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Thread: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

  1. #151
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    So no artist(s) listed? What about the CD album title? Any catalog numbers, barcodes etc?
    mville,

    Just a blank reverse side on the sleeve!

    I only have the LINK I included earlier:


    On the CD it states: 'ILM-406'; which apparently is an abbreviation for 'I Love Music'.

    The CD title is just the generic: 'Christmas Jazz'.

    I think the record label just got a bunch of Jazz session musicians together and got them to jam over the twelve Xmas songs. In other words, it was a one-off session - everyone played, got paid, and went home!

    Thanks,

    Paul

  2. #152
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    The page on Discogs says ILM 046. Does the CD itself show ILM 406, or did you transpose digits?

    Not that it matters much. Searching on either doesn't result in anything useful that I can see.

  3. #153
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    The page on Discogs says ILM 046. Does the CD itself show ILM 406, or did you transpose digits?

    Not that it matters much. Searching on either doesn't result in anything useful that I can see.
    Thanks a lot for checking JH.

    On the CD its '046'. My typo earlier!

    Paul

  4. #154
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    I have a number of CDs with no artist listed, or where the artist is some generic name, quite common for the "bargain basement" CDs, either session musicians or they bought (or stole) the material from the Caribbean steelband and just issued the CD. I have one particular one where the same tracks have been issued about 10 times with different names for the CD title and sometimes name of the band. I use "unattributed" for the artist and album artist for the cases where no or an obviously fake artist is used, I fill that in because it is part of my naming string.

    I leave the composer blank in the many cases for pop Caribbean CDs (and often pop music in general) where the composer is not listed, and often even when it is, if it doesn't come up in the online databases. Someone else can go to the trouble of researching that, I have enough trouble cleaning up messed up titles and artists. One exception, Classical, there the composer is vital. And there I add the composer's name in parenthesis after the title like Fifth Symphony (Beethoven) because my portable players and car don't display the composer at all, and there are many fifth symphonies. Composers are not in my naming string, and I rarely sort on them except for classical.

    I try to always fill in a genre, sometimes by track. My arbitrary choice, often by actually listening before ripping. I use a lot of semicolons in Genre so stuff appears under more than one sort when playing. For instance, Steelband; Christmas. or Rock; Christmas. If I were starting over again, I'd use style for some of this, although I'm not sure my portable player app supports it. But I'm not going to change this now on 60K tracks! Not in my naming string but I do sort to play (or not play) a particular genre.

    Just my method, this is all personal preference and in my case past history.

  5. #155
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidj View Post
    If I were starting over again, I'd use style for some of this, although I'm not sure my portable player app supports it. But I'm not going to change this now on 60K tracks!
    Hi monsterjazzlick & schmidj!

    Me too realized that I needed Style when I had already tagged a big part of my collection... I bit the bullet and retagged, since I felt I needed to restrict Genre as I had too many. I looked at the genres allmusic use and adjusted them a little to my liking. So now I have a fixed list of genres that I obey, but allow full freedom within the Style tag instead.

    When browsing my collection, I feel that sometimes I need to browse wide (genre) and sometimes I need to narrow it down (style). It's very practical to have these choices, so I'm glad I retagged.

  6. #156
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidj View Post
    I have a number of CDs with no artist listed, or where the artist is some generic name, quite common for the "bargain basement" CDs, either session musicians or they bought (or stole) the material from the Caribbean steelband and just issued the CD. I have one particular one where the same tracks have been issued about 10 times with different names for the CD title and sometimes name of the band. I use "unattributed" for the artist and album artist for the cases where no or an obviously fake artist is used, I fill that in because it is part of my naming string.

    I leave the composer blank in the many cases for pop Caribbean CDs (and often pop music in general) where the composer is not listed, and often even when it is, if it doesn't come up in the online databases. Someone else can go to the trouble of researching that, I have enough trouble cleaning up messed up titles and artists. One exception, Classical, there the composer is vital. And there I add the composer's name in parenthesis after the title like Fifth Symphony (Beethoven) because my portable players and car don't display the composer at all, and there are many fifth symphonies. Composers are not in my naming string, and I rarely sort on them except for classical.

    I try to always fill in a genre, sometimes by track. My arbitrary choice, often by actually listening before ripping. I use a lot of semicolons in Genre so stuff appears under more than one sort when playing. For instance, Steelband; Christmas. or Rock; Christmas. If I were starting over again, I'd use style for some of this, although I'm not sure my portable player app supports it. But I'm not going to change this now on 60K tracks! Not in my naming string but I do sort to play (or not play) a particular genre.
    Hi Schmidj,

    While I actually much prefer the term "unattributed", I am going to remain consistent with the scheme I have used so far (ie. 'Unknown'). I prefer not to have more than one definition for an tag aspect which is essentially blank.

