Peculiar AcurateRip result

[greynol]

Hi Jean, Spoon, Brendan, Eli and whoever else I know from Hydrogenaudio and/or Digital-Inn.

This situation with EAC is pretty interesting. I'm curious to know what happens when you disable C2 pointers in EAC. When this is done, EAC will ask the drive to access different points within a track. It might also be worthwhile to try the rip in burst mode. Maybe one of these changes will make a difference(?).

Quick explanation (hopefully):
Without C2 pointers, EAC reads 27 sectors at a time until 2MB is read and then goes back and does it again. The next pair of 2MB sets will begin with the last 2 sectors of the previous pair for synchronization purposes. With C2 pointers, EAC reads 24 sectors at a time until 2MB is read and then moves on to the next set of 2MB beginning with the last 2 sectors (again for synchronization purposes). If cache flushing is enabled, EAC will read another 2MB prior to moving on to the next 2MB in order to make sure the 2 sectors used for synchronization are read from the disc (with or without the use of C2 pointers).

My limited understanding of dBpoweramp is that all passes (including ultra-secure) are done in burst mode and that no additional synchronization is used.

Lastly, I am concerned that dBpa is telling you that bad rips are secure when using C2 pointers with your Lite-On. This implies that you're getting consistent errors which are not being dropped by C2 pointers. It should not be behaving this way. I was also going to add that it should be safe to increase the maximum number of re-reads when using C2 pointers, but now have reservations in light this issue.

[Spoon]

>Lastly, I am concerned that dBpa is telling you that bad rips are secure when using C2 pointers with your Lite-On.

We are seeing a CD with errors right at the end of the track, the occasion when dBpoweramp failed to rip the track:

Track 17: Ripped LBA 322181 to 340190 (4:00) in 0:46. Filename: F:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 17 - I Travel.flac
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 4) Secure (Warning) [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3, Re-Rip 5 Frames]
CRC32: A99AA633
Re-rip Frame: 336063 (00:03:05.093) matched 10 / 14
Re-rip Frame: 336174 (00:03:06.573) matched 10 / 14
Re-rip Frame: 336684 (00:03:13.373) matched 10 / 14
Re-rip Frame: 336685 (00:03:13.386) matched 10 / 14
Re-rip Frame: 336795 (00:03:14.853) matched 10 / 14

Yes the error got past c2 pointer, and was consistant on 5 passes! perhaps c3 is not great on the Lite-on. Those frames which were re-ripped, they might not have been the ones that had the error.

For you to debug the EAC issue, if you can supply 2 wave files to Andre, one with the confidence 10 the other confidence 4, looking at the data he might know what is happening. This is an issue that needs looking into (as 4 other people had the same issue, and must be using EAC).

[bhoar]

Hmm...is the issue that the bad (but matching) rips are being submitted from EAC, not dbpa?

-brendan

[Spoon]

Yes, but not always.

[Spoon]

To be fair to EAC (and if you have the inclanation), rip 6 times in dBpoweramp with the c2 off and check that it never show the confidence 4 on the liteon.

[tourrilhes]

Hi all,

I've got some interesting new information. But let's start with a raw dump of data, as people may always find bits in there that I may have missed.

I decided to try a few rips at work. My work PC is different, single P4 instead of dual, different drives, different EAC version, same XP-SP2 though. I installed dBpowerAmp R12.4 on this box.

I plugged in my old HP cd16 (a LG GCE-8160B clone) that I was considering for ripping a while ago, before discovering that it was not good enough.

The other drive is the HP DVD 400c (a BenQ dw800a clone) that you have seen in action earlier.

