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Thread: Set-Up for Ripping

  1. #346
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    5) mville and I use different players / software, all have their own quirks, so apart from personal preferences, we are using players that behave differently.

    Apart from when I've made a naming error, the naming string is simply a means to an end, and with my player, I never look at the folder tree. I don't use the two higher folder levels of Genre or Composers, but because of the tags can search for Composer or Genre.

    So:

    Artist
    Album
    Disc One Disc Two

    Compilations
    Album
    Disc One Disc Two

    As for Classical I treat Composer as the Artist, the folder tree is the same, but you are correct, not having disc number in the Album name does add another level, but avoids having the disc in the album name.

    (mville uses a different naming string, that works exactly as he wants for his needs and player).
    FYI, my Naming creates the following folder path/filename structure in Windows File Explorer, organised solely for ease of navigating my albums, for post rip editing. This is not used by my server/player software at all, which builds it internal library, based on my tags. Note also, the use of disc, in the filename:




    ... also, for my Compilation Albums, they appear in a Various Artists folder then by a Genre sub-folder.

    So alphabetically in Windows File Explorer, they are listed after Artist Z e.g.:
    D:\FLAC\Various Artists\Classical\[2012-07] Serenity (The Beauty Of Arvo Pärt)
    or
    D:\FLAC\Various Artists\Soundtrack\[2010-02] Shutter Island (Music From The Motion Picture)
    Last edited by mville; 02-11-2018 at 07:34 AM. Reason: added reference to Compilation Albums

  2. #347
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    mville post*340:

    MyPost *337 5a) My understanding of filename was that it is a combination of Path and Naming string. Therefore, I don't understand putting filename into the Naming string that defines filename. Also Filename, as shown in the Track Listings is humongously long; why would you want this in the File Explorer tree with Disc No. appended? What am I missing here? We may be talking at cross-purposes.

    My post *337, 7a) I may have misled you somehow. When I did the experiment, I used a disc that was a compilation of Operettas with 5 different composers. I did not use composer sort yet the File Explorer result was alphabetized by the first letter of the first word (in this case, the first name). Do you know what caused this alphabetization since I didn't use the sort tag? There seems to be something going on that I don't understand.
    ---
    mville*346: You say, "Note also, the use of disc, in the filename:" Looking at the screen shot attached I don't see discs anywhere.
    ---
    Thanks for the other answers in these posts as well as *341 and *342; I think I good on those now.

    Don

  3. #348
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Oggy, post *345

    1) I'vr got it.

    7) You say that I will "not need to enter/use sort tags." In order to alphabetize, I thought I did need sort tags?

    Thanks, Oggy

  4. #349
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    7) You say that I will "not need to enter/use sort tags." In order to alphabetize, I thought I did need sort tags?
    There exist 3 ways applications can sort your files.


    1.) Simple applications

    Simple application don't care about all your tags and just sort the files by their filenames. Therefore it is recommended to include at least the track number in the filename, or even better to include the disc and tracknumber for multi disc albums.

    2.) More intelligent applications

    The more intelligent applications do know how to read the tags of your files. They allow you to access the files by the embeded tags. I.e. you could access and sort your files by artist or composer and so on. The problem is, that the natural sort order of i.e. artists isn't the sort order some users expect.

    Example: The artist name is "Stevie Wonder" and you would find him under "S".


    3.) Intelligent applications

    Intelligent application can use the so called sort tags (exist for artist, Composer etc. pp.). Coming back to our Little example: some users would prefer to find "Stevie Wonder" under "W". Therefore there exist the sort tags. If you insert "Stevie Wonder" in the artist tag, the application can still show "Stevie Wonder" in the display, but it will use "Wonder, Stevie" for sorting the files by artist.

    BTW: the tags don't know anything about first and last Name - it is just one string!


    So the best you can do is to use the right file naming and to fill the tags and sort tags. This way you are prepared for all applications independent of their intelligence.


