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Thread: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

  1. #16
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    I do expect some disks in my 1000+ collection with some disks > 30 years showing up with errors, would I? For these ones I'd like a setup to really rip as secure as possible using all measures provided (e.g., n-times overread with slower speeds, C2 if possible).
    You will have CDs that are not in the AccurateRip database and you will have CDs with errors, due to manufacturing errors or dirt/scratches/damage etc. If you have followed Spoon's setup guides in the online help, then you should be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    I thought that all the option to secure rip besides AccurateRip are really the distinctive features of dbPA. Otherwise one could just use one of the other available rip tools which also support AccurateRip if not for these features.
    Sorry, I really don't know what you are getting at here. If you aren't happy with the secure rip options, obviously, you can use one of the other ripping apps.

    IMO, there are many distinctive features of dBpoweramp Music Converter, not just it's ripping options.

  2. #17
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Strange, page 2 is showing as available, but I can't get to it, anyone else?

    ... ok good, posting this post fixed the page 2 issue I was having.

    Very odd though as there are no other posts showing on this page.
    Last edited by mville; 09-07-2017 at 05:34 PM. Reason: explaination of this dummy post

  3. #18
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    Ok, I don't want to get picky here but I would doubt you would be aware of a corrupted flac unless you manually check the CRC included for every track or listen to every track in you (large i guess) library repeatedly as you confirmed on doing also.
    I've just had a double take on this statement. How very dare you!!

  4. #19

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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    As I said earlier, I run the Test Conversion. Are you saying that Test Conversion does NOT report corrupted flacs?

    ... also, if flacs were corrupt, then this would be reflected in the PerfectTUNES AccurateRip module, which I also run.

    I rely on these tools to help me in the area of file corruption. If you doubt that these tools will report corruption, as I had assumed, I would like to know. Please can you enlighten me and by all means, be picky as this is important stuff?
    I don't know if my posts are really that ambiguous closely re-reading what I posted. I try to be even more concise:

    No, I am certainly not saying that Test Conversion would NOT report corrupt files.

    I did say, though, that

    1. you have to trigger the Test Conversion dedicated integrity check process manually unless their is an automation/scripting option. Still, even if there is one
    2. having a dedicated integrity check process for one type of files (FLAC etc.) where you could have a fully automated integrity check process for all of your files on the file system (like with ZFS), I personally would prefer the latter one (see final comment below).
    3. having merely a dedicated integrity check process does not help you in case of an error detected. You would have to re-rip your CD or restore it from a backup. In any case, built-in redundancy and resilvering in ZFS (or BTRFS) would do this for you automatically.

    I don't want to continuously invest time into thinking about my data integrity and to take appropriate measures depending on the individual file types when there is now a technically sound solution available also for consumer grade products. Everybody is completely free to choose how they want to handle it and I don't want to evangelize anyone here. But I personally have drawn my own conclusion to the problem of data integrity and I am really just following Spoon's advice rip once - rip right', see https://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper-setup-guide.htm

    best

  5. #20

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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    You will have CDs that are not in the AccurateRip database and you will have CDs with errors, due to manufacturing errors or dirt/scratches/damage etc. If you have followed Spoon's setup guides in the online help, then you should be fine.



    Sorry, I really don't know what you are getting at here. If you aren't happy with the secure rip options, obviously, you can use one of the other ripping apps.

    IMO, there are many distinctive features of dBpoweramp Music Converter, not just it's ripping options.
    So I try to make it as clear as possible (once again).

    1. I do want to set-up secure ripping for my LIT-ON iHAS 124 f drives as specified in the online help. Unfortunately, the process as described does not work for setting up the C2 error handling and I have doubts my drives don't cache and I just asked the forum friends with the same drive (top of 2016 list) to report on their settings as cross-validation.

    2. Unfortunately I don't get answers to the secure rip setup problem I have but you yourself has posted:

    "What you need to be testing for is whether you can get AccurateRips, or not. If you get successful AccurateRips, your drive is configured OK."