I launched a first rip with the cd16 and dbpower amp and went for luch. When I came back from luch, the PC was dead. No BSOD, just black screen. After a reboot, I was able to get the following log :

dBpoweramp Release 12.4 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Friday, February 15, 2008 12:29 PM

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'E:   [HP       - CD-Writer cd16b ]',  Drive offset: 12,  Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active,  Using C2: Yes,  Cache: None,  FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max,  Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra::  Vary Drive Speed: No,  Min Passes: 3,  Max Passes: 6,  Finish After Clean Passes: 2
Bad Sector Re-rip::  Drive Speed: Max,  Maximum Re-reads: 34

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-8

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 1:  Ripped LBA 0 to 19747 (4:23) in 0:23. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 01 - Don't You (Forget About Me).flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 6715044E

Track 2:  Ripped LBA 19747 to 37659 (3:58) in 0:25. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 02 - Promised You a Miracle.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 63DBC412

Track 3:  Ripped LBA 37659 to 59511 (4:51) in 0:26. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 03 - Waterfront.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: E4B6EA46

Track 4:  Ripped LBA 59511 to 84007 (5:26) in 0:35. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 04 - Alive and Kicking.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 0BF98841

Track 5:  Ripped LBA 84007 to 102022 (4:00) in 0:27. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 05 - Glittering Prize.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 9BB254A6

Track 6:  Ripped LBA 102022 to 121395 (4:18) in 0:25. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 06 - All the Things She Said.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: B32BE33A

Track 7:  Ripped LBA 121395 to 143831 (4:59) in 0:32. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 07 - Sanctify Yourself.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 678621CD

Track 8:  Ripped LBA 143831 to 164445 (4:34) in 0:35. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 08 - Someone Somewhere (In Summertime).flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 6DD3829C

Track 9:  Ripped LBA 164445 to 185965 (4:46) in 0:31. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 09 - Ghostdancing.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: B9318C74

Track 10:  Ripped LBA 185965 to 204491 (4:07) in 0:27. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 10 - Up on the Catwalk.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 12)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 085C2B5A

Track 11:  Ripped LBA 204491 to 222940 (4:05) in 0:25. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 11 - Speed Your Love to Me.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 71BFDB0F

Track 12:  Ripped LBA 222940 to 249380 (5:52) in 0:34. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 12 - Theme for Great Cities.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: DEB9833A

Track 13:  Ripped LBA 249380 to 266932 (3:54) in 0:28. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 13 - Love Song.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 8EE87DA5

Track 14:  Ripped LBA 266932 to 283183 (3:36) in 0:22. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 14 - The American.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 20527E87

Track 15:  Ripped LBA 283183 to 303609 (4:32) in 0:28. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 15 - Sweat in Bullet.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 72F6D59E

Track 16:  Ripped LBA 303609 to 322181 (4:07) in 2:50. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 16 - Life in a Day.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 3, Re-Rip 25 Frames]
  CRC32: E21DFC83
    Re-rip Frame: 306268 (00:00:35.453) matched 10 / 11  (c2 dropped 2)
    Re-rip Frame: 306269 (00:00:35.466) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 306953 (00:00:44.586) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 306954 (00:00:44.600) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 307895 (00:00:57.146) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 307917 (00:00:57.440) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 307918 (00:00:57.453) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 307938 (00:00:57.720) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 308839 (00:01:09.733) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 308840 (00:01:09.746) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 311182 (00:01:40.973) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 311183 (00:01:40.986) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 311203 (00:01:41.253) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 314288 (00:02:22.386) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 314289 (00:02:22.400) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 314332 (00:02:22.973) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 315239 (00:02:35.066) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 318948 (00:03:24.520) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 318970 (00:03:24.813) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 318971 (00:03:24.826) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 319013 (00:03:25.386) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 319014 (00:03:25.400) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 319035 (00:03:25.680) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 320297 (00:03:42.506) matched 10 / 11
    Re-rip Frame: 321517 (00:03:58.773) matched 10 / 11

Basically, this drive is bad.