    Dat Ei

  5. #350
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    5a) My understanding of filename was that it is a combination of Path and Naming string. Therefore, I don't understand putting filename into the Naming string that defines filename.
    No. Path and Naming in CD Ripper, together define the Full Path and Filename for your rips. So, CD Ripper knows which folders to create and what your audio files will be named. How else would CD Ripper know where to write your files and what to name them?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Also Filename, as shown in the Track Listings is humongously long.
    I don't think the filenames are long.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    Also Filename, as shown in the Track Listings is humongously long; why would you want this in the File Explorer tree with Disc No. appended?
    Disc No. is not appended to the filename, Disc No. (and Track No.) are prepended to the filename.

    So, when I view the files in Windows File Explorer by Name, the files will be sorted in disc/track order.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    7a) I may have misled you somehow. When I did the experiment, I used a disc that was a compilation of Operettas with 5 different composers. I did not use composer sort yet the File Explorer result was alphabetized by the first letter of the first word (in this case, the first name). Do you know what caused this alphabetization since I didn't use the sort tag? There seems to be something going on that I don't understand.
    Windows File Explorer displays folders and files, in the order you specify in Windows File Explorer.

    The way I am understanding all of this, is that you do not know how folders and filenames work in an OS file system and how Windows File Explorer works. So, it seems you are trying to run, before you can walk.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    You say, "Note also, the use of disc, in the filename:" Looking at the screen shot attached I don't see discs anywhere.
    The filenames are defined in Naming as [disc].[track] [artist] - [title]. The screenshot clearly shows the filenames with this structure.
    Last edited by mville; 02-12-2018 at 06:00 AM.

  6. #351
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Don,

    If you want your folder / Composer name as Beethoven, Ludwig von then you don't need sort tags, as you have already "sorted", by reversing the Christian and surname. By doing this, you have caused this to display in Bs.

    Am I correct in believing this is what you want?
    Last edited by Oggy; 02-12-2018 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #352
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    mville: Thanks for your post *350 5a) We're talking about the issue raised in post *340, regarding where to put disc no. so that it shows up in the File Explorer. You suggest putting it in the filename. If disc no.is to show up in the File Explorer then filename which included disc no would need to be included in the Naming string, but the naming string is, itself, the blueprint for the File Explorer, so as I understand it you are suggesting putting the filename into the Naming string which is a part of the filename. This is pretty confusing to me. Do you see the source of my confusion?

    Regarding the length of the filename, as I look at the Track Listing on the screen in the Filename column I see a long string that contains everything between C: and .flac (both path and filename). These are, indeed, humongous strings. Could it be that you are refereeing to something else.

    dbarnby

  8. #353
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Oggy *348 and Dat Ei, *349

    Regarding Name Reversal and Alphabetizing:

    Several Forum posts have dealt with the alphabetizing and reverse naming issues before; however, I have found some room for misunderstanding; I'd like to nail down the "nuts and bolts" of these issues in my own mind once and for all.

    I believe the question of alphabetizing (sort tags) is distinct and separate from the issue of name reversal (first/last vs. last/first). These two issues tend to be discussed together and sometimes (for me) confuse the examples that are given. I'd like to be certain that I understand this correctly.

    Name Reversal

    If I choose to reverse a name (Last/First) and type it into one of the text boxes that way, it will show up that way everywhere, including my Player app (which I don't yet have) is that correct?

    Bottom line: If I want a name displayed (and therefore sorted) Last/First I have two choices:

    1) Enter the name "Last, First" into one of the name text boxes exactly that way ("Last, First"), and do NOT use sort tags, or

    2) Enter the name "First, Last" into one of the name text boxes, and then check the Sort tag in BOTH the Tag tab of the lower left pane, AND the Write to Tags list found at: green Menu icon >> CD Ripper Options >> Tags & Filenames

    Do I have this right?

    Alphabetizing

    Thank you, Dat Ei, for your extensive explanation that "covers the waterfront." I appreciate your taking the time to put your answer in a global perspective. You talk about 3 types of applications that can sort files. If I'm not mistaken, we're dealing with the third type in dpba, is that right?

    My understanding is that alphabetizing occurs on the first letter of the first word in a name as presented regardless of the order in which a name it presented (First first, or Last first).

