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Thread: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

  1. #1

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    Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Hello,

    I'm new in using dbpoweramp, so I'm not much skilled in it. I wanted to ask about my problem:

    I have few hundreads of CDs ripped in flac and I want to use all of them in my iPod with some EQ. However iPod's equalizer is very crappy - EQ is applied after amplifying and in most cases produces distortion (clipping). The only way to apply EQ is to lower the gain of track itself (using iTUNnorm tags (sound check) - Apple version of reaplygain - is useless, because just like EQ, sound check is applied after amplifying). I know it is a destructive way for audio files, but the only way to use EQ. But iPod's preinstalled EQ presets aren't good for me, so I'm thinking about using EQ DSP while converting flac into alac. All of songs I have are recorded at different volume levels (95-100 dB). So the question is:

    What is the best way to adjust gain of all songs to the same level (95 dB), while also adding graphic EQ into them? The priority is to damage audio files as little as possible.


    Note: None of my songs have replaygain tags in them, so probably it can't be done with "replay gain (apply)" DSP.

  2. #2
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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Normally you do not boost frequencies, rather reduce the frequencies of all the other frequencies you do not want to be boosted.

  3. #3

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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    I was thinking about the same process. So lowering some frequencies should do the same equalization effect like boosting other, but the difference is, that when lowering frequencies, there shouldn't be more audible noise added compared to original file, just volume should be a little lower. Am I right?

    Could you please give me a "step by step" guide how to add permanent replay gain - album gain to 95 dB (while not having RG tags in songs) and also adding EQ DSP? Which one should I put first in DSP effects list? Does it even matter?

    Thank you.

  4. #4
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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Correct

    you would use these dsp effects:

    bit depth - set to floating point
    EQ
    volume normalize (set to replaygain)
    bit depth - to 16 bit (with triangular dither)

  5. #5

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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Oh, great, I didn't know about using bit depth. If I understand it right, changing bit depth helps apply EQ more accurate. The last question I have is about using volume normalize. When I want to use it, the only replay gain option is track gain. But that's not exactly what I need. If I'll use it, songs that should be quiet will be at the same volume level as much "louder" songs. Is there any other way of doing this? (e.g. force dbpoweramp to add RG tags first and then apply bit depth, EQ, replay gain (apply) and another bit depth)

  6. #6
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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Float allows it to clip without loosing information.

    Replaygain will put all tracks the same level...

  7. #7

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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoon View Post
    Replaygain will put all tracks the same level...
    I know, but that's the problem. When I'll want to play any gapless album, there won't be volume differences between "loud" songs and songs, that should be "quiet". Whole album dynamics will be gone. That's why I want to apply Album gain rather than Track gain.

  8. #8
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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    You have to: Add replaygain tags to all your files, then convert with the DSP Effect: ReplayGain (Apply) set to album gain.

  9. #9

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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Ok, I thought the only way is to use a 2-step-method. Thank you anyway. By the way, when I select flac file and "convert" it to flac with RG DSP effect, does the program anything to file itself besides RG tag?

  10. #10
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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Yes it reencodes, you should install the utility codec [Replay Gain] from codec central, then convert the FLAC file to this codec to tag the file.

  11. #11

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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Please excuse me for still bothering you, I just wanted to make sure I don't mess up anything. So it's the same to convert FLAC -> FLAC with Replay Gain tag -> ALAC with applied Replay Gain and EQ, or to convert FLAC -> ALAC with RG tag -> ALAC with applied RG and EQ? As both are lossless formats, the result should be the same.