Now, let's try the HP DVD 400c.

dBpoweramp Release 12.4 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Friday, February 15, 2008 1:50 PM

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'D:   [HP       - DVD Writer 400c ]',  Drive offset: 1292,  Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active,  Using C2: No,  Cache: 4 KB,  FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max,  Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra::  Vary Drive Speed: No,  Min Passes: 3,  Max Passes: 6,  Finish After Clean Passes: 2
Bad Sector Re-rip::  Drive Speed: Max,  Maximum Re-reads: 34

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-8

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 1:  Ripped LBA 0 to 19747 (4:23) in 0:17. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 01 - Don't You (Forget About Me).flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 6715044E

Track 2:  Ripped LBA 19747 to 37659 (3:58) in 0:12. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 02 - Promised You a Miracle.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 63DBC412

Track 3:  Ripped LBA 37659 to 59511 (4:51) in 0:12. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 03 - Waterfront.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: E4B6EA46

Track 4:  Ripped LBA 59511 to 84007 (5:26) in 0:12. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 04 - Alive and Kicking.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 0BF98841

Track 5:  Ripped LBA 84007 to 102022 (4:00) in 0:09. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 05 - Glittering Prize.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 9BB254A6

Track 6:  Ripped LBA 102022 to 121395 (4:18) in 0:08. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 06 - All the Things She Said.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: B32BE33A

Track 7:  Ripped LBA 121395 to 143831 (4:59) in 0:10. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 07 - Sanctify Yourself.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 678621CD

Track 8:  Ripped LBA 143831 to 164445 (4:34) in 0:08. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 08 - Someone Somewhere (In Summertime).flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 6DD3829C

Track 9:  Ripped LBA 164445 to 185965 (4:46) in 0:09. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 09 - Ghostdancing.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: B9318C74

Track 10:  Ripped LBA 185965 to 204491 (4:07) in 0:07. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 10 - Up on the Catwalk.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 12)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 085C2B5A

Track 11:  Ripped LBA 204491 to 222940 (4:05) in 0:07. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 11 - Speed Your Love to Me.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 71BFDB0F

Track 12:  Ripped LBA 222940 to 249380 (5:52) in 0:09. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 12 - Theme for Great Cities.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: DEB9833A

Track 13:  Ripped LBA 249380 to 266932 (3:54) in 0:06. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 13 - Love Song.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 8EE87DA5

Track 14:  Ripped LBA 266932 to 283183 (3:36) in 0:05. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 14 - The American.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 20527E87

Track 15:  Ripped LBA 283183 to 303609 (4:32) in 0:07. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 15 - Sweat in Bullet.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 72F6D59E

Track 16:  Ripped LBA 303609 to 322181 (4:07) in 0:05. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 16 - Life in a Day.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 13)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: E21DFC83

Track 17:  Ripped LBA 322181 to 340190 (4:00) in 0:06. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 17 - I Travel.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 10)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 951F067A

--------------

17 Tracks Ripped Accurately

Confidence 10. Good.

I did 7 rip total with dBpowerAmp and the HP DVD 400c, and I always got the same result. For example, this is the 7th and last rip.

dBpoweramp Release 12.4 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Friday, February 15, 2008 2:03 PM

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'D:   [HP       - DVD Writer 400c ]',  Drive offset: 1292,  Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active,  Using C2: No,  Cache: 4 KB,  FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max,  Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra::  Vary Drive Speed: No,  Min Passes: 3,  Max Passes: 6,  Finish After Clean Passes: 2
Bad Sector Re-rip::  Drive Speed: Max,  Maximum Re-reads: 34

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-8

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 17:  Ripped LBA 322181 to 340190 (4:00) in 0:08. Filename: C:\Music-dBamp\Simple Minds\Simple Minds - The Best of Simple Minds Disc 1 - 17 - I Travel.flac
  AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 10)     [Pass 1]
  CRC32: 951F067A

--------------

1 Tracks Ripped Accurately

That's pretty good.

<EAC result in new message>

Jean

[tourrilhes]

Hi again,

Now, of course, we want to know how EAC compare on the same setup.

While I was setting up and configuring dBpoweramp, I did a rip with EAC on the cd16. The rip took around 1h30, including two cooling periods of 10min.