    Furthermore, as I understand it, alphabetizing affect s the listing order in several places: a) Main text boxes across top of screen, b) Track Listings in the body of the screen, c) listings in the Tags tab of the lower-left pane, d) and also in the Player interface used to select music.

    Further, Windows File Explorer will always alphabetize folders as a matter of course.

    Therefore, if I have not used a sort tag, then I presume name listings will occur in some random out-of-alpha-order wherever they are listed (except for File Explorer folders).

    However, if I have used a sort tag it will alphabetize (on first letter) everywhere that such tag is listed.

    Do I have this right?
    dbarnby

  9. #354
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    In post *332, item 4) I asked if there were a way to edit the genre selection pull-down list so It includes the genre that I want (the way I want them). It seems to me someone answered that but I can't seem to locate the answer. Anyway, is there a way to do this; if so, what is that?

    Thank you,
    dbarnby

  10. #355
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    You talk about 3 types of applications that can sort files. If I'm not mistaken, we're dealing with the third type in dpba, is that right?
    It is important to understand the meaning of and the differences between filenames, tags and sort tags. At the end of the day it depends on your player software if the software sorts by filenames, tags or sort tags. So the conclusion is to take care about filenames, tags and sort tags. This way you are prepared for any kind of player software and its way to sort the files.


    Dat Ei

  11. #356
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Don,
    I'm totally confused by your thought process/reasoning for your question that is in post *352. The last line in mville's post *350 is the explanation for your question. Here is an example of a Naming string that puts the disc no in the filename.

    [IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[IFCOMP][album][][IF!COMP][artist][][]\[album]\[disc].[track] - [title]

    The filename portion of the Naming string is the [disc].[track] - [title] For example, the filename for disc 1 and track 1 would display in File Explorer as: 1.01 - track title Look at mville's post *346. He adds the artist name to the filename so a filename is: 1.01 Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells (Part One).flac

    As has been said a number of times, I don't think you understand the Windows file system. You need to learn the difference between folders and files.

    Gary

  12. #357
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Hi Dat Ei,

    I don't understand your answer to the question I asked [You talk about 3 types of applications that can sort files. If I'm not mistaken, we're dealing with the third type in dpba, is that right?] OR are you referring to 3 types of Players?

    Further, please help me out here. You talk about the "differences" between filenames, tags and sort tags. I'm not sure about what differences you are referring to so I don't know if I understand those or not. Please elaborate on those differences that you are referring to.

    Thanks,
    dbarnby

  13. #358
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Oggy, I would be helpful to me to hear your thoughts on my post *353. Is my understanding of Name reversal correct? How about my understanding of Alphabetizing?

    Thank you,
    dbarnby

  14. #359
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    You talk about 3 types of applications that can sort files. If I'm not mistaken, we're dealing with the third type in dpba, is that right?] OR are you referring to 3 types of Players?
    I'm not talking about dBpa in that context. I'm talking about the applications you will handle your music files with once you have ripped your CDs or converted your audio files. That will be audio players mainly like mobile devices, car stereo systems, your Hifi system etc. pp.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbarnby View Post
    You talk about the "differences" between filenames, tags and sort tags. I'm not sure about what differences you are referring to so I don't know if I understand those or not. Please elaborate on those differences that you are referring to.
    Make up your mind what a filename is and in which context it is used. A filename is name of a file within a filesystem to identify it and to differentiate it from other files. Tags and sort tags are metadata within an audio file. They are of no use for the filesystem, but can be useful for audio players, if those players are capable to read and understand the audio file format and its metadata.

    If you rip a CD, you will give the resulting audio files filenames at least. The tags and sort tags are optional. To get the best flexibilty and to be prepared for all kind of audio players it is a good idea to take care about the tags and the sort tags.

    So you take care about the tags not for dBpa, but for the daily usage of your audio files after you have ripped or converted with dBpa.


    Dat Ei

  15. #360
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    Re: Set-Up for Ripping

    This is not meant to offend anyone here, so I hope it is not taken that way. I have tried my best, but for me, this thread has become almost impossible to answer. The OP is unable to grasp what is being advised.

    It is like going to college to study higher mathematics, without first going to school to learn the basics of addition and subtraction. It is just not possible so, as they say, I'm out.

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