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Thread: Set-Up for Ripping

  1. #181
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Further, there seems to be a tendency to use the word "tag" loosely to mean what garym calls "field," and what I have called "tag-group." Just today, in fact, evasv has posted (*172) "As I see it: Composer is a tag and Beethoven is a value." This view is the reverse of the perspective held by garym and mville and me. The truth is, I think, that for lack of a clear definition there are lots of users with different points of view. It matters not at all who's "right" or "wrong"; all that matters is that we all get on the same page.
    I believe it is you that is not on the same page.

    What I said was:
    There are simply Tags (some of which have corresponding sort tags), which contain data

    which is essentially the same as what evasv posted. Where evasv states value, I state data (or data value).

  2. #182
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by mville View Post
    The 12 text boxes (and 1 tick box) you refer to, are just a few often used tags, conveniently displayed at the top of the main CD Ripper window. Some of my flac files hold well over 50 tags.
    over 50 tag fields. Fixed that for you. (kidding of course)

    p.s. I think moving forward we should all agree that when one talks about "tags" in a file (e.g. meaning tag fields like ARTIST, ALBUM) that it is perfectly ok to interchangeably use "field" or "tag". That is, this is the culture on this and almost all other forums and this ship has sailed. It would take to long to "fix" the internet!

  3. #183
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    I think moving forward we should all agree that when one talks about "tags" in a file (e.g. meaning tag fields like ARTIST, ALBUM) that it is perfectly ok to interchangeably use "field" or "tag". That is, this is the culture on this and almost all other forums and this ship has sailed. It would take to long to "fix" the internet!
    Agreed. I think it is simpler and more convenient to talk of tags, rather than metadata containers, fields etc.

  4. #184
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by garym View Post
    I think moving forward we should all agree that when one talks about "tags" in a file (e.g. meaning tag fields like ARTIST, ALBUM) that it is perfectly ok to interchangeably use "field" or "tag". That is, this is the culture on this and almost all other forums and this ship has sailed. It would take to long to "fix" the internet!
    I also agree. Even in documentation of Vorbis comments there is use of "tag" as a complement to "field":

    https://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html -> "We will generally collect the more useful tags here to help with standardization."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis_comment -> "Any tag name is allowed, and there is no format that the data values must be in."

  5. #185
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by evasv View Post
    I also agree. Even in documentation of Vorbis comments there is use of "tag" as a complement to "field":

    https://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html -> "We will generally collect the more useful tags here to help with standardization."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorbis_comment -> "Any tag name is allowed, and there is no format that the data values must be in."
    Excellent point.

  6. #186
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Thanks, Oggy:

    Re: Sort tags (Post @163). From your explanation I take it that the "sort" command simply reverses the order of whatever is entered in the field and puts a comma between. Is that correct?

    If I want Mahler, Gustav I use the sort command then enter the composer's name in standard order, i.e. Gustav Mahler. Is that correct?

    Are there fields other than Composer that are sort frields? If so, what are they?

    Thank you,
    Don

  7. #187
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Thanks, Oggy:

    Re: Sort tags (Post @163). From your explanation I take it that the "sort" command simply reverses the order of whatever is entered in the field and puts a comma between. Is that correct?

    If I want Mahler, Gustav I use the sort command then enter the composer's name in standard order, i.e. Gustav Mahler. Is that correct?

    Are there fields other than Composer that are sort frields? If so, what are they?

    Thank you,
    Don
    No, you manually enter what you want in the SORT tag. So you would put Gustav Mahler in the COMPOSER tag and you would put "Mahler, Gustav" in the COMPOSERSORT tag. In CD Ripper, click Settings, CD RIPPER OPTIONS, Tags & Filenames, then "meta data and ID tags" (options button next to this item). Then you'll see a list of all the tag items and some are ticked (the ones you want) and some are not ticked (the ones you don't want). You can see the various sort tags there. I recall ARTISTSORT, COMPOSERSORT, ALBUMARTISTSORT, ALBUMSORT. May be others.

