Set-Up for Ripping

[mville]

What it is that I don't understand in your post *237 is the phrase "Being Populated or Populating tags is simply IT parlance and (in these forums) refers to entering data into a tag."

To me, "entering data into a tag implies typing text into a text box, which is different from "turning a (sort) tag on," or checking a sort tag box. Perhaps this is the confusion.

I have no idea why you mention:
"turning a (sort) tag on," or checking a sort tag box, as there is no mention of this in post no. 237.

You are correct to think populating tags is entering data into a tag implies typing text into a text box.

As I explained, I see, in dbpa, no place where a text box appears for sort tags.

And, I repeat for the third time:
In CD Ripper, the only place to manually add and populate the ComposerSort tag is in the Tag Panel, bottom centre of the CD Ripper main window.

Click the [Add New Tag] button and select ComposerSort from the drop-down menu:



Then enter the ComposerSort data value e.g.:

[dbarnby]

Thanks for your good explanation; I think I understand now.

FYI, what I mean by "turning a (sort) tag on," or checking a sort tag box is to "activate" a sort tag. Checking a sort tag box is what in prompted in the CD Ripper Options beneath the green bar icon. I wanted to get back to you right away on this; however, I do have some more questions regarding sort tags to be handled later.

Again, thanks, and Happy New Year.

dbarnby

[dbarnby]

garym. I will, indeed, try to explain my questions more clearly henceforth; thanks for giving me the heads up.

Here's the info you requested:

Classical disc:

GENRE: Choral
ARTIST: Gianfranco Cosmi
ALBUM ARTIST: Gianfranco Cosmi
ALBUM: sol minore; Salve Regina; Messa in Re maggiere
DISC: 1/1
COMPOSER: Vincenzo Bellini

Classical discs from a 2 disc album:

GENRE: Opera
ARTIST: Sutherland, Pavarotti, Milnes, Lso - Bonynge
ALBUM ARTIST: Sutherland, Pavarotti, Milnes, Lso- Bonynge
ALBUM: Rigoletto
DISC: 1/2
COMPOSER:Verdi

GENRE: Opera
ARTIST: Martti Talvela; Christian du Plessis; Luciano Pavarotti; John Noble; Sherrill Milnes; London Symphony Orchestra; Gillian Knight; Kiri Te Kanawa; Clifford Grant; John Gibbs; Joseph Clement; Ricardo Cassinelli; Richard Bonynge; Ambrosian Opera Chorus; Joan Sutherland

ALBUM ARTIST: Joan Sutherland; Luciano Pavarotti; Sherrill Milnes; Huguette Tourangeau; Martti Talvela; London Symphony Orchestra; Richard Bonynge

ALBUM: Rigoletto
DISC: 2/2
COMPOSER: Verdi

Classical compilation disc:

GENRE: CL Misc
ARTIST:
ALBUM ARTIST: Royal Promenade Orchestra
ALBUM: Great Romantic Overtures
DISC: 1/1
COMPOSER: Various


Here's the Naming string (the last one you sent) showing under the window that opens when the Naming Set is clicked:

[MAXLENGTH]240,[genre]\[IFCOMP]Compilations\[album]\[IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track]-[title]-[composer]-[artist][][IF!COMP]\[composer]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][][]

Here's the sequence (given in the lower box):

Genre\Composer\Album Artist\Album Title\05 - Title__

Notice that the sequence has the Album Artist before the Album Title.
What I'd like is to have the Album Title before the Album Artist.

Re disc 2 vs. 2.2 I think I've got it.

dbarnby

[mville]

FYI, what I mean by "turning a (sort) tag on," or checking a sort tag box is to "activate" a sort tag. Checking a sort tag box is what in prompted in the CD Ripper Options beneath the green bar icon. I wanted to get back to you right away on this

This is referring to the CD Ripper Option, Write ID Tags. See post no. 232.