    I do have quite a few CDs (possibly 100 so far) in which there is one tag aspect which is 'Unknown' (eg. Producer, Recording Date), but only 1 CD (ie. 'Christmas Jazz') where the Artist is 'Unknown'.

    I tend to avoid purchasing bargain-basket CDs because I know I will crave the recording information! This 'Christmas Jazz' album fell in my lap and the only reason I am keeping it is because, rather surprisingly, the music is well above average! I am not a fan of Xmas music (I have never bought an Xmas album myself) but just in case I need to provide something of this genre (for whatever reason) then at least I have something to offer. And because it's Jazz I actually don't mind it so much.

    I do use GENRE and STYLE tags on every rip. The latter being particularly handy. But with only one value in each.

    I have not got around to ripping my Classical collection yet. Going to be a job for next year at this rate ...

    Thanks,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-17-2017 at 03:35 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #157
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by evasv View Post
    Hi monsterjazzlick & schmidj!

    Me too realized that I needed Style when I had already tagged a big part of my collection... I bit the bullet and retagged, since I felt I needed to restrict Genre as I had too many. I looked at the genres allmusic use and adjusted them a little to my liking. So now I have a fixed list of genres that I obey, but allow full freedom within the Style tag instead.

    When browsing my collection, I feel that sometimes I need to browse wide (genre) and sometimes I need to narrow it down (style). It's very practical to have these choices, so I'm glad I retagged.
    Hi evasv,

    Out of interest, how many different Genres do you have?

  8. #158
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Hi evasv,

    Out of interest, how many different Genres do you have?
    These are my genres:

    Avant-Garde
    Blues
    Children's
    Classical
    Comedy
    Country
    Easy Listening
    Electronic
    Ethnic
    Folk
    Holiday
    International
    Jazz
    Latin
    Miscellaneous
    New Age
    Pop/Rock
    R&B
    Rap
    Reggae
    Religious
    Stage & Screen
    Vocal


    So it adds up to 23 genres, but I don't yet use all of them. Do you have more or less?

    I took the genres from Allmusic.com, but I think I added Ethnic and Miscellaneous. The latter because I have some odd albums with bird songs and technical CD's for HiFi testing etc.

    Allmusic don't separate Pop from Rock, and I struggled with this. I was used to separate them, but realized that Pop/Rock is actually better for me. As these two genres blend into each other so much, I prefer to have them listed together when I browse. But I have them separated in the Style tag instead, in case I want to browse for Rock only.

    I also struggled with Opera, which I saw as a genre before, but now degraded to a style. In the end I submitted to the fact that Opera is actually a sub-genre to Classical. The logic is better this way, even if my previous feeling didn't agree. My feeling has now matured, and agrees with my logic.

    I don't know if Allmusic invented this list or if it's widely used, but I think it works well as "top domain" for every sub-genre (=style) that I can think of. It works for me since I have music from most of these genres, but if you only have pop, rock and jazz it wouldn't be practical of course.

    One advantage with this list is that it's easy to "nail" the genre. I never think twice before populating this tag, so I always know that it's accurate. Not so easy with the Style tag, but I'm much less worried about accuracy there and use multiples if I'm uncertain.

    Another thing I like is that I can browse Genre > Jazz > Style and be presented with a list of my jazz styles only.

    Dear monsterjazzlick, I hope I haven't polluted your thread too much with this OT babble...

  9. #159
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by evasv View Post
    Dear monsterjazzlick, I hope I haven't polluted your thread too much with this OT babble...
    Evasv,

    It's not really OT, thanks. Though you may want to start your own thread if the discussion begins to widen further.

    Personally, I avoid AllMusic because I have found it has very little to offer and is highly inaccurate when the data is cross-referenced. However, I have only ripped my Jazz GENRE so far and so it may be different for other musics? I do refer to Discogs quite often for further information (esp. Release Dates).

    Paul.
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-18-2017 at 04:39 PM. Reason: spelling

  10. #160
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by evasv View Post
    These are my genres:

    Avant-Garde
    Blues
    Children's
    Classical
    Comedy
    Country
    Easy Listening
    Electronic
    Ethnic
    Folk
    Holiday
    International
    Jazz
    Latin
    Miscellaneous
    New Age
    Pop/Rock
    R&B
    Rap
    Reggae
    Religious
    Stage & Screen
    Vocal


    So it adds up to 23 genres, but I don't yet use all of them. Do you have more or less?

    I took the genres from Allmusic.com, but I think I added Ethnic and Miscellaneous. The latter because I have some odd albums with bird songs and technical CD's for HiFi testing etc.

