dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

[chess]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

Yes, wav is a "container" that is a holds a lossless version of the track that can be converted back losslessly to LPCM, which is what is on the CD. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV

As mville points out, one can never be sure what a producer of a CD actually used. It is all up to the honesty and reputation of the maker of the CDs. There are certainly CDs out there that are created from mp3 files. Not that many, but they do exist. Just as there are hi-res 24/192 tracks one can buy that are simply upconverted CD quality files (16/44.1), so this is a "fraud" as well.

The mp3 format is also going to convert to wav, as it is written on the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV. Please now what do I do with the plate Gina T. - 25th Anniversary. What do these three songs.

[garym]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

The mp3 format is also going to convert to wav, as it is written on the page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV. Please now what do I do with the plate Gina T. - 25th Anniversary. What do these three songs.

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, any digital music file (mp3, aac, ogg, etc.) can be converted to a WAV file. That's the whole issue we're talking about there. Just because a file is lossless (WAV or FLAC, etc.) doesn't mean that it is not SOURCED from a lossy source like mp3. Heck, I can take a terrible low bitrate mp3 file and convert it to a WAV file. I can even convert it to a hi-res 24/192 file. But it will only be larger and not have any additional audio information that wasn't contained in the crappy original low-bitrate mp3 file.

[chess]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

But I do not want to have the disc format mp3. I bought the CD and I have the highest sound track and not converted from mp3 on wav. Two programs called Audiochekers 2.0 beta (buli 457) - Dester and auCDtect Task Manager show me that they are on the CD mp3 are converted to Wav. And what about that asks to do - throw it out. It cost me 20 euros.

[garym]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

But I do not want to have the disc format mp3. I bought the CD and I have the highest sound track and not converted from mp3 on wav.

Sorry, your questions are not very clear. It seems you are saying you want to "rip" the CD using dbpoweramp to digital files and you want the digital file to be WAV. In this case, just select WAV as the output file format and your CD will be converted to WAV.

Or are you saying you have already ripped to WAV and now you want to burn this file to a CD-ROM as WAV (or as CD quality). In this case you need to burn a CD-Rom as an audio CD. Lots of programs can do this. Not sure about any dbpa programs for this.

Be a bit clearer about exactly what you are trying to achieve.

[mville]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

So I understand that there are no programs that would have shown that the manufacturer of the disc you cheated. Note that when you buy a CD you pay for the highest sound quality and not the mp3.

No, there are no programs that can determine the source material of an audio CD.

Redbook audio CDs are simply a format for recording/storing audio material, are certainly not the highest sound quality and no-one is claiming such.

Nowhere in law does it state that an audio CD must contain audio material that has been recorded and/or mixed and/or mastered on a medium that is equal to or greater than that of 16-bit, 44.1kHz.

There are many recording systems around, some old, some new, some analog, some digital. It is perfectly within the law to record audio to cassette or hard disk in mp3 format and then release it on audio CD. It might not sound any good, but it is not cheating.

I really don't understand your concerns raised in this thread. If you buy an audio CD and you don't like it for whatever reason, as a consumer, you are entirely within your rights to return the audio CD to the retailer (within reason i.e. there's probably a time restriction).

[chess]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

This unfortunately is not worth buying CDs because you can fool everyone. Please write it in such a case, what they are for programs such as

Audiochekers 2.0 beta (buli 457)
auCDtect Task Manager
Tau Analyzer 1.2

Is using them, I can say that the producers who recorded a CD deceived me. He gave a different file format than wav.

[mville]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

But I do not want to have the disc format mp3. I bought the CD and I have the highest sound track and not converted from mp3 on wav. Two programs called Audiochekers 2.0 beta (buli 457) - Dester and auCDtect Task Manager show me that they are on the CD mp3 are converted to Wav. And what about that asks to do - throw it out. It cost me 20 euros.

Audio Checker does not and will never prove that a CD was created from mp3 audio.

[mville]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

This unfortunately is not worth buying CDs because you can fool everyone.

So, what other options do you have for purchasing music that have the guarantees that you want?

[chess]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

So, what other options do you have for purchasing music that have the guarantees that you want?

The fact that the entire CD to be in wav without special treatment from other formats. So that everyone can burn a CD reworked mp3 format on Wav.

[mville]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

Audiochekers 2.0 beta (buli 457)
auCDtect Task Manager
Tau Analyzer 1.2

Is using them, I can say that the producers who recorded a CD deceived me. He gave a different file format than wav.

You are entitled to your opinion, but the above statement, IMO, is utter rubbish, very misguided and pure speculation.

Please read post no. 20. If you are unhappy with your CD purchase, return it.

[chess]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

Audio Checker does not and will never prove that a CD was created from mp3 audio.

That's why these programs show the whole truth about the disc.

[mville]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

That's why these programs show the whole truth about the disc.

No. They show that the audio on the CD is not of a good enough standard for you, that is all.

... time to walk away from this thread, me thinks!!

[chasnc]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

I had to laugh at this thread. The original poster actually has a reasonable request, but has failed miserably to ask his question correctly. It got me curious, so in searching, I think that I found the answer. I am posting this in case anyone else has the same curiosity.