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 15. February 2008, 12:20

Simple Minds / The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)

Used drive  : HP      CD-Writer cd16b   Adapter: 1  ID: 1

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

Read offset correction                      : 12
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -6 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  4:23.22 |         0    |    19746   
        2  |  4:23.22 |  3:58.62 |     19747    |    37658   
        3  |  8:22.09 |  4:51.27 |     37659    |    59510   
        4  | 13:13.36 |  5:26.46 |     59511    |    84006   
        5  | 18:40.07 |  4:00.15 |     84007    |   102021   
        6  | 22:40.22 |  4:18.23 |    102022    |   121394   
        7  | 26:58.45 |  4:59.11 |    121395    |   143830   
        8  | 31:57.56 |  4:34.64 |    143831    |   164444   
        9  | 36:32.45 |  4:46.70 |    164445    |   185964   
       10  | 41:19.40 |  4:07.01 |    185965    |   204490   
       11  | 45:26.41 |  4:05.74 |    204491    |   222939   
       12  | 49:32.40 |  5:52.40 |    222940    |   249379   
       13  | 55:25.05 |  3:54.02 |    249380    |   266931   
       14  | 59:19.07 |  3:36.51 |    266932    |   283182   
       15  | 62:55.58 |  4:32.26 |    283183    |   303608   
       16  | 67:28.09 |  4:07.47 |    303609    |   322180   
       17  | 71:35.56 |  4:00.09 |    322181    |   340189   


Track  1

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\01. Don't You  (Forget About Me).wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 487A7195
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [9BA816FF]
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\02. Promised You A Miracle.wav

     Peak level 85.0 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 9ED50EFF
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [36E7F92C]
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\03. Waterfront.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 68C00078
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [981E8F85]
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\04. Alive And Kicking.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC C07A94CE
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [D44EAE69]
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\05. Glittering Prize.wav

     Peak level 92.2 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 500E2E66
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [75297EFD]
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\06. All The Things She Said.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC A5FD6BCD
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [AF6E4CFA]
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\07. Sanctify Yourself.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 152B3E6E
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [ACA7B957]
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\08. Someone Somewhere  (In Summertime).wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 44A22C24
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [E61310B5]
     Copy OK

Track  9

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\09. Ghostdancing.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 66667583
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [AA0CCA71]
     Copy OK

Track 10

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\10. Up On The Catwalk.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC B2586CED
     Accurately ripped (confidence 12)  [2B15E393]
     Copy OK

Track 11

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\11. Speed Your Love To Me.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 5739A736
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [479AB79D]
     Copy OK

Track 12

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\12. Theme For Great Cities.wav

     Peak level 98.8 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC 0DB88A31
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [BF21FE4C]
     Copy OK

Track 13

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\13. Love Song.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 8AEB8312
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [B9D17FF5]
     Copy OK

Track 14

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\14. The American.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC C7AE4268
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [EF37DE1A]
     Copy OK

Track 15

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\15. Sweat In Bullet.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 6B09BC57
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [F6EFB38C]
     Copy OK

Track 16

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\16. Life In A Day.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC A1904F56
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [72453766]
     Copy OK

Track 17

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\17. I Travel.wav

     Suspicious position 0:03:22
     Suspicious position 0:03:24
     Suspicious position 0:03:26 - 0:03:59

     Peak level 100.0 %
     Track quality 90.4 %
     Copy CRC B89B86C9
     Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 4)  [2114987C], AccurateRip returned [FC233DE5]
     Copy finished


16 track(s) accurately ripped
 1 track(s) could not be verified as accurate

Some tracks could not be verified as accurate

There were errors

End of status report

This drive is usually pretty fast, but is bad on scratches. I basically retried every single block on the last third of the song.

Let's move to the HP DVD 400c. Remember that I already ripped on that drive (it was the very first rip I did), and that I found confidence 4 back then. Let's try another rip.

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 15. February 2008, 14:07

Simple Minds / The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)

Used drive  : HP      DVD Writer 400c   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 1292
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -6 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  4:23.22 |         0    |    19746   
        2  |  4:23.22 |  3:58.62 |     19747    |    37658   
        3  |  8:22.09 |  4:51.27 |     37659    |    59510   
        4  | 13:13.36 |  5:26.46 |     59511    |    84006   
        5  | 18:40.07 |  4:00.15 |     84007    |   102021   
        6  | 22:40.22 |  4:18.23 |    102022    |   121394   
        7  | 26:58.45 |  4:59.11 |    121395    |   143830   
        8  | 31:57.56 |  4:34.64 |    143831    |   164444   
        9  | 36:32.45 |  4:46.70 |    164445    |   185964   
       10  | 41:19.40 |  4:07.01 |    185965    |   204490   
       11  | 45:26.41 |  4:05.74 |    204491    |   222939   
       12  | 49:32.40 |  5:52.40 |    222940    |   249379   
       13  | 55:25.05 |  3:54.02 |    249380    |   266931   
       14  | 59:19.07 |  3:36.51 |    266932    |   283182   
       15  | 62:55.58 |  4:32.26 |    283183    |   303608   
       16  | 67:28.09 |  4:07.47 |    303609    |   322180   
       17  | 71:35.56 |  4:00.09 |    322181    |   340189   