[garym]

Here's the sequence (given in the lower box):

Genre\Composer\Album Artist\Album Title\05 - Title__

Notice that the sequence has the Album Artist before the Album Title.
What I'd like is to have the Album Title before the Album Artist.

Re disc 2 vs. 2.2 I think I've got it.

dbarnby

Thanks. This made it much clearer. Use this. (although note this is the string I gave you in post no. 249 above and you didn't like the album vs albumartist order). Thus my confusion.

[MAXLENGTH]240,[genre]\[IFCOMP]Compilations\[album]\[IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track]-[title]-[composer]-[artist][][IF!COMP]\[composer]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[track] - [title][][]

[dbarnby]

Thanks, garym; it seems to work well.
Actually this string is a bit different from *249 at the vary end; I don't know if that makes any difference, but now I seem to be on track.
I'll proceed with this for now for classical music, and if anything comes to light as I proceed deeper, I'll let you know.
dbarnby

[garym]

Thanks, garym; it seems to work well.
Actually this string is a bit different from *249 at the vary end; I don't know if that makes any difference, but now I seem to be on track.
I'll proceed with this for now for classical music, and if anything comes to light as I proceed deeper, I'll let you know.
dbarnby

OK. (yes, there was a minor difference, with "artist" being written to file name. But the directory order (album coming before albumartist) is the same in both. Anyhow, you seem to be back on track.

[dbarnby]

I believe I'm prepared, now, to proceed with the naming strings garym has provided. The next item on my agenda is to understand sort tags. I'm clear on the fact that the sort tag issue relates ONLY to how the tags appear in the Player (not File Explorer).

I've spent considerable time re-reading all posts on this thread relating to sort tags (particularly from Oggy and mville), other sort threads in the forum, and also the help info on dbpa on the topic. From all of this, I'll summarize below what I've concluded; however, I don't know if I have it right yet, although I hope you'll notice that I'm creeping up on it. Please critique as necessary.

1) Sort tags are given their values (names) at the bottom of the screen in the Tags panel (but that, alone, is not sufficient to activate them. To do that, I need to check the box in the list accessed via the green-bar icon at the top?

2) With regard to the Tag Panel at the bottom of the screen, two things must happen:
a) I must select the sort tag I want (in this case, Composer sort), and
b) I must type into the text box provided there, the value (Composer name) that I want to assign to that tag.

3) At this point, I still have a question. As I understand it, composer sort will alphabetize the name I type (Tag Panel at bottom) by the second word.

Example:
If I type in Gustav Mahler I will get "Gustav Mahler" alphabetized under M (the second word);

if I type in Mahler, Gustav I will get "Mahler, Gustav" alphabetized under G (again the second word).

This gets to my quandary.
I want my listing to be Mahler, Gustav, alphabetized under M (the first word).

How do I accomplish this?

Ideally, I would like to set a permanent default to always alphabetize by first word, and then I would always type into the "main" composer text box at the top of the screen, the last name first, i.e. Mahler, Gustav. And I would like, ideally, to have this set-up be the unchanging default. (This would also work well for non-classical because I would type "Frank Sinatra" and would find that it was alphabetized under "F") &*8211; perfect for non-classical).

Is there a way to do this that bypasses the Tag Panel at the bottom of the screen altogether, allowing me to simply enter "Mahler, Gustav" (or "Frank Sinatra) into the "main" composer text box at the top of the screen, and alphabetizing on the first word (Mahler, or Frank).

However, I don't know if I've understood correctly OR if it's possible to default alphabetize by first Word and avoid the tag panel at the bottom (which would have to be entered for every different CD). If this is not possible, what would be the closest thing to it?

If I can get this matter cleared up in my mind I will be way ahead of the game. I would be most appreciative is someone can jump in here and straighten me out, regardless of what I should have read and understood from earlier posts.

I'm working hard on this.
Thank you,
dbarnby

[Oggy]

Hi Don,

If I understand your requirements correctly, then the good news is that you will not need to use sort tags.

