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Thread: RE: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

  1. #31
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    I believe garym is suggesting that, although there is no standard tag yet, for the venue/performance info, it might be a good idea to adopt the one i.e. Venue, that is beginning to proliferate in the online metadata databases.
    Correct

  2. #32
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Oggy,

    Yes, it IS more work - I admit. But I feel it is worthwhile because I am interested in the HISTORY of music (Jazz); as well as having studied the life/work of Miles Davis for over 30 years. And, of, course, I will get quicker at typing everything in as time progresses.

    Thanks,

    Paul
    Hi Paul,

    You have a plan and a reason, so, whatever works for you. I should think, once you've totally nailed your procedure, it won't add that much time.

    I used to study LP sleeves, and yes, the run out grooves, for the best cuts - that's probably contributed to me being able to see, diddly squat, on CD sleeves!

    It is very easy to spend hours, on Wiki!

    Regarding different dates / performances, The Garden Tapes, a study of Led Zep's, The Song Remains The Same, is actually a fascinating read, and strip down, of a "live" recording. I'm sure that Miles' recordings, wouldn't need those sort of improvements!

    Oggy
    Last edited by Oggy; 08-17-2017 at 12:08 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    I believe garym is suggesting that, although there is no standard tag yet, for the venue/performance info, it might be a good idea to adopt the one i.e. Venue, that is beginning to proliferate in the online metadata databases.
    mville,

    I misinterpreted his reply.

    I was not aware of the increasing popularity of the 'venue' tag.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 08-17-2017 at 12:20 PM. Reason: spelling

  4. #34
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    You have a plan and a reason, so, whatever works for you. I should think, once you've totally nailed your procedure, it won't add that much time.

    I used to study LP sleeves, and yes, the run out grooves, for the best cuts - that's probably contributed to me being able to see, diddly squat, on CD sleeves!
    Oggy,

    I would rather spent a bit of extra time and put too much in, rather than regret not putting in enough at a later date.

    I can hardly read the CD inserts any longer without glasses and good lighting!

    Paul

  5. #35
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    mville,

    I misinterpreted his reply.

    I was not aware of the increasing popularity of the 'venue' tag.

    Cheers.
    I see it more and more, especially live show CDs. Think for example of the many Dave's Picks series of Grateful Dead live shows.

  6. #36
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    .....the CD features a 'guest artist' (eg. "Dolly Parton featuring Kenny Rodgers").
    Hi Paul,

    Let's take this as a fictional Greatest Hits, album. Dolly Parton, Dolly's Greatest Hits. All tracks performed by Dolly Parton. This is a Compilation, of Dolly's, but I see it as an album by Dolly Parton, so uncheck, Compilation.

    Now we have a second compilation album, Dolly's Greatest Hits 2, all tracks by Dolly, except, Islands In The Stream, Dolly Parton And Kenny Rogers. However you tag the song title, and artist, I still see this as an album by Dolly Parton, titled, Dolly's Greatest Hits 2, so even though it is a compilation, again I would uncheck, Compilation.

    You may see this tagged as:

    Dolly Parton, Islands In The Stream (Duet With Kenny Rogers)
    Dolly Parton, Islands In The Stream (Featuring Kenny Rogers)

    Unfortunately, there is no standard for tagging, so some will tag as above, to keep the Artist, as, Dolly Parton. Not only is there no standard for tagging, but, there is no standard, as to how players and apps, handle tags, especially, featured artists. You saw this on your Sony, where you changed ; to /

    To me, the song title is, Islands In The Stream, so I would not want to add anything, like (Duet), or (Featuring).

    As this song is generally seen as, Islands In The Stream, by, Kenny Rogers And Dolly Parton, I would use, Artist, Kenny Rogers And Dolly Parton, and Album Artist, Dolly Parton.

    As my wife has multiple dozen, compilation, CDs, I really don't want a Greatest Hits, collection, in the middle of Compilations. (I use Compilations instead of Various Artists).

    As always, we have choices, and what suits one, may not suit another, and this also very much depends on the player / app.

    If you take an album that has a featured artist on nearly every track, e.g. The Black Eyed Peas, again, I view this, as an album by, The Black Eyed Peas, so uncheck, Compilation, use ; (you use /), for every Artist, and again use, Album Artist, The Black Eyed Peas.

    These are my preferences, others well may have different, or better, choices.

    Dolly Parton, would of course go in, P's, and The Black Eyed Peas, in B's!

    Choices, don't you just love them!!

    Oggy
    Last edited by Oggy; 08-19-2017 at 06:10 AM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    The nice thing about FLAC files and their tags and at least in the case of all the players I use, is that one can have multiple values for certain tags, including ARTIST. So in your example, when tagging that song with Dolly and Kenny, I would use:

    ARTIST: Dolly Partin; Kenny Rogers

    Then in my audio library it shows up under the the artist Dolly Partin and also shows up under the artist Kenny Rogers. But like you, I would make the ALBUM ARTIST = Dolly Partin, so the actual storage of the files would be under the Dolly Partin *folder* containing all her albums.

    Contrast this with an album that is actually made jointly. Say, Willie Nelson and Wynton Marsalis, "Two Men with the Blues". Here I would do the following:

    ARTIST: Willie Nelson & Wynton Marsalis; Willie Nelson; Wynton Marsalis
    ALBUM ARTIST: Willie Nelson

    So this shows up when browsing artist in my library under a new artist name (Willie Nelson & Wynton Marsalis) but also would show up under Willie and Wynton separately. And note importantly that when I talk about browsing in my library, I am NOT talking about looking at the file folders and subfolders. I mean looking at my software that manages and plays my music, and this software is using tag values not file location.