  8. #188
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Thanks, garym:

    I guess I'm blind; I don't see "Settings."

    Further, I don't get what's going on here. What is the purpose of inputting composer in two different ways, if I only want to use it in one way or the other.

    Also, where do I find the COMPOSERSORT field? I only see a COMPOSER field at the top of my screen.

    This whole concept escapes me.

    I think I need to get this kind of understanding nailed down before I do much ripping.

  9. #189
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    THIS POST WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED, BY MISTAKE, IN THE "RE: RIPPING LEVEL QUESTION (HELP?)" THREAD. I'M REPOSTING IT HERE WHERE IT BELONGS SO AS NOT TO CONTAMINATE THINGS.

    I hope everyone had a happy holiday, I did.

    I've been away for a while, but I'm now I'm getting back to the job. I think the mistake I made in the beginning was that I was trying to understand dbpoweramp, particularly the naming string. At this point all I want to do I get on with it.

    I believe I've come around to garym's view for the non-classical naming string and will try ripping accordingly (using the one he suggested for leading off with Genre, which I prefer).

    From Garym *70
    [IFCOMP]Compilations\[genre]\[album] [IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title] - [artist][][IF!COMP][genre]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI] \Disc [disc][]\[track] - [title][]

    I've read through the forum posts for the third time and cataloged the various naming strings suggested. They vary somewhat, including some embellishments. Here are the two other strings suggested.

    From Ripping Level Questions (help?) &*8211; Monsterjazzlick Post *43
    [IFCOMP]Compilations\[album][IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track]-[title]-[artist][][IF!COMP][IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[artist][]\[album][IFMULTI]\Disc [disc][]\[track]-[title][]

    From Set-Up for Ripping -- schmidj Post *34
    [IFVALUE]album artist,[MAXLENGTH]25,[album artist][],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][MAXLENGTH]25,[artist][][][] - [album]\[track] - [MAXLENGTH]25,[artist][] - [MAXLENGTH]40,[title][]

    It seems desirable to me to use a Naming string that handles Compilations and also limits the length of certain fields to prevent overruns (as well as begins with Genre). Putting that all together, what would be recommended?

    As I proceed here are some additional questions:

    1) What would be the Naming string for classical music that follows Genre with Composer and is otherwise comparable? I know garym and others have said that they don't do much classical and have indicate that they have not settled on a desired string, but I do need one that will do that job.

    2) I post *57 Schmij suggested changing WMP to eliminate default options that changes metadata. That sounds like an excellent idea but I don't see how to do it. Internet instructions start with the WMP Tools pull down menu. I don't see Tool at all; can you help me?

    Also, garym (post *84) suggested I turn off WMP auto update of tags/artwork? Likewise, I don't see "tools" at top of WMP screen.

    3) When I set up Foobar2000 I see the list of my music files on the left pane, but only a single CD is listed. when I click on it I get:

    Playback error:
    Unable to open item for playback (Object not found):
    "C:\Users\Donald\Music\Net\Test\Jazz\Woody Herman\This is Jazz, Vol. 24\01 - Woodchopper's Ball .flac"

    When I click the Playback button, nothing happens
    Also, I did nothing to select the Woody Herman CD in the first place, ; it just appeared.

    What's going on?

    4) Oggy, on post *58, item 1 regarding foobar you suggest going to "browse." I don't find "browse." I'm on a PC, not an Android. Is that the difference? If so, how do I proceed?

    5) Oggy, in post *163 you say that garym mentions he doesn't embed art on each track. That sounds good to me; one cover art should be sufficient for an album. However, I didn't know one could attach cover art to each track. What is this all about? What is the setting to choose either way? Is there a default?

    Also you say: "Note, if you want Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg, &*8230;. you need to uncheck both Disable Tag Writing AND Album Art, as per screenshot below, and set the appropriate, Write to [output folder]." Specifically, what are: Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg? What should one do here?

