Problem with Album Gain and R128

[AndersHu]

I'm running dBpoweramp Music Converter Release 14.4 with DSP Effects Release 9.

When I use the EBU R128 option for ReplayGain calculations, the Album Gain always ends up as the same value as the Track Gain with the most negative number for that album.
The same happens when I use R128 ReplayGain DSP in the CD Ripper.

[Spoon]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

Possible bug noted.

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

Possible bug noted.

I'm seeing exact same outcome with ReplayGain DSP in the CD ripper when ripping FLAC files. RG DSP set to using R128 and creating album and track RG values. Not sure when it started....

[AndersHu]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

I did some more testing on the EBU R128 Calculation, using the official Test material from http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness.
Test case 8 from EBU Tech 3341 with a -23 LUFS Target gives REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN -0.22 dB, but should be -23.0 ±0.1 LUFS.
By comparing dBpoweramps results from a new Rock album, and pbelkner r128gain , it look like dBpoweramp uses the 2010 version, not the 2011 version of the EBU Recommendation (EBU Tech Doc 3341) -10 LU gates and 75% overlap.

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

I've now ripped 30 or 40 disks, and can confirm that I see this bug on every rip consistently. Redoing RG values in foobar2000 (which uses R128 as well) doesn't cause the problem. I look forward to a fix for this so I don't need to do this extra step. Thanks.

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

I've now ripped 30 or 40 disks, and can confirm that I see this bug on every rip consistently. Redoing RG values in foobar2000 (which uses R128 as well) doesn't cause the problem. I look forward to a fix for this so I don't need to do this extra step. Thanks.

Any update on this RG issue (the issue of using the largest track value as the ALBUM RG value). Thanks.

[Spoon]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

A new beta is being prepared

[Max Dread]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

Hi

Just stumbled across this and wondered what the latest is?

If this issue/bug is still a problem, should I avoid using RG (with EBU R128 option on) for now?

Cheers

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

Hi

Just stumbled across this and wondered what the latest is?

If this issue/bug is still a problem, should I avoid using RG (with EBU R128 option on) for now?


Cheers

Fixed with latest updates. DSP 10

[Max Dread]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

That's great news. EBU R128 @ -18 for me then I reckon....

A quick OT (seeing as it is an old thread)... I plan to rip to mp3 for use on an ipod. I will likely use the Foobar Ipod Manager to convert the RG to Soundcheck. With this in mind, do I need to tick "Write iTunNorm Tag for iTunes"?

Many thanks

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

That's great news. EBU R128 @ -18 for me then I reckon....

A quick OT (seeing as it is an old thread)... I plan to rip to mp3 for use on an ipod. I will likely use the Foobar Ipod Manager to convert the RG to Soundcheck. With this in mind, do I need to tick "Write iTunNorm Tag for iTunes"?

Many thanks

It can't hurt anything to tick the ITUNNORM box.

[Max Dread]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

That's good then.

It was the part in the help file which says: "allows iTunes to use the track normalization values generated" which made me think I should untick it. I won't be using iTunes. But I will be using an iPod (with Foobar Ipod Manager). So presumably one of these two is able to make use of the ITUNNORM, not just iTunes as the Help suggests?

At the end of the day, so long as ticking it does not effect the normal writing of both Track and Album RG tags (it is ADDITIONAL rather than INSTEAD OF) then I'm happy.

Many thanks

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

That's good then.

It was the part in the help file which says: "allows iTunes to use the track normalization values generated" which made me think I should untick it. I won't be using iTunes. But I will be using an iPod (with Foobar Ipod Manager). So presumably one of these two is able to make use of the ITUNNORM, not just iTunes as the Help suggests?

At the end of the day, so long as ticking it does not effect the normal writing of both Track and Album RG tags (it is ADDITIONAL rather than INSTEAD OF) then I'm happy.

Many thanks

Correct, the iTUNNORM tag is independent of (addiitonal to) the RG Album and Track gain tag items. Any ipod needs a SOUNDCHECK value (i.e., iTUNNORM) to do volume normalization on playback. They can't use RG tag info. dbpa (and mp3tag and I presume the foobar component that can load an IPOD (by the way, does this even still work and/or is it maintained?) all are doing the same thing: that is, taking your RG values and CONVERTING them into something an ipod/iphone/ipad can use: SOUNDCHECK VALUES

p.s. I'm not sure you have to avoid itunes at all cost. I use foobar2000 for computer playback but still use the itunes program only for loading songs on to iPOD (160 classic), iphone and ipad. Note that the foobar2000 component for loading an IPOD classic will NOT work on the iphone or ipad.

[Max Dread]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

Any ipod needs a SOUNDCHECK value (i.e., iTUNNORM) to do volume normalization on playback. They can't use RG tag info. dbpa....mp3tag and I presume the foobar component.....all are doing the same thing: that is, taking your RG values and CONVERTING them into something an ipod/iphone/ipad can use: SOUNDCHECK VALUES

Oh, ok. I did not realise that. I understood that Foobar and similar apps were capable of converting ReplayGain to Soundcheck. I did not know that DBPA could do it as well; nor did I know that that was what happens when you check iTUNNORM in settings. Thanks for explaining and clarifying.

So.... If transferring Soundcheck tag from iTunes, the iPod will have Track Gain. Correct? But if I write the Soundcheck tag by enabling iTUNNORM in DBPA ***AND*** Album Gain is ticked in the DBPA settings, the Soundcheck file will be Album Gain instead. Is that correct? And if so, does that mean I would never be able to have Track Gain on the iPod using only that strategy? Hope my questions are making sense!?!?!

p.s. I'm not sure you have to avoid itunes at all cost. I use foobar2000 for computer playback but still use the itunes program only for loading songs on to iPOD (160 classic), iphone and ipad. Note that the foobar2000 component for loading an IPOD classic will NOT work on the iphone or ipad.

I have no plans to get an iphone or ipad. Nevertheless, I have not ruled out iTunes entirely. I'm just not keen. I guess the reasons are probably better explored in another thread..... But for the sake of completeness, I've always steered away from iTunes due to:

1. A possibly unfair (and partly unfounded) dislike of all things Apple. Including iTunes!
2. Tales of iTunes being very bloated, and possibly also invasive. I like to keep my PC clean and mean.
3. Fears of any kind of "syncing" between the iPod and iTunes which I did not want or plan for.
4. Fear of any comflicts iTunes may cause with other apps (again, largely unfounded).


OTOH, Smart playlists are a VERY attractive feature. And I think you need iTunes to update the iPod's firmware.

Anyhow, that's enough off topic(ish) detail for now!

Cheers

[garym]

Re: Problem with Album Gain and R128

Soundcheck for iPods can only hold a single volume normalization value. If you use the dbpa method, and have both track and album gain, soundcheck will contain album gain value only. Mp3tag can convert either track or album RG values to soundcheck using an mp3tag action (google for that). But it is one or the other.

Not sure how the foo pod component handles it. Aren't you using that now? What does it do?