If you type in Mahler, Gustav without sort tags, you will get a folder, Mahler, Gustav and it will display as Mahler, Gustav in Ms.

If you type in Frank Sinatra without sort tags, you will get a folder, Frank Sinatra and it will display as Frank Sinatra in Fs.

In both these examples, this will be in both Windows File Explorer and the player.

Could you please confirm that is what you want, as this will save you the time of using the sort tags.

To answer your question on how sort tags work, if the name is Frank Sinatra, it will always show as Frank Sinatra. If you use the sort tag, Sinatra, Frank it will "sort" Frank Sinatra, to S. As you can see, it sorts from the first name you type in the sort box. This only alters where Frank Sinatra is "sorted" on the player, not, how.

[garym]

Example:
If I type in Gustav Mahler I will get "Gustav Mahler" alphabetized under M (the second word);

if I type in Mahler, Gustav I will get "Mahler, Gustav" alphabetized under G (again the second word).

No, this is incorrect. If you type Gustav Mahler into the sort tag, it will alphabetize under "G" (the first letter in the tag field). If you want to alphabetize under "M", the sort tag should contain: Mahler, Gustav. Note: The "sort tags" are not "smart" in any way. They don't do anything magical. They simply allow you to enter a name in the way you want it sorted, but you (the user) still have to manually enter into the tag the name the way you want it to sort. And it will be simply on the FIRST letter in the sort tag.

[mville]

1) Sort tags are given their values (names) at the bottom of the screen in the Tags panel (but that, alone, is not sufficient to activate them. To do that, I need to check the box in the list accessed via the green-bar icon at the top?

Please can you describe what you mean by activate them?

2) With regard to the Tag Panel at the bottom of the screen, two things must happen:
a) I must select the sort tag I want (in this case, Composer sort), and
b) I must type into the text box provided there, the value (Composer name) that I want to assign to that tag.

OR, the sort tag is already populated by the online metadata you select in Review Metadata.

[dbarnby]

This is real progress; thank you all.

Oggy: Yes, that is what I want. Good show!

garym: I understand; it's clear now.

mville: By "implement" I mean cause the sort tag to be active (take effect -- not just be selected). It was my understanding the it is necessary to check the box next to the sort tag under the green icon (CD Ripper/options) in order for the sort tag to take effect. Is that correct or not?

Based on what Oggy told me I can get what I want without using sort tags; nevertheless, I want to understand what the green icon, and the tag panel do, and how they interact. I'm still somewhat confused about that.

dbarnby

[mville]

By "implement" I mean cause the sort tag to be active (take effect -- not just be selected). It was my understanding the it is necessary to check the box next to the sort tag under the green icon (CD Ripper/options) in order for the sort tag to take effect.

active/take effect where exactly?

The green icon is the Menu. Under the Menu are the CD Ripper application options/settings. One of the options is the Write ID Tag option, which you refer to here. Re-Read post no. 232.

The Write ID Tag option has only one function, which is to tell CD Ripper to write ticked tags to the audio file (along with the ripped digital audio). Tags that are un-ticked, will not be written to the audio file. This option does not interact with the Tag panel.

[dbarnby]

For a tag to be "activate" or "take effect" I mean that such tag would be available to the Player to use, or conversely, I assume if such tag were not checked in the green/CD ripper option listing, that the Player would know nothing of it (i.e., it would not take effect or be active in the Player, even though it were "set-up" in the tag panel. Do I understand that correctly?

dbarnby

[mville]

For a tag to be "activate" or "take effect" I mean that such tag would be available to the Player to use, or conversely, I assume if such tag were not checked in the green/CD ripper option listing, that the Player would know nothing of it (i.e., it would not take effect or be active in the Player, even though it were "set-up" in the tag panel. Do I understand that correctly?

Player software simply reads metadata tags from the audio files, so tags have to be written to the audio files. I think this is what you mean by activated.

... in computing/IT, applications save data in files. Files are then saved to a storage device, otherwise data is lost when applications are closed. Digital audio and tag metadata is no different.