Track 16

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\16. Life In A Day.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC A1904F56
     Accurately ripped (confidence 13)  [72453766]
     Copy OK

Track 17

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\17. I Travel.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC 6CC43F51
     Accurately ripped (confidence 4)  [FC233DE5]
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

Confidence 4 again !

I did a total of 4 rips on that drive today (so 5 if we include the very first one), and every single one of them is showing confidence 4. This is my fourth and last rip.

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 15. February 2008, 14:16

Simple Minds / The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)

Used drive  : HP      DVD Writer 400c   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : Yes
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 1292
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -6 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  4:23.22 |         0    |    19746   
        2  |  4:23.22 |  3:58.62 |     19747    |    37658   
        3  |  8:22.09 |  4:51.27 |     37659    |    59510   
        4  | 13:13.36 |  5:26.46 |     59511    |    84006   
        5  | 18:40.07 |  4:00.15 |     84007    |   102021   
        6  | 22:40.22 |  4:18.23 |    102022    |   121394   
        7  | 26:58.45 |  4:59.11 |    121395    |   143830   
        8  | 31:57.56 |  4:34.64 |    143831    |   164444   
        9  | 36:32.45 |  4:46.70 |    164445    |   185964   
       10  | 41:19.40 |  4:07.01 |    185965    |   204490   
       11  | 45:26.41 |  4:05.74 |    204491    |   222939   
       12  | 49:32.40 |  5:52.40 |    222940    |   249379   
       13  | 55:25.05 |  3:54.02 |    249380    |   266931   
       14  | 59:19.07 |  3:36.51 |    266932    |   283182   
       15  | 62:55.58 |  4:32.26 |    283183    |   303608   
       16  | 67:28.09 |  4:07.47 |    303609    |   322180   
       17  | 71:35.56 |  4:00.09 |    322181    |   340189   


Track 17

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\17. I Travel.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC 6CC43F51
     Accurately ripped (confidence 4)  [FC233DE5]
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

This drive is *very* consistent.

<More EAC to follow, stay tuned>.

Jean

[tourrilhes]

Hi again,

I started scratching my head, and wondered what was the difference between EAC and dBpowerAmp. One of the biggies is that dBpowerAmp does its first rip in burst mode, whereas I configured EAC to use Secure mode.

What about EAC in burst mode ? Let's try on the HP DVD 400c.

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 15. February 2008, 14:17

Simple Minds / The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)

Used drive  : HP      DVD Writer 400c   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction                      : 1292
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -6 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  4:23.22 |         0    |    19746   
        2  |  4:23.22 |  3:58.62 |     19747    |    37658   
        3  |  8:22.09 |  4:51.27 |     37659    |    59510   
        4  | 13:13.36 |  5:26.46 |     59511    |    84006   
        5  | 18:40.07 |  4:00.15 |     84007    |   102021   
        6  | 22:40.22 |  4:18.23 |    102022    |   121394   
        7  | 26:58.45 |  4:59.11 |    121395    |   143830   
        8  | 31:57.56 |  4:34.64 |    143831    |   164444   
        9  | 36:32.45 |  4:46.70 |    164445    |   185964   
       10  | 41:19.40 |  4:07.01 |    185965    |   204490   
       11  | 45:26.41 |  4:05.74 |    204491    |   222939   
       12  | 49:32.40 |  5:52.40 |    222940    |   249379   
       13  | 55:25.05 |  3:54.02 |    249380    |   266931   
       14  | 59:19.07 |  3:36.51 |    266932    |   283182   
       15  | 62:55.58 |  4:32.26 |    283183    |   303608   
       16  | 67:28.09 |  4:07.47 |    303609    |   322180   
       17  | 71:35.56 |  4:00.09 |    322181    |   340189   


Track 17

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\17. I Travel.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Copy CRC 896C151F
     Accurately ripped (confidence 10)  [FD203DE5]
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

Confidence 10 ! Interesting.

