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Thread: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

  1. #166
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Hi JH,

    I am ripping my Herbie Hancock CDs now. I wanted to check please, for his album 'Head Hunters':

    https://www.discogs.com/Herbie-Hanco.../release/31381

    ALBUM = Head Hunters

    ARTIST = Herbie Hancock Head Hunters

    ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie, Head Hunters

    'Head Hunters' is the name of the band, and I would like the ARTIST SORT tag to sort via 'Hancock' (ie. his surname).

    Thankfully there is no 'The' preceding the band name! Personally - grammatically speaking - I believe it should be: 'Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters' (ie. because it is belonging to).
    Herbie Hancock is the artist, and the album name is "Head Hunters." In the accompanying CD booklet, the players (including Hancock) are listed under the header "The Herbie Hancock Group." Nowhere do I see any indication of a "Head Hunters" band name. Even the Discogs page you linked to gives the artist name as simply "Herbie Hancock."
    Last edited by Jailhouse; 11-20-2017 at 07:57 PM.

  2. #167
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Hi Paul,

    Artist = Herbie Hancock, Headhunters

    Artist Sort = Hancock Herbie, Headhunters

    Is how I see it.

    If it was The Headhunters

    Artist Sort = Hancock, Herbie, Headhunters, The
    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    Herbie Hancock is the artist, and the album name is "Head Hunters." In the accompanying CD booklet, the players (including Hancock) are listed under the header "The Herbie Hancock Group." Nowhere do I see any indication of a "Head Hunters" band name. Even the Discogs page you linked to gives the artist name as simply "Herbie Hancock."
    In Wikipedia the comments about the Head Hunter album read, "For the new album, Hancock assembled a new band, the Headhunters....."

    This name may, or may not come about later.

    I tagged mine simply as Herbie Hancock, BUT, unlike Paul, I am very much a casual jazz fan.
    Last edited by Oggy; 11-20-2017 at 11:43 PM.

  3. #168
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    Herbie Hancock is the artist, and the album name is "Head Hunters." In the accompanying CD booklet, the players (including Hancock) are listed under the header "The Herbie Hancock Group." Nowhere do I see any indication of a "Head Hunters" band name. Even the Discogs page you linked to gives the artist name as simply "Herbie Hancock."
    Hi JH,

    Technically you are absolutely correct. But, in the jazz world, everyone says Hancock's 'Headhunters' band.

    In the 1970s, H.H. had three bands (you probably knew that already): and so - for the sake of convenience I suppose - when conversing people use 'Headhunters' to pinpoint exactly which unit they are talking about.

    The other two bands he led during the 1970's were 'VSOP' and 'Mwandishi'; so by stating 'Headhunter's helps one to differentiate.


    Thanks,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-21-2017 at 05:56 AM. Reason: Image

  4. #169
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Hi JH,

    Technically you are absolutely correct. But, in the jazz world, everyone says Hancock's 'Headhunters' band.

    In the 1970s, H.H. had three bands (you probably knew that already): and so - for the sake of convenience I suppose - when conversing people use 'Headhunters' to pinpoint exactly which unit they are talking about.

    The other two bands he led during the 1970's were 'VSOP' and 'Mwandishi'; so by stating 'Headhunter's helps one to differentiate.

    Okay, I checked further. (Thanks for the link, Oggy!) According to Wikipedia, Hancock formed The Headhunters in 1973 to record the Head Hunters album. Given the liner notes, I'm guessing the idea to call the group 'The Headhunters' came after the album was released and sold roughly a bazillion copies, and they decided to record together again. I'm going to stick with the 'Herbie Hancock' tag.

    Excerpts from Wikipedia:

    In 1975, The Headhunters recorded Survival of the Fittest, their first album without Hancock. [...]

    As the 1970s turned to the 1980s, Hancock drifted away from the band as he moved into his electro-oriented phase, and they ceased operation as a visible unit. The band reunited with Hancock for the 1998 album
    Return of the Headhunters.

    So, for Hancock, The Headhunters was a sometimes thing. Not that he was the first, or last, to work that way; musicians in general, and jazz musicians in particular, are wont to be a rather flighty bunch.