    Anyway, I found something else I'm not sure about. I ripped a CD few months ago with dbpoweramp release 14.2 and now again with release 14.3. The first time I was just trying to rip CD with something different from EAC and I was satisfied with result (I only missed CUE sheet with pregaps detection). However I forgot to set offset for my BD drive. When I ripped the CD second time, I set offset, enabled C2 pointers and everything. I don't know much about CRC, but the problem is, that every song has different CRC and I can see some very minor differences in spectrogram. However when I verify both rips with CUE tools, they look ripped accurately. I'm adding rip info and CUE tools result below:


    Rip 1:

    Ripping with drive 'F: [Optiarc - BD RW BD-5300S ]', Drive offset: 0, Overread Lead-in/out: No
    AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: No, Cache: 1024 KB, FUA Cache Invalidate: No
    Pass 1 Drive Speed: 4, Pass 2 Drive Speed: 4
    Ultra:: Vary Drive Speed: Yes, Min Passes: 3, Max Passes: 6, Finish After Clean Passes: 2
    Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: 4, Maximum Re-reads: 34

    Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-5 -verify

    .
    .
    .

    17 Tracks Ripped Securely

    (the CD was not found in the database, so there were 2 passes and then additional 3 ultra secure passes)



    CUE tools:

    [CUETools log; Date: 06/10/2012 22:51:34; Version: 2.1.4]
    [CTDB TOCID: QVnZ6jlVHcpmRMQTDSOn1k4ZCu0-] found.
    Track | CTDB Status
    1 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    2 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    3 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    4 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    5 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    6 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    7 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    8 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    9 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    10 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    11 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    12 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    13 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    14 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    15 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    16 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    17 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    [AccurateRip ID: 002258c0-01b5606c-f90d6511] found.
    Track [ CRC | V2 ] Status
    01 [0a361b8b|38ac458a] (0+0/3) No match
    02 [8cb44897|03afd169] (0+0/3) No match
    03 [8783cfa1|d0398f06] (0+0/3) No match
    04 [c6336511|9a300ab8] (0+0/3) No match
    05 [65101416|b13e324b] (0+0/3) No match
    06 [e2c1a6cf|00276965] (0+0/3) No match
    07 [2dbd93cf|62667f98] (0+0/3) No match
    08 [fef7dbdc|a8180ab2] (0+0/3) No match
    09 [c603614f|2c22e04e] (0+0/3) No match
    10 [4488c4a3|d255217b] (0+0/3) No match
    11 [40e5166b|4a42a136] (0+0/3) No match
    12 [6e327de1|5c6ba9c8] (0+0/3) No match
    13 [8f005ee0|75c5fa58] (0+0/3) No match
    14 [a31dcbfb|e964e08d] (0+0/3) No match
    15 [12ba3568|2203e339] (0+0/3) No match
    16 [d8eb3ed7|21882807] (0+0/3) No match
    17 [723edc5e|dfcd0269] (0+0/3) No match
    Offsetted by 6:
    01 [1670e3b2] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    02 [368c1667] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    03 [204764bd] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    04 [c7cb833b] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    05 [83671400] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    06 [689ca87b] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    07 [0915b765] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    08 [0154eed6] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    09 [7a900b0d] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    10 [41e59d95] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    11 [bfbe1dc7] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    12 [7a2feedf] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    13 [02f6bbdc] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    14 [5887ef3f] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    15 [9b8a3220] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    16 [29ea9a87] (3/3) Accurately ripped
    17 [35a92b32] (3/3) Accurately ripped

    Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL]
    -- 100.0 [0D164B7E] [BE040041]
    01 89.9 [79F558CC] [7A9FBFC0]
    02 88.2 [56EDB16F] [E93F67EB]
    03 88.2 [4E0034DB] [FAFFE555]
    04 98.5 [186BE12A] [C877A02D]
    05 87.2 [4873FC88] [7487D930]
    06 97.1 [5A590E49] [5B745FA3]
    07 92.6 [EF195FEE] [86D46DC3]
    08 75.6 [BB9480F5] [3D000971]
    09 96.0 [91D53110] [EECCE4DA]
    10 73.7 [5D988707] [A7495742]
    11 100.0 [CEF8ACC7] [46F2994B]
    12 78.3 [8E676AAC] [023A15C9]
    13 100.0 [7ACBC3FD] [B36CF69C]
    14 82.3 [AAF71067] [75070511]
    15 89.1 [41B38DA0] [94D78E03]
    16 88.2 [18421D83] [523CB35C]
    17 85.6 [42504C87] [45B445B1]