I did a total of 4 rips in burst mode with the HP DVD 400c (including the above), and all of them returned confidence 10. The fourth and last rip is below.

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 3 from 28. July 2007

EAC extraction logfile from 15. February 2008, 14:19

Simple Minds / The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)

Used drive  : HP      DVD Writer 400c   Adapter: 1  ID: 0

Read mode : Burst

Read offset correction                      : 1292
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format              : User Defined Encoder
Selected bitrate                : 768 kBit/s
Quality                         : High
Add ID3 tag                     : No
Command line compressor         : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\FLAC\FLAC.EXE
Additional command line options : -6 -V -T "ARTIST=%a" -T "TITLE=%t" -T "ALBUM=%g" -T "DATE=%y" -T "TRACKNUMBER=%n" -T "GENRE=%m" -T "COMMENT=%e" %s -o %d


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.00 |  4:23.22 |         0    |    19746   
        2  |  4:23.22 |  3:58.62 |     19747    |    37658   
        3  |  8:22.09 |  4:51.27 |     37659    |    59510   
        4  | 13:13.36 |  5:26.46 |     59511    |    84006   
        5  | 18:40.07 |  4:00.15 |     84007    |   102021   
        6  | 22:40.22 |  4:18.23 |    102022    |   121394   
        7  | 26:58.45 |  4:59.11 |    121395    |   143830   
        8  | 31:57.56 |  4:34.64 |    143831    |   164444   
        9  | 36:32.45 |  4:46.70 |    164445    |   185964   
       10  | 41:19.40 |  4:07.01 |    185965    |   204490   
       11  | 45:26.41 |  4:05.74 |    204491    |   222939   
       12  | 49:32.40 |  5:52.40 |    222940    |   249379   
       13  | 55:25.05 |  3:54.02 |    249380    |   266931   
       14  | 59:19.07 |  3:36.51 |    266932    |   283182   
       15  | 62:55.58 |  4:32.26 |    283183    |   303608   
       16  | 67:28.09 |  4:07.47 |    303609    |   322180   
       17  | 71:35.56 |  4:00.09 |    322181    |   340189   


Track 17

     Filename C:\Music-FLAC\Simple Minds\2001-The Best Of Simple Minds (Disc 1)\17. I Travel.wav

     Peak level 97.7 %
     Copy CRC 896C151F
     Accurately ripped (confidence 10)  [FD203DE5]
     Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

So, Geynol was (again) on something when he suggested me to try EAC without C2. The HP DVD 400c does not have C2 reporting (like all BenQ drives), so I can not try that here.

Also, remember that my PX-230A was in burst mode. It was an configuration error on my part, but without it I would probably would have missed this problem entirely. Probably it should stay in burst mode.

Finally, we have still not yet determined which version of the track is the "most correct" one, but I'll work on that soon.

Have fun...

Jean

[tourrilhes]

This is an issue that needs looking into (as 4 other people had the same issue, and must be using EAC).

That's an assumption that would deserve to be verified. Remember that in the other thread I linked, the user was using dBpowerAmp.

I expect that you have full access to the database. Would it be possible for you to verify what were the setup of the 10 and the 4 people ? What software they where using, which settings and which drives ? I know that you at least have info about the drives in the database.

Have fun...

Jean

[greynol]

That's an assumption that would deserve to be verified. Remember that in the other thread I linked, the user was using dBpowerAmp.

Yes, but unlike that user, you're experiencing consistent results with dBpoweramp.

I want to reiterate that all passes performed by dBpa are burst passes and you get the same result when ripping with EAC in burst mode. Busting out this thread can lead to some serious consternation, but let me just offer this post:
http://www.digital-inn.de/102661-post6.html

[tourrilhes]

Yes, but unlike that user, you're experiencing consistent results with dBpoweramp.