  8. #38
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Dolly Parton, would of course go in, P's, and The Black Eyed Peas, in B's!
    If you're looking for sympathy, then look in the dictionary. It's somewhere between cyanide and syphilis!

    (I just heard that one on one of 'The World At War' boxset DVDs I am watching!)
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 08-21-2017 at 05:48 PM. Reason: spelling

  9. #39
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    Question Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Hi,

    (I have posted this question here as I am not sure if some may view a 'Complete (boxset)' as being a compilation, of sorts.)

    I have reached a situation where I need to make a decision as to how I want to deal with duplicate tracks.

    For example, I have the regular Miles Davis 'Bitches Brew' (double-CD), and also the 'Complete Bitches Brew Sessions' (CD-boxset):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitche...*Track_listing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Co...*Track_listing

    As you can see, the first 6 tracks on the latter are exactly the same as the entire former-mentioned! (as you would expect).

    And so my question is, please:

    Would you rip the former (ie. the original double-CD) for the sake of having the album in it's original form; and also to save on real-estate? Or, lose the original and instead listen to it via the 'Complete (boxset)' version?

    I guess this is a question of whether or not you consider yourself to be a purist!

    Thanks,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 08-28-2017 at 01:00 PM. Reason: spelling

  10. #40
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    I rip all CDs as complete, even if duplicated on other CDs.

  11. #41
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    I rip all CDs as complete, even if duplicated on other CDs.
    Hi Gary, thanks. So you will tracks (within foobar etc) which have the SAME name?! But they are associated with a DIFFERENT album (title). Paul.

  12. #42
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by monsterjazzlick View Post
    Hi Gary, thanks. So you will tracks (within foobar etc) which have the SAME name?! But they are associated with a DIFFERENT album (title). Paul.
    Correct.

  13. #43
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Paul, do you want everything you own in digital form? Rip everything. If not necessarily, then it's a question of how you want to listen to your music. Do you want to be able to choose to listen to "Bitches Brew" in its original form, with no extras? Rip both sets. If you can live with listening to those six tracks only from the later release, you can keep the original but not rip it. You always have the option to rip if later if you change your mind.

    Another example: I have a CD which was re-released a few years later with extra tracks. There are no audible differences between the common tracks, so I ripped only the newer disc. However, I used the older album art because the newer art has "Bonus Tracks" and other extra verbiage on it. I have kept both discs.

    Like Gary, I rip CDs in their entirety. When it comes to duplicates, I always keep original album tracks that I like and usually put duplicates into a "Duplicates" playlist, the exceptions being those that sound better or alternate versions that I like. If you rip both "Bitches Brew" releases, you could similarly move the first six tracks from "Complete Sessions" to an alternate playlist, thereby treating that release as an album of alternate takes.

  14. #44
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    Question Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jailhouse View Post
    Paul, do you want everything you own in digital form? Rip everything. If not necessarily, then it's a question of how you want to listen to your music. Do you want to be able to choose to listen to "Bitches Brew" in its original form, with no extras? Rip both sets. If you can live with listening to those six tracks only from the later release, you can keep the original but not rip it. You always have the option to rip if later if you change your mind.

    Another example: I have a CD which was re-released a few years later with extra tracks. There are no audible differences between the common tracks, so I ripped only the newer disc. However, I used the older album art because the newer art has "Bonus Tracks" and other extra verbiage on it. I have kept both discs.

    Like Gary, I rip CDs in their entirety. When it comes to duplicates, I always keep original album tracks that I like and usually put duplicates into a "Duplicates" playlist, the exceptions being those that sound better or alternate versions that I like. If you rip both "Bitches Brew" releases, you could similarly move the first six tracks from "Complete Sessions" to an alternate playlist, thereby treating that release as an album of alternate takes.
    That's really helpful and interesting JH. I appreciate that.

    I have not even gotten anywhere close to 'playlists', so that's for later down the line ...

    Yes, I would like to listen to the 'Bitches Brew' CD as per original release. It is also worth noting that in some instances (I think in the case of: 'Miles On The Corner' complete boxset), Columbia (now Sony) split up all the tracks from their original order and placed them in chronological order instead! So you don't even get the original recording as you typically do on the first, or final, disc!

    "Digitally Remastered", "Bonus Materiel", "Previously Unissued", and other similar verbatim splattered across the front covered does indeed jeopardise the original artwork! But I guess it SELLS $$$$$

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Last edited by monsterjazzlick; 08-28-2017 at 03:00 PM. Reason: spelling

  15. #45
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    Re: Defining 'Compilation' (help?)

    I too generally rip everything as it is on the CD. Exceptions:

    If the CD is an exact duplicate issued with a different album name (if in Accuraterip, comes up as in Accuraterip (yes I've had this happen with a number of "bargain priced" old Caribbean music CD's, I only keep one copy ripped. I usually add a comment referencing the other CD title. BTW, does anyone know if, in FLAC, the semicolon separator for multiple entries works on the album title?

    If, as I have found on occasion, two versions of the same CD, one with more tracks, I only keep the rip of the one with the greater number of tracks.

    But I never remove duplicate tracks in Best Of or compilation CDs.

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