    Allmusic don't separate Pop from Rock, and I struggled with this. I was used to separate them, but realized that Pop/Rock is actually better for me. As these two genres blend into each other so much, I prefer to have them listed together when I browse. But I have them separated in the Style tag instead, in case I want to browse for Rock only.

    I also struggled with Opera, which I saw as a genre before, but now degraded to a style. In the end I submitted to the fact that Opera is actually a sub-genre to Classical. The logic is better this way, even if my previous feeling didn't agree. My feeling has now matured, and agrees with my logic.

    I don't know if Allmusic invented this list or if it's widely used, but I think it works well as "top domain" for every sub-genre (=style) that I can think of. It works for me since I have music from most of these genres, but if you only have pop, rock and jazz it wouldn't be practical of course.

    One advantage with this list is that it's easy to "nail" the genre. I never think twice before populating this tag, so I always know that it's accurate. Not so easy with the Style tag, but I'm much less worried about accuracy there and use multiples if I'm uncertain.

    Another thing I like is that I can browse Genre > Jazz > Style and be presented with a list of my jazz styles only.

    Dear monsterjazzlick, I hope I haven't polluted your thread too much with this OT babble...
    Thanks for the reply, and Paul, sorry about going off tangent in your thread (and for the wrong Cool Notes link! ).

    The ultimate answer to my number of Genres?

    42

    Rather than muddle Paul's thread further, I will start a new one in General, titled, Genre / Style.

  11. #161
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Rather than muddle Paul's thread further, I will start a new one in General, titled, Genre / Style.
    OK, cheers. Thanks a lot. Paul

  12. #162
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    If you want to sort by surname, it has to come first. A Williams, Tony, Lifetime tag would work fine; adding The at the end is superfluous, as it doesn't change the sort order.
    Hi JH,

    I am ripping my Herbie Hancock CDs now. I wanted to check please, for his album 'Head Hunters':

    https://www.discogs.com/Herbie-Hanco.../release/31381

    ALBUM = Head Hunters

    ARTIST = Herbie Hancock Head Hunters

    ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie, Head Hunters

    'Head Hunters' is the name of the band, and I would like the ARTIST SORT tag to sort via 'Hancock' (ie. his surname).

    Thankfully there is no 'The' preceding the band name! Personally - grammatically speaking - I believe it should be: 'Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters' (ie. because it is belonging to).

    Many thanks,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-20-2017 at 09:58 AM. Reason: LINK

  13. #163
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Hi JH,

    I am ripping my Herbie Hancock CDs now. I wanted to check please, for his album 'Head Hunters':

    https://www.discogs.com/Herbie-Hanco.../release/31381

    ALBUM = Head Hunters

    ARTIST = Herbie Hancock Head Hunters

    ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie, Head Hunters

    'Head Hunters' is the name of the band, and I would like the ARTIST SORT tag to sort via 'Hancock' (ie. his surname).

    Thankfully there is no 'The' preceding the band name! Personally - grammatically speaking - I believe it should be: 'Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters' (ie. because it is belonging to).

    Many thanks,

    Paul
    Hi Paul,

    Head Hunters is a great album!

    Do you also use Album Artist = Herbie Hancock, and Sort = Hancock, Herbie, or do you not see this as a Herbie Hancock album?

  14. #164
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    Question Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Head Hunters is a great album!

    Do you also use Album Artist = Herbie Hancock, and Sort = Hancock, Herbie, or do you not see this as a Herbie Hancock album?
    Hi Oggy,

    Yes, it's a classic album! (Genre = Jazz; Style = Funk.)

    ALBUM ARTIST = Herbie Hancock

    ALBUM ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie

    So my question really only applies to ARTIST and ARTIST SORT, please.

    Thanks,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 11-20-2017 at 03:09 PM. Reason: spelling

  15. #165
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    Re: Tags, Tags, and more Tags ...

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Hi JH,

    I am ripping my Herbie Hancock CDs now. I wanted to check please, for his album 'Head Hunters':

    https://www.discogs.com/Herbie-Hanco.../release/31381

    ALBUM = Head Hunters

    ARTIST = Herbie Hancock Head Hunters

    ARTIST SORT = Hancock, Herbie, Head Hunters

    'Head Hunters' is the name of the band, and I would like the ARTIST SORT tag to sort via 'Hancock' (ie. his surname).

    Thankfully there is no 'The' preceding the band name! Personally - grammatically speaking - I believe it should be: 'Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters' (ie. because it is belonging to).

    Many thanks,

    Paul
    Hi Paul,

    Artist = Herbie Hancock, Headhunters

    Artist Sort = Hancock Herbie, Headhunters

    Is how I see it.

    If it was The Headhunters

    Artist Sort = Hancock, Herbie, Headhunters, The

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