    6) The Naming string field and Profile field seem to not be connected (I can set either to its own selection). I thought that Profile was the name given to a particular naming string and was used as a quick way to call up a given naming string. There must be something I don't understand.

    Happy New Year all.
    dbarnby

  10. #190
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Are there fields other than Composer that are sort frields? If so, what are they?
    dBpoweramp currently supports the following sort tags:
    Artist Sort
    Album Artist Sort
    Album Sort
    ComposerSort
    ConductorSort
    SoloistsSort

  11. #191
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    I guess I'm blind; I don't see "Settings."
    If you have the latest dBpoweramp Music Converter R16.3, then:
    CD Ripper >> Menu >> CD Ripper Options

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Further, I don't get what's going on here. What is the purpose of inputting composer in two different ways, if I only want to use it in one way or the other.
    Read this: Sorting last name, first name from First name last name

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Also, where do I find the COMPOSERSORT field? I only see a COMPOSER field at the top of my screen.
    Try the Tags panel (CD Ripper main window, bottom centre).

  12. #192
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    garym & mville has already pointed you in the right direction, but here comes an additional angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Further, I don't get what's going on here. What is the purpose of inputting composer in two different ways, if I only want to use it in one way or the other.

    /.../

    This whole concept escapes me.

    I think I need to get this kind of understanding nailed down before I do much ripping.
    If you only want to browse/search/play in one way, let's say "Gustav Mahler", then COMPOSER is all you need. You don't have to use COMPOSERSORT in that case.

    And that goes for all sort tags; they are all optional. Some use them and some don't.


    If you tag the COMPOSER as "Gustav Mahler", compare these listings in alphabetical order below and decide what you prefer:

    without COMPOSERSORT:

    Gustav Mahler
    Igor Stravinsky
    Jean Sibelius
    Johann Sebastian Bach
    Ludwig van Beethoven
    Richard Strauss
    Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart


    with COMPOSERSORT:

    Bach, Johann Sebastian
    Beethoven, Ludwig van
    Mahler, Gustav
    Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus
    Sibelius, Jean
    Strauss, Richard
    Stravinsky, Igor


    As an alternative, you could tag the COMPOSER as "Mahler, Gustav" to negate the need for COMPOSERSORT, but that approach is uncommon, I think.

    Also keep in mind that music servers usually support sort tags, but portable players may or may not.

  13. #193
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Thanks, mville:
    I'm learning but I still don't have it.

    1) I don't know what version of dbpa CD Ripper I have; where do I find that? I know nothing about dbpa MUSIC CONVERTER.

    2) At the bottom left of the Ripper screen under the Tags tab I see where I can add tags like Composer Sort to that box right there (not to the fields at the top of the screen). I don't understand the difference between items at the top and in the box at the bottom left or the relationship between them.

    3) I see that sort tags reverse first and last names, but I still don't understand how the sort tags are utilized. That is:

    a) Where does the sort name show up?

    b) does this affect the way names are listed in the file name in the Naming String and Windows File Explorer, or does it affect the way tags appear in my player display when I'm looking to play music?

    c) If sort tags are used does that change the way name are presented in BOTH the File Explorer and the Player search display?

    d) To employ sort tags, is all I do, make a selection of such in the bottom left box under Tag tap?

    e) Is sort tags something I just select or "turn on" (in this case for Composer) which then puts two tags (both composer and composer sort) in the folder which allows the Player to access either, or do I do more than just select such sort.

    You can see from these questions that I am trying to understand the mechanics of what is actually happening and where, in terms of what happens, how to make it happen, and where to see it happen. I'm sure it's simple once understood, but at this point not.

  14. #194
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Thanks, mville:
    I'm learning but I still don't have it.

    1) I don't know what version of dbpa CD Ripper I have; where do I find that? I know nothing about dbpa MUSIC CONVERTER.

