASSICAL tagging was going to be very taxing for a newbie. Which is why I have left this GENRE until last. I think it would have been near impossible to have started out with this idiom, as well as finding one's feet with 'dBpa'.

[Oggy]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

So would you omit the 'von' and just tag as:

CONDUCTOR = Herbert Karajan

CONDUCTORSORT = Karajan, Herbert

Paul

Paul,

I used:

Ludwig van Beethoven

Beethoven, Ludwig van

and

Herbert von Karajan

Karajan, Herbert von

But Karajan, Herbert would give you what you want.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Paul,

I used:

Ludwig van Beethoven

Beethoven, Ludwig van

and

Herbert von Karajan

Karajan, Herbert von

But Karajan, Herbert would give you what you want.

Thanks Oggy,

I'm going with:

Ludwig van Beethoven

Beethoven, Ludwig van

and

Herbert von Karajan

Karajan, Herbert von

That seems favourite to my liking.

Much appreciated.

[Oggy]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Yes, it shows both Beethoven and Karajan.

It was a SACD / CD set of the popular 1963 cycle.

The overlay also shows how I named the symphonies; I'm probably going to delete the opus numbers.

I'm awaiting the Classical tagging debate with interest, as there are so many ways of naming Classical music, and I'm sure there is much to learn from other's ideas and solutions.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Yes, it shows both Beethoven and Karajan.

It was a SACD / CD set of the popular 1963 cycle.

OK, cheers Oggy.

My Beethoven Symph's were purchased individually. Two Symph's per disc.

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I view 'HvK' WITH having the 'von' (personally I have never heard him [IIRC] being referred to as just 'Karjan'); but that is, of course, not saying that anyone (on here) is correct or not. If, similarly, I am to include the 'von' in Beethoven, then I don't think I want to be searching through the letter 'Vs'! And so (as you suggest) Beethoven, Ludwig von and Karajan, Herbert von is probably the best format I would say.

There is nothing wrong with using "von Karajan" if you think of his last name that way. It comes down to where you want to find him--in the "K"s or the "V"s?

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Zut alors! All this time I've been thinking Ludwig von Beethoven when his name was Ludwig van Beethoven!

At least von and van are pronounced pretty much the same in German. Still, I'm aghast. I shall chastise myself severely.

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I knew the CLASSICAL tagging was going to be very taxing for a newbie. Which is why I have left this GENRE until last.

I haven't ripped any of my Classical discs, either. I'm thinking I'll have to keep them in a separate library. I'll be looking to determine whether a single instance of foobar2000 can handle both classical and pop/rock/jazz/etc playlists to my satisfaction. Barring that, I'll use a second, portable fb2k installation for the classics.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Zut alors! All this time I've been thinking Ludwig von Beethoven when his name was Ludwig van Beethoven!

At least von and van are pronounced pretty much the same in German. Still, I'm aghast. I shall chastise myself severely.

JH,

I did actually wonder if it was 'van' Beethoven when I initially read your reply yesterday. But I just assumed I myself had got it wrong for all these years! I mean, it's over 20 years since I was at college, so things are starting to get a bit murky now!

Anyway, thanks for clarifying and clearing up. I am ripping BACH at the moment, but BEETHOVEN will be next in line ...

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I haven't ripped any of my Classical discs, either. I'm thinking I'll have to keep them in a separate library. I'll be looking to determine whether a single instance of foobar2000 can handle both classical and pop/rock/jazz/etc playlists to my satisfaction. Barring that, I'll use a second, portable fb2k installation for the classics.

JH,

I won't really be able to let you know how Foobar handles classical and pop/rock/jazz/etc 'playlists' because I, personally, do not use 'playlists'.This may change in the future though.

Paul