    But this is not true, isn't it? AccurateRip is only the first layer of secure ripping dbPA supports. I just want to set it up so that it can handle scratched or damaged disks as good as possible where AccurateRip will fail as you have confirmed above.

    best

  6. #21
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    1. you have to trigger the Test Conversion dedicated integrity check process manually unless their is an automation/scripting option.
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    2. having a dedicated integrity check process for one type of files (FLAC etc.) where you could have a fully automated integrity check process for all of your files on the file system (like with ZFS), I personally would prefer the latter one (see final comment below).
    Yes, I am fully aware of ZFS and data integrity, but as I purchased dBpoweramp for a few quid, it has the options I need. As I said earlier, IMO, ZFS and ECC is overkill. We are talking about personal audio libraries here, which are not mission critical. However, each to his/her own.

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    3. having merely a dedicated integrity check process does not help you in case of an error detected. You would have to re-rip your CD or restore it from a backup. In any case, built-in redundancy and resilvering in ZFS (or BTRFS) would do this for you automatically.
    I still do not understand why this does not help me. Test Conversion and PerfetTUNES AccurateRip may not be automated but they still work, don't they? As yet, no flac corruption detected, so no re-rips or backup restores required.

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    I don't want to continuously invest time into thinking about my data integrity and to take appropriate measures depending on the individual file types when there is now a technically sound solution available also for consumer grade products. Everybody is completely free to choose how they want to handle it and I don't want to evangelize anyone here. But I personally have drawn my own conclusion to the problem of data integrity and I am really just following Spoon's advice rip once - rip right', see https://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper-setup-guide.htm
    I couldn't agree more with freedom of choice, but even though I have explained my methods, it was you that doubted my awareness. So, as a result, I don't think it unreasonable that I get some sort of explaination/clarification.
    Last edited by mville; 09-08-2017 at 05:23 AM.

  7. #22
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    So I try to make it as clear as possible (once again).

    1. I do want to set-up secure ripping for my LIT-ON iHAS 124 f drives as specified in the online help. Unfortunately, the process as described does not work for setting up the C2 error handling and I have doubts my drives don't cache and I just asked the forum friends with the same drive (top of 2016 list) to report on their settings as cross-validation.

    2. Unfortunately I don't get answers to the secure rip setup problem I have but you yourself has posted:

    "What you need to be testing for is whether you can get AccurateRips, or not. If you get successful AccurateRips, your drive is configured OK."

    But this is not true, isn't it? AccurateRip is only the first layer of secure ripping dbPA supports. I just want to set it up so that it can handle scratched or damaged disks as good as possible where AccurateRip will fail as you have confirmed above.
    I already advised that if you have problems with the C2 Error Pointers option, turn it off as it is often unreliable anyway, due to the fact that your drive may claim to support C2, but actually does not.

    If you have followed Spoon's setup guide and you are getting AccurateRips, then it suggests the cache and C2 options are configured OK. When it comes to the Ultra secure options, you can tweak them (and other settings) as and when you finally hit a problematic CD and see the results in CDRipper.

  8. #23

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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    ...

    I still do not understand why this does not help me. Test Conversion and PerfetTUNES AccurateRip may not be automated but they still work, don't they? As yet, no flac corruption detected, so no re-rips or backup restores required.

    I couldn't agree more with freedom of choice, but even though I have explained my methods, it was you that doubted my awareness. So, as a result, I don't think it unreasonable that I get some sort of explaination/clarification.
    I am happy to give more clarification but I also had the impression from some of the answers i got that my postings haven't been really read in depth as a whole and I found myself in repeating the same things again, but maybe i just did a bad job on explaining in the first place. English is not my mother language...

    So, as for clarification:

    It does help you to detect errors but not to repair any in case. You are reporting to never have encountered an error so far during the Test Conversion. Thats good and you are right, you don't need any more then. But if you would encounter an error, then you have to repair that one if you want your audio file to still be like the original. Only in that case the process (if just relying on Test Conversion) is like that:

    1. Start the client system which can run Test Conversion.
    2. Run Test Conversion manually or scripted (if the latter is possible).
    3. If no errors detected quit, else
    4. Restore damaged track either from
    - a) a backup
    - b) a repeated rip (get the CD out of the box and dbPA)
    5. In case of a) check integrity again.


