"Sort" Tags

[Rudj]

Hi,
There's a process I don't realy understood the sequence; when I ripp a CD Perfect Meta analyse 5 databases (AMG, GD3, Sonata, Music Brainz & freedb) and measure the occurence to select the best one
So that's why sometimes there's a lot of tags incomplete, wrong or empty specialy in classical music
But I ask myself if that's the same thing for :

• Album Artist Sort
• Album Sort
• SoloistsSort
• ComposerSort
• ConductorSort

If I don't have this tag, does it mean that I can't do a sort in a musical library like iTunes or another one ?

Thank You for your help in this true question

[garym]

Re: "Sort" Tags

No, these "sort" tags are not needed for sorting in a music library. They serve another purpose. For example:

ARTIST - John Lennon

in most programs, this will sort under "J" for John. One could change the ARTIST tag to be "Lennon, John" and then it would sort under "L" for Lennon. But this would also likely make the track display on a player as "Lennon, John". Most people would prefer the display when playing to show "John Lennon". So to solve this problem, "sort" tags were created. I would make ARTIST = John Lennon, but then add ARTISTSORT = Lennon, John. This way, my track would sort under "L" but show "John Lennon" when playing.

The sort tags are not required and in fact I do not use any sort tags in my music collection. I just got used to the idea of looking at the first letter of the artist name when looking at the library database.

[BrodyBoy]

Re: "Sort" Tags

If I don't have this tag, does it mean that I can't do a sort in a musical library like iTunes or another one ?

To garym's description of how SORT tags work, I would add the important point that these are "non-standard" tags. That is, unlike the set of basic tags that are universally recognized by all players (ARTIST, TITLE, TRACk etc.), playback devices vary widely in whether they support the SORT tags.

You mentioned iTunes. It actually has very good SORT tag support....much better than most other players I've used. But don't assume most other players will use them. And when you get into the more obscure options, like CONDUCTORSORT or SOLOISTSSORT (which I've never seen before), you can safely assume most players will completely ignore them.

[schmidj]

Re: "Sort" Tags

Thanks for educating me too, I always wondered what these were for, also. Never got around to asking.

[mville]

Re: "Sort" Tags

I would add the important point that these are "non-standard" tags. That is, unlike the set of basic tags that are universally recognized by all players (ARTIST, TITLE, TRACk etc.), playback devices vary widely in whether they support the SORT tags.

That said, I use foobar2000, Asset and iTunes on the Windows platform and foobarCon on the android platform and for me, the Sort tags have been essential in organising all these libraries.

[garym]

Re: "Sort" Tags

That said, I use foobar2000, Asset and iTunes on the Windows platform and foobarCon on the android platform and for me, the Sort tags have been essential in organising all these libraries.

They work well in Logitech Media Server for squeezeboxes as well.

[mville]

Re: "Sort" Tags

That said, I use foobar2000, Asset and iTunes on the Windows platform and foobarCon on the android platform and for me, the Sort tags have been essential in organising all these libraries.

They work well in Logitech Media Server for squeezeboxes as well.

... and I would also argue that Artist Sort, Album Artist Sort, Album Sort and Composer Sort should be considered by end users as "standard" tags.

[BrodyBoy]

Re: "Sort" Tags

... and I would also argue that Artist Sort, Album Artist Sort, Album Sort and Composer Sort should be considered by end users as "standard" tags.

I think I would argue, more specifically, that device manufacturers should consider them standard tags and support them. Then, by extension, end users could/would/should use them as such. As you guys noted, I think many dedicated network players (vs. those "built into" receivers and other A/V devices) and software players now support SORT tags well, but beyond that, it gets pretty sketchy. Portable devices and car players immediately come to mind....

In my tagging, I've come to err on the side of overkill. I add every tag I think I may ever use, including several SORT TAGS, during my ripping/tagging routine. Unused tags don't hurt anything, so I'd agree that adding them to the "standard" repertoire is good practice, even if it's just future-proofing.

[mville]

Re: "Sort" Tags

device manufacturers should consider them standard tags and support them.

Agreed and the more end users demand support for these tags, the more chance that Hi-Fi manufacturers will wake up and have to implement them.

[fdoneit]

Re: "Sort" Tags

In my tagging, I've come to err on the side of overkill. I add every tag I think I may ever use, including several SORT TAGS, during my ripping/tagging routine. Unused tags don't hurt anything, so I'd agree that adding them to the "standard" repertoire is good practice, even if it's just future-proofing.

I agree with and like the idea of future-proofing your rips by tagging with at least all of the selectable tags within setup; however, when doing so Pre-emphasis, HDCD, and Checksum don't seem to be written to the metadata for me. Looking under 'Extended Tags' in MP3Tag. Not sure why this is?

[Rudj]

Re: "Sort" Tags

Night' Guys,
Thank You for explanations, it's clear now:smile2:

[cjk5933]

Re: "Sort" Tags

are these kind of tags recognized by Jriver?
Album Artist Sort
Album Sort
SoloistsSort
ComposerSort
ConductorSort

[Spoon]

Re: "Sort" Tags

These tags are dBpoweramps standardization, depending on format (mp3 / flac / m4a) the actual tag that gets written will be standard to the tagging format.

[mville]

Re: "Sort" Tags

are these kind of tags recognized by Jriver?
Album Artist Sort
Album Sort
SoloistsSort
ComposerSort
ConductorSort

Try asking on the Jriver forums. Someone there is bound to know the answer.