    2) At the bottom left of the Ripper screen under the Tags tab I see where I can add tags like Composer Sort to that box right there (not to the fields at the top of the screen). I don't understand the difference between items at the top and in the box at the bottom left or the relationship between them.

    3) I see that sort tags reverse first and last names, but I still don't understand how the sort tags are utilized. That is:

    a) Where does the sort name show up?

    b) does this affect the way names are listed in the file name in the Naming String and Windows File Explorer, or does it affect the way tags appear in my player display when I'm looking to play music?

    c) If sort tags are used does that change the way name are presented in BOTH the File Explorer and the Player search display?

    d) To employ sort tags, is all I do, make a selection of such in the bottom left box under Tag tap?

    e) Is sort tags something I just select or "turn on" (in this case for Composer) which then puts two tags (both composer and composer sort) in the folder which allows the Player to access either, or do I do more than just select such sort.

    You can see from these questions that I am trying to understand the mechanics of what is actually happening and where, in terms of what happens, how to make it happen, and where to see it happen. I'm sure it's simple once understood, but at this point not.
    Hi Don, and welcome back.

    1) If you click on the dBpoweramp Control Center icon, which currently is a loudspeaker, top left, under dBpoweramp, will show you the version you have.

    Music Conversion converts your ripped files from one format to another. For example, from FLAC to MP3.

    2) The Tags in the top box are common naming settings, the ones displayed when pressing "Tags", are an extension, where you can add, or delete tags, and choose how these tags are displayed."Sort".

    a) The sort name, is how you wish to display the equivalent name.

    Gustav Mahler on my player, displays as Gustav Mahler, but because I use the sort tag, it shows as Gustav Mahler, but under M.

    b) No. In Windows File Explorer, the names are listed numerically, and then alphabetically. These are how your computer displays them, but not your player.If you put Mahler, Gustav and don't use a sort tag, it will display as Mahler, Gustav both on your player, and in Windows File Explorer. This is purely a personal preference, and the sort tags are there to facilitate personal preferences.

    c) Sort tags don't affect File Explorer at all, player search, usually type in Mahler, Gustav, will pull up all Mahler and Gustav.

    d) Yes!

    e) If you select, "turn on" or use sort tags, the folder will be named Gustav Mahler, but sorted under Mahler.

    Particularly with Classical composers, most people think of Mahler and Beethoven, and would expect to find Mahler under M and Beethoven under B. It is completely your choice if you would rather use Mahler, Gustav and not need sort tags, or use Gustav Mahler, and to show under M, rather than G, you need the sort tags.

    These tags, and if required, sort tags, are what makes it happen.

    I personally use sort tags, as in my head, a Library displays by surname, BUT, this is solely personal preference, and someone else may think differently.

    Hope this helps clarify matters and aid in your preferences.

    Choices!!

    Regards,

    Oggy
    Last edited by Oggy; 12-28-2017 at 02:40 AM.

  15. #195
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    5) Oggy, in post *163 you say that garym mentions he doesn't embed art on each track. That sounds good to me; one cover art should be sufficient for an album. However, I didn't know one could attach cover art to each track. What is this all about? What is the setting to choose either way? Is there a default?

    Also you say: "Note, if you want Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg, &*8230;. you need to uncheck both Disable Tag Writing AND Album Art, as per screenshot below, and set the appropriate, Write to [output folder]." Specifically, what are: Folder.jpg, or Cover.jpg? What should one do here?

    Hi Don,

    In CD Ripper, click on CD Ripper Options

    In Tags & Filenames click on Meta Data & ID Tags Options

    Will bring up this screen



    These are my settings, where I've set both the Album Art maximum pixel and file size, and set it up to add a Folder.jpg.

    If you use a naming string such as garym's, then this will automatically add this sized art in a folder for each disc.

    If your player works with a Folder.jpg, then it saves space over embedding and makes it far simpler for changing covers in the future.

    I suggest you try this on one CD, and see if the cover displays on your player / app.
    Last edited by Oggy; 12-28-2017 at 03:35 AM.

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