Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi,

I am ripping my very first CLASSICAL CD (by minimalist Steve Reich)!:

"The Four Sections; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ"

https://www.discogs.com/Steve-Reich-...elease/1137741

The title of the CD is simply the two titles of the two compositions featured on the album.

Regarding the ALBUMSORT tag (if I am to use one) and the opening 'THE' in the title (of the first composition), would one tag this as:

ALBUMSORT = 'The Four Sections; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'

or,

ALBUMSORT = 'Four Sections, The; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nMz...ew?usp=sharing

Many thanks guys,

Paul

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I am going to use the ALBUMSORT tag in the way that Jailhouse suggests:

ALBUM = The Beatles

ALBUMSORT = Beatles, The

But I don't know if JH uses an ALBUMSORT tag for every single CD in his collection? I intend on using it exclusively for albums who's title have an opening 'THE'. And, therefore, albums without an opening 'THE' (in the title) will consequently not have an ALBUMSORT tag.

I don't use ALBUMSORT at all; like Oggy, I figure that an album name beginning with "The" belongs with the Ts. However, I agree with your handling of such album names because you've indicated that's the result you desire. (Did somebody say, "Options!"?) And that being the case, using ALBUMSORT only for those albums you wish to alphabetically relocate is a good idea.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I don't use ALBUMSORT at all; like Oggy, I figure that an album name beginning with "The" belongs with the Ts. However, I agree with your handling of such album names because you've indicated that's the result you desire. (Did somebody say, "Options!"?) And that being the case, using ALBUMSORT only for those albums you wish to alphabetically relocate is a good idea.

Thanks a lot JH,

At least I know I am on the right track now, cheers!

I notice you use the term 'relocate'. Is this your own choice wording, or is is used as 'standard' to describe such an action, please?

Paul

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I notice you use the term 'relocate'. Is this your own choice wording, or is is used as 'standard' to describe such an action, please?

I've never seen it used that way. I must have made it up!

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Regarding the ALBUMSORT tag (if I am to use one) and the opening 'THE' in the title (of the first composition), would one tag this as:

ALBUMSORT = 'The Four Sections; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'

or,

ALBUMSORT = 'Four Sections, The; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'

Hi,

I just wanted to double-check, please, which of the above two would be correct (regarding the 'THE')?

Cheers.

[Oggy]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi,

I just wanted to double-check, please, which of the above two would be correct (regarding the 'THE')?

Cheers.

Hi Paul,

If you are happy with The Four Sections displaying / sorting / not relocating, showing under Ts, then you do not need ALBUMSORT, if you want any of the above (choices!), and the album in Fs, then use the sort tag.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

If you are happy with The Four Sections displaying / sorting / not relocating, showing under Ts, then you do not need ALBUMSORT, if you want any of the above (choices!), and the album in Fs, then use the sort tag.

Thanks Oggy,

Then I will go with:

ALBUM = 'The Four Sections; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'

ALBUMSORT = 'Four Sections, The; Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices And Organ'

... so that it is consistent with all of my other tagging.

Paul

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi guys,

I have finally gotten to to point where I can begin to start ripping my CLASSICAL Genre (it's taken 7 months to get here!). And so I have some questions as I attempt to rip my first album:

'G.I. Gurdjieff: Sacred Hymns'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._G...:_Sacred_Hymns

I fully appreciate that some of these questions have kinda been touched upon across the forum, but I really would like to double-check before ripping because, for instance, I am curious as to if the tagging rules are slightly bent for CLASSICAL albums.

So, this album is performed (solo) by pianist: Keith Jarrett. Therefore, I am guessing I need to state Jarrett as the ARTIST? And the CD is featuring the music of spiritual-composer: Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff. Therefore, Gurdjieff is to be stated as the ALBUM ARTIST? A while back I ripped a JAZZ CD called: 'A Tribute To Miles Davis' which was performed by Herbie Hancock, and after Miles had passed away. I was kindly advised to list Miles Davis as the ALBUM ARTIST and Herbie Hancock as the ARTIST, which I did. Hence, I assume I follow the same rules in this instance?

Secondly, as you will know, many CLASSICAL composers use their full names (eg. Johann Sebastian Bach, George Frideric Handel, etc). Their names are often expressed with the first two initials abbreviated (J.S. Bach, G.F. Handel, etc). I would think that most 'dBpa' users would use the non-abbr. form?

In relation to the latter-mentioned, I wanted to double check, please, that if (as in the case of 'G.I. Gurdjieff: Sacred Hymns') I wanted to use the Composers full name in my tagging (ie. Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff), then how might I arrange the ALBUM ARTIST SORT, please?

Gurdjieff, Ivanovich, Georges

I do appreciate the above have been touched upon last year, but I wanted to clarify before ripping my CLASSICALs, because they comprise circa 20% of my overall collection.

Many thanks in advance,

Paul

[mville]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

So, this album is performed (solo) by pianist: Keith Jarrett. Therefore, I am guessing I need to state Jarrett as the ARTIST? And the CD is featuring the music of spiritual-composer: Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff. Therefore, Gurdjieff is to be stated as the ALBUM ARTIST? A while back I ripped a JAZZ CD called: 'A Tribute To Miles Davis' which was performed by Herbie Hancock, and after Miles had passed away. I was kindly advised to list Miles Davis as the ALBUM ARTIST and Herbie Hancock as the ARTIST, which I did. Hence, I assume I follow the same rules in this instance?

If this is what you want, only you can answer this question.