    Rip 2:

    Ripping with drive 'F: [Optiarc - BD RW BD-5300S ]', Drive offset: 6, Overread Lead-in/out: No
    AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: Yes, Cache: 1024 KB, FUA Cache Invalidate: No
    Pass 1 Drive Speed: 4, Pass 2 Drive Speed: 8
    Ultra:: Vary Drive Speed: Yes, Min Passes: 3, Max Passes: 6, Finish After Clean Passes: 3
    Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: 4, Maximum Re-reads: 34

    Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-5 -verify

    .
    .
    .

    17 Tracks Ripped Accurately



    CUE tools:

    [CUETools log; Date: 06/10/2012 22:54:56; Version: 2.1.4]
    [CTDB TOCID: QVnZ6jlVHcpmRMQTDSOn1k4ZCu0-] found.
    Track | CTDB Status
    1 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    2 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    3 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    4 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    5 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    6 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    7 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    8 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    9 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    10 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    11 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    12 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    13 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    14 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    15 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    16 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    17 | (1/1) Accurately ripped
    [AccurateRip ID: 002258c0-01b5606c-f90d6511] found.
    Track [ CRC | V2 ] Status
    01 [1670e3b2|43e4da4a] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    02 [368c1667|abc53ba9] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    03 [204764bd|67cfabc1] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    04 [c7cb833b|98e3698c] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    05 [83671400|cf1f5d40] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    06 [689ca87b|83dcc00f] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    07 [0915b765|3d4d82a9] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    08 [0154eed6|a93e5fb7] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    09 [7a900b0d|ddd86abc] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    10 [41e59d95|cd64730a] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    11 [bfbe1dc7|c7de392e] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    12 [7a2feedf|6728bc96] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    13 [02f6bbdc|e8cff85b] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    14 [5887ef3f|9d0ae0ca] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    15 [9b8a3220|a9fccb28] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    16 [29ea9a87|706fc9a4] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped
    17 [35a92b32|a0eac691] (3+0/3) Accurately ripped

    Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL]
    -- 100.0 [88FF0FC0] [BE040041]
    01 89.9 [DF1F0AF0] [7A9FBFC0]
    02 88.2 [0CDEBB3A] [E93F67EB]
    03 88.2 [0CBF7DA7] [FAFFE555]
    04 98.5 [64254466] [C877A02D]
    05 87.2 [4FFF724A] [7487D930]
    06 97.1 [71D61637] [5B745FA3]
    07 92.6 [49495720] [86D46DC3]
    08 75.6 [09DAAD21] [3D000971]
    09 96.0 [95136552] [EECCE4DA]
    10 73.7 [B9BD5B3D] [A7495742]
    11 100.0 [3D5EAD55] [46F2994B]
    12 78.3 [13959324] [023A15C9]
    13 100.0 [15BD3449] [B36CF69C]
    14 82.3 [91558E7A] [75070511]
    15 89.1 [AC10AD3E] [94D78E03]
    16 88.2 [699577A6] [523CB35C]
    17 85.6 [1DE6DDE7] [45B445B1]


    Could you please explain me, where is the problem and which rip should be accurate? And if you know about some better ripping settings, please letme know, thank you in advance.

  12. #12
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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Ripping with a different offset would give a different CRC, but the rip is no less valid than the other...

    If doing ReplayGain apply, then the file is changed at the audio level, it is no longer classed as lossless (as lossless means the same as the CD).

  13. #13

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    Re: Dilemma about using replay gain and EQ DSPs together

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoon View Post
    If doing ReplayGain apply, then the file is changed at the audio level, it is no longer classed as lossless (as lossless means the same as the CD).
    Yes, you're right. I just meant that as both FLAC and ALAC are lossless formats, the result at the end should be the same no matter if I convert FLAC -> FLAC RG tag -> ALAC RG apply or FLAC -> ALAC RG tag -> ALAC RG apply. Because when you use similar procedure with mp3 and aac, the final result is different for sure.

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