    Paul, thanks for the information about the other bands. I didn't know about them, as Head Hunters is the only Herbie Hancock release I own to date. I might, in time, add some of his 'electro-oriented' work.

  5. #170
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    Okay, I checked further. (Thanks for the link, Oggy!) According to Wikipedia, Hancock formed The Headhunters in 1973 to record the Head Hunters album. Given the liner notes, I'm guessing the idea to call the group 'The Headhunters' came after the album was released and sold roughly a bazillion copies, and they decided to record together again. I'm going to stick with the 'Herbie Hancock' tag.

    So, for Hancock, The Headhunters was a sometimes thing. Not that he was the first, or last, to work that way; musicians in general, and jazz musicians in particular, are wont to be a rather flighty bunch.

    Paul, thanks for the information about the other bands. I didn't know about them, as Head Hunters is the only Herbie Hancock release I own to date. I might, in time, add some of his 'electro-oriented' work.
    Hi JH,

    Thanks for your very informative reply. We all learn from each other; it's what makes the world (or even the www) go round!

    If you want any recommendations on Hancock's material then I can advise what might be a good path (and path to avoid!). But of course You-Tube is your more immediate friend and I am sure you are blessed with a good set of ears!

    I only knew that the H.H. band was called 'The Headhunters' from reading the Miles Davis biography. He mentions how he had to often play support band to The Headhunters in the 70s when he (Davis) was losing popularity. Not that he was offended, but rather that he was obviously used to being the main-act. Otherwise, I was like you in that I thought it was just the name of an album. Yes, it probably was a money spinner.

    Very interestingly, and you have just made me notice this!, Chick Corea's FIRST 'Return To Forever' album was called 'Return To Forever'! And Corea took it a stage further and called the opening song 'Return To Forever'. More money/royalties for L.Ron Hubbard I guess!

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-21-2017 at 03:50 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #171
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Artist = Herbie Hancock, Headhunters

    Artist Sort = Hancock Herbie, Headhunters

    Is how I see it.

    If it was The Headhunters

    Artist Sort = Hancock, Herbie, Headhunters, The
    Hi Oggy,

    I decided to lose the 'The'. Not sure if Hancock ever intended it to be there ever?; I don't think he did.

    And so it is tagged as:

    ARTIST = Herbie Hancock Headhunters

    ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie, Headhunters

    I saw it a little different to yourself regarding the placement of the commas. This fits with how I have named bands of similar ilk (please see: 'Tony Williams Lifetime' post {earlier in this thread}).

    Paul

  7. #172
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Hi Oggy,

    I decided to lose the 'The'. Not sure if Hancock ever intended it to be there ever?; I don't think he did.

    And so it is tagged as:

    ARTIST = Herbie Hancock Headhunters

    ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie, Headhunters

    I saw it a little different to yourself regarding the placement of the commas. This fits with how I have named bands of similar ilk (please see: 'Tony Williams Lifetime' post {earlier in this thread}).
    For what it's worth, Wikipedia lists the band as The Headhunters.

    I doubt that the lack of commas will negatively affect sorts very often. Even when it does happen, it would be easy to fix.

  8. #173
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    I doubt that the lack of commas will negatively affect sorts very often. Even when it does happen, it would be easy to fix.
    Hi JH,

    Yes, that is correct. But, as you will of course know, Wiki is often wrong!; I am making corrections to the site on a daily basis!

    Even CD liner notes are often inaccurate (esp. 60s/70s Miles Davis).

    I am at the stage now where I sometimes twist things slightly in order to make them fit perfectly within my naming-scheme.

    Cheers,

    Paul

  9. #174
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Hi,

    I have an album which is a joint artist:

    'Live At Carnegie Hall' - Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker Quintet

    I am really not sure, please, what would be the best approach here?

    I don't want to create a tag:

    Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker Quintet

    I would prefer there to be two ALBUM ARTISTS, so:

    Dizzy Gillespie; Charlie Parker

    And for ARTIST SORT:

    Gillespie, Dizzy; Parker, Charlie

    BUT, to include the ensemble-size '(Quintet)' - which I always place in brackets - would the best method be to tag as:

    ARTIST = Dizzy Gillespie (Quintet); Charlie Parker (Quintet)

    ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy, (Quintet); Parker, Charlie, (Quintet)

    ALBUM ARTIST= Dizzy Gillespie; Charlie Parker

    ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy; Parker, Charlie

    Basically, I would be tagging the ARTIST as though it is two separate bandleaders. I believe this would be the best way for me to maintain consistency with my scheming to date.