Secondly, as you will know, many CLASSICAL composers use their full names (eg. Johann Sebastian Bach, George Frideric Handel, etc). Their names are often expressed with the first two initials abbreviated (J.S. Bach, G.F. Handel, etc). I would think that most 'dBpa' users would use the non-abbr. form?

I use:
composer = Johann Sebastian Bach
composersort = Bach, Johann Sebastian.

In relation to the latter-mentioned, I wanted to double check, please, that if (as in the case of 'G.I. Gurdjieff: Sacred Hymns') I wanted to use the Composers full name in my tagging (ie. Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff), then how might I arrange the ALBUM ARTIST SORT, please?

Gurdjieff, Ivanovich, Georges

See above (substituting composer with album artist.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I use:
composer = Johann Sebastian Bach
composersort = Bach, Johann Sebastian.

Thanks a lot mville,

The COMPOSERs of the material on the CD are both: Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff and Thomas de Hartmann (although I am not listing the latter as an ALBUMARTIST because the CD and Wiki only list Gurdjieff as being so).

However, Hartmann is to be tagged as a (joint) COMPOSER; and therefore - if I was to use COMPOSERSORT - should I follow your above example, please?:

COMPOSERSORT = Hartmann, Thomas de

I ask because I have not, as yet, encountered French/Russian/Dutch names such as: de, van, vonn, etc.

Cheers,

Paul

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

I wanted to double check, please, that if (as in the case of 'G.I. Gurdjieff: Sacred Hymns') I wanted to use the Composers full name in my tagging (ie. Georges Ivanovich Gurdjieff), then how might I arrange the ALBUM ARTIST SORT, please?

Gurdjieff, Ivanovich, Georges

The standard method when middle name(s) are encountered is to simply append it/them to the first name without any additional commas.

Using the method above introduces ambiguity; a person unaware of how the format is used and without any knowledge of Classical composers will see "Bach, Sebastian, Johann" and be unclear as to whether that's Johann Bach or Sebastian Bach.

There is also the potential for incorrect sorting. Two composers who happen to be named, say, Stanley Edward Smith and John Robert Smith would be tagged and sorted as...

Smith, Edward, Stanley
Smith, Robert, John

... placing John Smith after Stanley Smith. Not good.

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hartmann is to be tagged as a (joint) COMPOSER; and therefore - if I was to use COMPOSERSORT - should I follow your above example, please?:

COMPOSERSORT = Hartmann, Thomas de

I ask because I have not, as yet, encountered French/Russian/Dutch names such as: de, van, vonn, etc.

He is referred to by last name as "de Hartmann". Thus, the tag would be de Hartmann, Thomas.

[monsterjazzlick]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

The standard method when middle name(s) are encountered is to simply append it/them to the first name without any additional commas.

Using the method above introduces ambiguity; a person unaware of how the format is used and without any knowledge of Classical composers will see "Bach, Sebastian, Johann" and be unclear as to whether that's Johann Bach or Sebastian Bach.

There is also the potential for incorrect sorting. Two composers who happen to be named, say, Stanley Edward Smith and John Robert Smith would be tagged and sorted as...

Smith, Edward, Stanley
Smith, Robert, John

... placing John Smith after Stanley Smith. Not good.

Hi JH,

That's great, cheers.

I had not thought of doing that, actually.

Yes, I can see the potential for confusion now that you have explained it!

If you own any CLASSICAL (esp. Beethoven), then you will be familiar with the world class German Conductor: Herbert von Karajan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_von_Karajan

He is the Conductor on all of my Beethoven symphony recordings. And so you would append as follows?:

von Karajan, Herbert

I plan to use the CONDUCTOR tags on my CLASSICALs.

I am not sure if the 'von' is a middle name or not? It's very common in Dutch names, as you will be aware.

Cheers,

Paul

[Oggy]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

Hi JH,

That's great, cheers.

I had not thought of doing that, actually.

Yes, I can see the potential for confusion now that you have explained it!

If you own any CLASSICAL (esp. Beethoven), then you will be familiar with the world class German Conductor: Herbert von Karajan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_von_Karajan

He is the Conductor on all of my Beethoven symphony recordings. And so you would append as follows?:

von Karajan, Herbert

I plan to use the CONDUCTOR tags on my CLASSICALs.

I am not sure if the 'von' is a middle name or not? It's very common in Dutch names, as you will be aware.

Cheers,

Paul

Hi Paul,

Karajan, is often called, simply Karajan, which is what I use, but .....



P.S. He was Austrian.

[Jailhouse]

Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

If you own any CLASSICAL (esp. Beethoven), then you will be familiar with the world class German Conductor: Herbert von Karajan.

He is the Conductor on all of my Beethoven symphony recordings. And so you would append as follows?:

von Karajan, Herbert

I plan to use the CONDUCTOR tags on my CLASSICALs.

I am not sure if the 'von' is a middle name or not? It's very common in Dutch names, as you will be aware.

This is tricky. In some online articles he is referred to as "von Karajan," and in others simply "Karajan." This is different to Ludwig von Beethoven, who is most always referred to as "Beethoven." If I were using a CONDUCTORSORT tag, I would go with Karajan, Herbert von, (and Beethoven, Ludwig von for COMPOSERSORT), since "von" isn't really a name per se.* Than again, in Karajan's case, if he's generally called "von Karajan," I would tag him as you did above. This may come down to personal preference.


* The "von" in German names translates to "from." ("Von" doesn't translate to anything in Dutch; you're thinking of "Van" [or "van"], which also means "from.")