The site for the software Lossless Audio Checker does claim that it can detect audio that has been converted from a lossy format to lossless format or to a higher resolution. As an electrical engineer myself, the problem with upscaling and upconverting looks fairly straightforward: you are going to see odd repeating samples and "stairstepping". Essentially, there are going to be odd artifacts that can be seen in the audio data, and audible noise such as "birdies". Sigma-delta audio easily creates birdies, for example, due to the noise shaping effects of Sigma-delta ADC conversion.

For anyone interested, here is the paper that this software is based upon:

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20180411/17972.pdf

So, if I read this site correctly, they WOULD be able to tell if an audio source was originally a lossy or lower resolution file and upconverted to LPCM or WAV by searching for these artifacts in the checked audio file. Sounds plausible to me, as an EE.

But a simpler solution is to not buy your CD's from a doggy pub. And don't post questions on forums in poor English and pointed comments. There aren't many people who will answer questions from a PITA.

- Charles

[mville]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

I had to laugh at this thread. The original poster actually has a reasonable request, but has failed miserably to ask his question correctly.

Can you clarify the reasonable request, the OP was asking?

The site for the software Lossless Audio Checker does claim that it can detect audio that has been converted from a lossy format to lossless format or to a higher resolution. As an electrical engineer myself, the problem with upscaling and upconverting looks fairly straightforward: you are going to see odd repeating samples and "stairstepping". Essentially, there are going to be odd artifacts that can be seen in the audio data, and audible noise such as "birdies". Sigma-delta audio easily creates birdies, for example, due to the noise shaping effects of Sigma-delta ADC conversion.

For anyone interested, here is the paper that this software is based upon:

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20180411/17972.pdf

So, if I read this site correctly, they WOULD be able to tell if an audio source was originally a lossy or lower resolution file and upconverted to LPCM or WAV by searching for these artifacts in the checked audio file. Sounds plausible to me, as an EE.

No one here is disputing that Audio Checker can check whether SOME wav files may have been sourced from a lower resolution. So, Audio Checker may be able to tell if SOME CDs are created from a lower than 16-bit, 44.1kHz digital source.

As I understand it, the points here in this thread are:
1. Ridiculous claims that EAC is better at ripping than dBpoweramp, based on the use of Audio Checker to verify this.

2. Audio Checker cannot know how every CD was recorded/mastered i.e. the quality/source(s) of the recording, mixing and mastering processes.

3. It is not cheating, to record/mix/master a CD at resolutions lower than 16-bit, 44.1kHz and/or formats that are not the wav file format.

[chasnc]

Re: dBpoweramp CD Ripper vs. EAC

[LEFT][FONT=Verdana]

No one here is disputing that Audio Checker can check whether SOME wav files may have been sourced from a lower resolution. So, Audio Checker may be able to tell if SOME CDs are created from a lower than 16-bit, 44.1kHz digital source.

As I understand it, the points here in this thread are:
1. Ridiculous claims that EAC is better at ripping than dBpoweramp, based on the use of Audio Checker to verify this.

2. Audio Checker cannot know how every CD was recorded/mastered i.e. the quality/source(s) of the recording, mixing and mastering processes.

3. It is not cheating, to record/mix/master a CD at resolutions lower than 16-bit, 44.1kHz and/or formats that are not the wav file format.

If I interpreted chess' question, he wanted to know if there was any way to tell if a CD has been "upconverted" from a lower level recording. I believe the software he found can do that, but the chance that you have a CD mastered that way by a major studio has to be very slim. But, if you are buying CDs from a street vendor in Hong Kong ... that is your own fault.

I wanted to pipe in on this as there is a ton of FUD out there in comparing dBPowerAmp AccurateRip versus EAC. Somebody needs to set the record staright (sorry for the music pun). I agree with you 100%, and from my technical background, I positively endorse that the AccurateRip technology is the best that there is.

If you set things up right, anything you rip that is verified by the AccurateRip database ensures that your CD and ripping matches 100% (well, 99.9999 ... %) what other dBPowerAmp users have submitted. The mathematical chance that a person can get a bad rip and still get the correct CRC value is incredibly small, and you are more likely to win the lottery. And, as more people add to the database, the better the accuracy of the CRC values. I would say that due to how a CRC is calculated, it only takes a few peoples' entry to get a reference point on the CRC.

And if the CD is not in the database, your software acts very much like EAC in trying to measure and validate the frames from the song by multiple rips and checking the data stream from each rip. I also like that you read the entire song in whole multiple times for this process and not thrashing the CD arm around reading block level data. Moving the CD arms aggressively over and over is going to wear out the bearings, springs, etc.

There is also some people out there who think that they can hear the difference between dBPowerAmp/EAC/etc. Wow. If you think that, you don't understand computers. It is all just data. including the music. If you get a perfect copy (like in dBPowerAmp), it will sound EXACTLY like a perfect copy from EAC. Because it is the exact same stream of binary data. Which causes me to do this: There are 10 kind of people in the world: those who understand binary numbers, and those who don't.

So to sum this up, as of the ripping technology available right now 2018.04, the technology used in dBPowerAmp is the best there is. As a hardcore techie and engineer, this is my professional opinion.

- Charles