    Many thanks,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-27-2017 at 09:00 AM. Reason: spelling

  10. #175
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    I would prefer there to be two ALBUM ARTISTS, so:
    Dizzy Gillespie; Charlie Parker

    And for ARTIST SORT:
    Gillespie, Dizzy; Parker, Charlie
    Don't you mean ALBUM ARTIST SORT and not ARTIST SORT?

  11. #176
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy; Parker, Charlie
    Corrected typo:

    ARTIST = Dizzy Gillespie (Quintet); Charlie Parker (Quintet)

    ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy, (Quintet); Parker, Charlie, (Quintet)

    ALBUM ARTIST SORT= Dizzy Gillespie; Charlie Parker

  12. #177
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    I don't want to create a tag:

    Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker Quintet

    I would prefer there to be two ALBUM ARTISTS, so:

    Dizzy Gillespie; Charlie Parker

    And for ARTIST SORT:

    Gillespie, Dizzy; Parker, Charlie

    BUT, to include the ensemble-size '(Quintet)' - which I always place in brackets - would the best method be to tag as:

    ARTIST = Dizzy Gillespie (Quintet); Charlie Parker (Quintet)

    ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy, (Quintet); Parker, Charlie, (Quintet)

    ALBUM ARTIST= Dizzy Gillespie; Charlie Parker

    ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy; Parker, Charlie

    Basically, I would be tagging the ARTIST as though it is two separate bandleaders. I believe this would be the best way for me to maintain consistency with my scheming to date.
    If you don't want Artist = Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker Quintet, but 2 Artists, then:
    Artist = Dizzy Gillespie (Quintet); Charlie Parker (Quintet) looks fine.

    In this case, I would then have ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy (Quintet); Parker, Charlie (Quintet)

  13. #178
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    If you don't want Artist = Dizzy Gillespie & Charlie Parker Quintet, but 2 Artists, then:
    Artist = Dizzy Gillespie (Quintet); Charlie Parker (Quintet) looks fine.

    In this case, I would then have ARTIST SORT = Gillespie, Dizzy (Quintet); Parker, Charlie (Quintet)
    That's great, I will have a mess around. Many thanks.

  14. #179
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Hi,

    I am finally down to ripping the last Artist (Weather Report) of the Jazz section in my CD collection.

    Many of their albums (from 1970~1985) where recorded in different sessions. However, some spill over into the next year. And so, 'Mysterious Traveller' was recorded in: 1973 to 1974 (I don't ever bother with 'months'). The problem is that I am not able to source the year in which each individual track was recorded (I have searched high and low).

    Therefore, my question is, please, what would you state in the YEAR field (this value would be for ALL tracks)?:

    YEAR = 1973, 1974

    YEAR = 1973 \ 1974

    YEAR = 1973~1974

    The punctuations I have used so far in my tagging scheme are:

    , ; \ ~


    Many Thanks,

    Paul

  15. #180
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Many of their albums (from 1970~1985) where recorded in different sessions. However, some spill over into the next year. And so, 'Mysterious Traveller' was recorded in: 1973 to 1974 (I don't ever bother with 'months'). The problem is that I am not able to source the year in which each individual track was recorded (I have searched high and low).

    Therefore, my question is, please, what would you state in the YEAR field (this value would be for ALL tracks)?:
    YEAR = 1973, 1974

    YEAR = 1973 \ 1974

    YEAR = 1973~1974
    Difficult to answer this, as your use of YEAR is non-standard. Most users will populate YEAR with the CD release data or the Original Album release date, which is a single year.

    Also, I'm not sure what issues you will run into with software, which might expect a single date in the usual formats e.g. yyyy, yyyy-mm-dd, dd-mm-yyyy etc.

    I think you'll have to experiment yourself and see what you get in your server/player software(s).

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