New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

[kbird]

My understanding of CD Ripper is limited to simply setting up the software options according to the site instructions and then using the software in a basic way to rip some of my cds. I've ripped about 30 of my old (10 to 20 years!) cds with little problem. Recently I've bought some new cds from Amazon and have had a few problems.

One example is a set of 3cds where 2 of the cds have ripped without any problem but the third has returned a dialogue like this for several tracks:

Track 2: Ripped LBA 13885 to 19160 (1:10) in 1:30. Filename: /Users/kbird/Music/Glenn Gould/Goldberg Variations, BWV 988, 1981 recording/02 J S Bach - Variation 1.flac
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 105) Secure (Warning) [Pass 1 & 2, Ultra 1 to 4, Re-Rip 1 Frames]
CRC32: 25440451 AccurateRip CRC: 00A40B62 (CRCv2) [DiscID: 032-0034ef02-04c4cc05-d10c0820-2]
Re-rip Frame: 14376 (00:00:06.546) matched 10 / 12

I know roughly what it means has happened from the help pages on the website but am not sure of the implications. Is there a page on the site which suggests what to do if there is a less than optimum rip?

Should I be returning the discs to the vendor as faulty or do I just accept it? The tracks seem to play ok after all and I can't pick out any faults?

On one track on one cd I got just an ERROR message. It still seems to play ok to my ear but should I return it if purchased recently.

Please accept my apologies if the information I need is posted somewhere obvious on the site.

Thanks for any help

[mville]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

If the CD plays OK on a CD player I don't see any problem.

If you are arguing that because you cannot rip the CD bit perfect, you should be able to return the CD for a refund because it is faulty, I believe you are on very dodgy ground.

Audio CDs are not sold with a guarantee that you can copy it perfectly, but it is fair to except that it should play back in a CD player, without any audible errors.

[kbird]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

If the CD plays OK on a CD player I don't see any problem.

If you are arguing that because you cannot rip the CD bit perfect, you should be able to return the CD for a refund because it is faulty, I believe you are on very dodgy ground.

Audio CDs are not sold with a guarantee that you can copy it perfectly, but it is fair to except that it should play back in a CD player, without any audible errors.

No I'm pleased if I don't have to return it. It plays fine to me. I was just uncertain how serious it is, didn't know whether I'd got a cd so bad that I should return it. Your reply clarifies that for me.

In the case where I just got a report saying ERROR should I just relax and accept that as well? Certainly it is the simplest solution from my point of view! It would just be good to know what has happened in the rip that causes such a message.

Thanks for your help.

[mville]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

In the case where I just got a report saying ERROR should I just relax and accept that as well? Certainly it is the simplest solution from my point of view! It would just be good to know what has happened in the rip that causes such a message.

The CD could be scratched or have a minor manufacturing defect. I would try ripping the CD in another optical drive.

[kbird]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

The CD could be scratched or have a minor manufacturing defect. I would try ripping the CD in another optical drive.

I'm stuck there as I've only got the one apart from a redundant firewire drive. A bit of a puzzle to me in that I can't HEAR anything wrong yet ERROR sounds a really bad thing to have. I've had 2 tracks that have come up with ERROR and they have all been the first track on the cd. Perhaps that is significant?

[mjt5282]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

optical disks ripping abilities do vary - my standard Mac Pro DVD drives usually rip new factory CD's fine, but my Panasonic USB BD drive can rip disks the standard Mac drives can't (such as used scratched or poorly mastered ones). According to Spoon's guide to CD ripping, there are 75 frames per second of CD audio. 1 problematic frame will be 1/75 of a second. Probably not audible. Also, please be aware that for some CD's and DVD's, Amazon burns a CDR or DVDR, which will probably not result in a clean AccurateRip result.

[mville]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

A bit of a puzzle to me in that I can't HEAR anything wrong yet ERROR sounds a really bad thing to have. I've had 2 tracks that have come up with ERROR and they have all been the first track on the cd. Perhaps that is significant?

CD players use sophisticated error correction on playback.

The digits on a CD are encoded with built in protection, so the digits can be re-built based on expected patterns (this is very technical/mathematical, google Reed-Solomon if you are interested).

Also, for more severe errors, the CD Player firmware may interpolate the audio based on preceding samples. These errors are often inaudible.

For severe errors, users often hear the error as glitching, skipping etc.

However, when ripping CDs we are only interested in bit perfect rips hence all errors are reported.

[kbird]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

optical disks ripping abilities do vary - my standard Mac Pro DVD drives usually rip new factory CD's fine, but my Panasonic USB BD drive can rip disks the standard Mac drives can't (such as used scratched or poorly mastered ones). According to Spoon's guide to CD ripping, there are 75 frames per second of CD audio. 1 problematic frame will be 1/75 of a second. Probably not audible. Also, please be aware that for some CD's and DVD's, Amazon burns a CDR or DVDR, which will probably not result in a clean AccurateRip result.

Yes, that puts it into perspective doesn't it? As yet unaware of any audible fault so I'll just relax a bit until I can hear something that I'm unhappy with. Thanks for your input.

[kbird]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

CD players use sophisticated error correction on playback.

The digits on a CD are encoded with built in protection, so the digits can be re-built based on expected patterns (this is very technical/mathematical, google Reed-Solomon if you are interested).

Also, for more severe errors, the CD Player firmware may interpolate the audio based on preceding samples. These errors are often inaudible.

For severe errors, users often hear the error as glitching, skipping etc.

However, when ripping CDs we are only interested in bit perfect rips hence all errors are reported.

Thanks, that's very useful. I'm not aware of anything like glitching or skipping. I can see that zero tolerance is the way to go so that's ok. You've also given me a much clearer picture in my mind of what is going on during the rip in the case of this software.

My understanding at the moment is that my target is a perfect rip, that the disc itself or my hardware can both cause problems, that CD Ripper will do a good job of trying to get as much data as possible from a faulty CD with a possibly less than perfect CD / DVD drive. Bearing all this in mind if I can't hear a problem on either the ripped file or the original CD not to worry unduly. Does that seem a reasonable approach?

[mville]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

My understanding at the moment is that my target is a perfect rip, that the disc itself or my hardware can both cause problems, that CD Ripper will do a good job of trying to get as much data as possible from a faulty CD with a possibly less than perfect CD / DVD drive.

Yes, your understanding is right.

Bearing all this in mind if I can't hear a problem on either the ripped file or the original CD not to worry unduly. Does that seem a reasonable approach?

Yes.

[kbird]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

Thank you. I have learnt and the problem is solved.

[eaglescout1998]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

I would recommend having a second ripping drive handy, if possible. I always encounter discs that can't be ripped by one drive, but rip perfectly with the second.

[kbird]

Re: New user - should I send cd back to Amazon when I get an error?

Good idea. I've got a spare drive but it is firewire only. I'll take your advice and see whether I can get a firewire usb interconnect to make use of the drive.