I fully agree, but IMHO we don't have sufficient info to know if the two issues are related or not.

My point is that we should look in the AR database to see what kind of information we can get about the 10 and the 4 matching rips to see if we can confirm or infirm our current hypothesis. I would expect this info to be very interesting, as thhose other rips introduce more diversity.

We may want to make a call for testers on Hydrogenaudio to try to enlarge the test base. Could we track the authors of the rips in the database ? We don't have the source code to inspect, so the only thing we can do is to treat it as a black box and make more elaborate and diverse tests.

I want to reiterate that all passes performed by dBpa are burst passes and you get the same result when ripping with EAC in burst mode.

Yes. I don't fully understand what different about burst mode and secure mode in EAC, what I know is that in all my drives, burst mode is 2 or 3 times faster than secure, even on drives with no cache and C2 pointers. So, I expect something is different. The code path in EAC is different, and the code path in the drive firmware *may* be different, but I don't have enough knowledge here.

When I'm back home, I'll try burst and no C2 on the Lite-On. I'll try secure with the PX-230A. I don't know what to try on the Samsung.

Busting out this thread can lead to some serious consternation, but let me just offer this post:
http://www.digital-inn.de/102661-post6.html

Once again, you totally lost me, but that was probably not for me.

Note that I believe the EAC sync errors are reported in the log (I would need to check that). I'll pay more attention to sync errors next time.

Thanks again...

Jean

[tourrilhes]

Note that I believe the EAC sync errors are reported in the log (I would need to check that). I'll pay more attention to sync errors next time.

Could not wait. With the HP DVD 400c in secure mode (once) and burst mode (once), I could not see any sync errors reported. I know I've seen sync errors in the past with EAC and other CDs.

I had forgotten another burst result, so at last count on HP DVD 400c :

Burst mode : 6 rips with confidence 10
Secure mode (+cache -c2) : 6 rips with confidence 4

Have fun...

Jean

[greynol]

I fully agree, but IMHO we don't have sufficient info to know if the two issues are related or not.

Then it's best to treat them as separate issues, otherwise you're asking us to disprove a negative.

Once again, you totally lost me, but that was probably not for me.

Note that I believe the EAC sync errors are reported in the log (I would need to check that). I'll pay more attention to sync errors next time.

I wasn't very clear why I gave you the link. Sorry about that. It seems to me that EAC may be incorrectly shifting the data for a best fit during synchronization without reporting an error. I could easily be wrong though, and it wouldn't be the first time.

Regarding what you find in logs, EAC only reports sync and read errors in the Extracting Audio Data dialog window.

[tourrilhes]

I wasn't very clear why I gave you the link. Sorry about that. It seems to me that EAC may be incorrectly shifting the data for a best fit during synchronization without reporting an error. I could easily be wrong though, and it wouldn't be the first time.

I've seen sync errors in the past, so my expectation was that if EAC is finding some sync error in this case it would report it.

Note that, thinking about it, I believe most of the sync errors were on the PX-230 in burst mode. I can not guarantee that I've seen sync errors in secure mode. I'll pay attention.

Regarding what you find in logs, EAC only reports sync and read errors in the Extracting Audio Data dialog window.

The last two rips I did on the HP DVD 400c, I explicitely checked the various window dialogs for sync errors, and found none.

Jean

[greynol]

Sync errors aren't reported in burst mode and I can see from your logs that EAC is not reporting errors so you would not see a sync or a read error.

My concern is that EAC may be shifting the data without telling you, though I have no way of knowing since I didn't author the program. It would be useful to compare the two versions though I concede that even if the two files differ by a shift somewhere within one of the tracks (resulting from repeated or omitted samples) it wouldn't mean that EAC is altering the data after getting it from the drive. It could simply be in the way EAC asks for data that causes the drive to give different results, whatever the differences are between the two versions.

It would be good to know the offset of your pressing relative to mine so that I could try burning a CD and test it with various drives to help rule out a consistent defect in the pressing in the event that I can also recreate the problem.