    IMHO, this process has many steps involved which need the user to act and it also has the drawback that backups as well as CDs which are stored for a long time are another source of potential failure.

    So, if one uses a bit-rot-aware and self-healing file system (ZFS or BTRFS) and one chooses to enable these features then the overall process looks like this:

    0. Once during system setup, setup file system to check and resilver (means: repair of the damaged file) frequently (using a mirror configuration) on the file server (NAS etc.).

    Also, this would include not only audio files which support CRC and similar it would support any file one wants to store including video rips and just everything.

    So this is my very short rational why I want to use some technology which minimizes my work and which maximizes my benefit. For me, i made my choice and hence was a bit surprised to get comments telling me about this to be overkill and not so many comments about my real problem, which is, that the setup guide by Spoon did not work for my drives (which also were the recommended ones from the 2016 list).

    best
    Last edited by dpsig; 09-13-2017 at 02:12 PM.

  9. #24
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    I am happy to give more clarification but I also had the impression from some of the answers i got that my postings haven't been really read in depth as a whole and I found myself in repeating the same things again, but maybe i just did a bad job on explaining in the first place. English is not my mother language...

    So, as for clarification...
    Forget it. I don't want to be patronized any further. I just wanted an explanation/clarification on why you doubted my awareness, when you have no idea who I am, what I do and what I know.

  10. #25

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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    Forget it. I don't want to be patronized any further. I just wanted an explanation/clarification on why you doubted my awareness, when you have no idea who I am, what I do and what I know.
    Sorry mville, that is not really a nice reaction. First you as for an explanation in *21, may I quote you:

    "I don't think it unreasonable that I get some sort of explaination/clarification."

    Then I am giving this explanation. As a result you are telling me I am patronizing by giving you what you asked for?

    Also, I can see no sign of doubt of "your awareness" in any of my posts. I exactly tried to avoid any type of evangelism about the choices i did for storing the data nor did I ask anyone to comment on this. It merely was an explanation of the overall system so that people would understand the context (why VirtualBox). The problems encountered by following Spoons setup advice just happened to come from the virtualization and there I asked for advice. And really thanks again for the advice you gave in that regard.

    But of course, I have no idea who you are, what you do and what you know. As is true vice versa, isn't it? I don't see the point why that would matter here since I never doubted any skills of anyone here. To be honest, I could as well interpret the questions and discussions here about my choice to go for ZFS instead of the built-in check as a doubt of my profile (or, as you say, who i am, what i do or what i know).

    Finally you pull-out one of the oldest rhetorical tricks to end an unpleasant discussion by calling it of on your side "Forget it" but not without adding some more comments which, I am sure you are aware of this, would cause at least irritation if not opposition.

    I don't know what caused the overall reactions and bad feelings. I read the whole thread once again but still can't see the point where I am behaving patronizing or where I doubt anyones skills. If my replies caused this impression nevertheless i sincerely apologize although, really, from my point of view it was more the opposite as cumulated by your calling-of.

    best (really)

  11. #26
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    I don't know what caused the overall reactions and bad feelings. I read the whole thread once again but still can't see the point where I am behaving patronizing or where I doubt anyones skills. If my replies caused this impression nevertheless i sincerely apologize although, really, from my point of view it was more the opposite as cumulated by your calling-of.
    Apology accepted.

  12. #27
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    Re: Secure ripping using VirtualBox, ECC, ZFS and open questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dpsig View Post
    First you as for an explanation in *21, may I quote you:

    "I don't think it unreasonable that I get some sort of explaination/clarification."

    Then I am giving this explanation. As a result you are telling me I am patronizing by giving you what you asked for?
    The quote is incomplete, by the way, otherwise it becomes even more ambiguous (as is evident here) and could even take on a different meaning, when taken out of context. It should be:
    it was you that doubted my awareness. So, as a result, I don't think it unreasonable that I get some sort of explaination/clarification

    I understand that these forums can often be ambiguous, which is why I prefer to ask for clarification, rather than extrapolate or assume.

    I have accepted your apology and hope we can move on from this and onto the more important matter of ripping and tagging our music.
    Last edited by mville; 09-14-2017 at 06:06 AM. Reason: added smiley

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