What audio hardware do you use?

[chileboy]

I'm a new dbpowerAMP user...hope this post is appropriate in this area.

I had been ripping everything to WMAL using Exact Audio Copy. I store everything on a Maxtor NAS, which supports UPnP AV.

I used WMAL up till now because I have a Pocket PC app that I love - it won't "yet" stream WMAL from the NAS, but I'm hoping for that support in a future release. I'd honestly prefer to rip to FLAC, but UPnP AV doesn't support streaming of FLAC, AFAIK.

So, since I can't yet stream WMAL, I started maintaining a parallel folder structure on the NAS with WMA 192kBits...which is what led me to dbpowerAMP (is there an accepted acronym for that?)

But now I want something more so I can stream to my audio system. I started looking weeks ago, and I have yet to find something that suits me. I thought my requirements were pretty simple:

• Can stream WMAL from a UPnP AV NAS (or any NAS)
• Does gapless playback
• Has digital coax and/or optical out

I've completely given up on the first. No one seems to support WMAL. I'm willing to go to FLAC, but then I am probably giving up any hope of ever streaming to a UPnP AV client, like my Pocket PC.

The thing is, all I want is to feed an audio bitstream to my processor/preamp, and let the DAC in there do it's thing. I don't need high-end Burr-Brown 24-bit processing or whatever, I already have that. Nor do I want to stream HD video (or any video, for that matter).

I don't want a PC in the mix running 24x7, either. Don't want the energy consumption, nor the bother of maintaining yet another computer.

I have looked at devices from Slim, Sonos, Buffalo, Dlink, Netgear, Olive, Helios, Roku, Tvix, and probably others that I can't remember.

I can't find a device that does these simple tasks, and does them well. The Olive comes pretty close, but costs way too much, as does the Helios - as I said, why do I need audiophile components to simply forward a bitstream? Am I missing something here?

The Sonos is more reasonable, and that's actually what I am leaning towards, even though it means switching over to FLAC. But I don't care for its proprietary nature, and I think it's still overkill for what I'm trying to do. Plus, even though it has digital out, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's actually using the internal DAC first, and then converting it back to digital, which in my mind kind of defeats the purpose (again, unless I'm missing something).

So, getting back to my original question (whew!) - what are others using?

Sorry for the long post (for those of you still reading) but I've become very frustrated and really can't believe I am alone in my dilemma. I've posted in other sites and found similar complaints, but I thought the folks here are more audio-oriented (and audiophile) and could give me their thoughts.

- Mark

[jtbse]

Hi Chileboy...

I'm very happily using the Roku solution. I have two Soundbridges, an M1000 in my main listening room attached to my Onkyo A/V amp, and an M500 attached to some powered speakers in my office. The M1000 connects digitally to the amp, so I'm using amp's onboard DAC. Of course the M500 is an analog connection to the powered speakers, so the Roku's DAC is used. I'm really no audiofile, but it all sounds pretty good to me. Does what I need at a more reasonable price than most of the other solutions out there.

For the server, I run Firefly (aka mt-daapd) on an unslung NSLU2 that attaches to two large USB drives, and it works quite well for me. But it doesn't do UPnP AV as you would be hoping. It runs DAAP (iTunes standard) or RSP (proprietary Roku protocol). Think maybe Ron (Firefly's author) is working on UPnP support though for a future release. FLAC (transcoded to WAV) works quite well for me (my network connections are all wired, not wireless) and is gapless. Most of my library is AAC/M4A (iPod compatibility) with some FLAC thrown in for more discriminating music or converted vinyl (which is why I started using DMC in the first place :smile2: ), and a few MP3 tracks thrown in the mix.

Depending on which model of Maxtor NAS you are using, Firefly may or may not work for you. Seems the MSS + is hackable and can run Firefly nightlies (you would need a recent nightly to transcode FLAC), but AFAIK nobody has hacked the MSS II yet, so that would be a bit more difficult unless you're into hacking around with Linux.

[jtbse]

Hmmm...tried to reply to this earlier but didn't show up (a moderator thing?). Oh well, I'll try again.

I'm using the Roku solution and very happy with it. I have two Soundbridge's; a M1000 that's attached to an Onkyo A/V receiver in my main listening room, and a M500 attached to a pair of powered speakers in my office. The M1000 uses a digital connection to the receiver, so I'm using the DAC on the Onkyo. The M500 uses analog connection to the powered speakers, so it's using the Roku DAC. I don't consider myself to an audiofile but it all sounds quite good to me (haven't played a CD in as long as I can remember).

For my server, I'm running Firefly (a.k.a. mt-daapd) on an unslung NSLU2 that has two large USB drives connected. Currently, Firefly doesn't support UPnP A/V as you desire; it runs DAAP (Apple iTunes std), or RSP (proprietary Roku Server Protocol...very fast!). But I think Ron (Firefly's author) is working on UPnP support for a future version.

My libary is mostly AAC/M4A (for iPod compatibility), with some FLAC (for more discriminating tracks or my vinyl rips/conversions), with a few MP3's scattered in. Firefly transcodes FLAC to WAV and it works quite well for me (all my network connections are wired), and FLAC plays back gaplessly.

Depending on which model of Maxtor you're using for your NAS, Firefly may or may not work for you. If you want to do FLAC transcoding, you'll need to be running a Firefly nightly, not the current stable, so if your Maxtor can't be "hacked" to run custom software, you'll have problems. I believe that the MSS+ has been "unslung", but not the MSS II (yet). So if you're MSS II Firefly probably isn't for you, unless you're into Linux hacking.

Hope it helps.

[chileboy]

Thanks for the reply.

I think one of my big problems, which you touch on, is the NAS I'm using. I think I need to be running Firefly or something. I have found some documentation that the Maxtor can be hacked, but it looks very complicated and problematic at this point. Also, as you surmise, I'm not familiar with Linux, and it's not an undertaking I want to embark on right now.

I found some other software that seems awesome called MediaTomb (MediaTomb site) which I think would also work, and it has been ported to a number of NAS drives. I'm trying to find out now if there is a port for the Maxtor. Otherwise, apparently Iomega is now shipping their 1GB NAS with this software. If that's the case, and the software is as good as it looks, I may try and sell the Maxtor on eBay or something pick up the Iomega.

If you get the chance and can look at that MediaTomb, I'd be interested in your opinion.

Thanks again,

- Mark

PS I noticed my first post took awhile to appear, since the forum is moderated sometimes I guess it takes a day or so until the post is approved and actually shows up.

[paul_2008]

Hello Chileboy.

It was with interest that I read this thread. I am a newby to all of this, but I roughly want to do the same as you were describing.
I want my digital audio stored on a NAS drive (I'm using LaCie 1 Tb), and use that to 1) convert to AIFF for mobile use on iPod; 2) stream to my Denon audio-set for home use.
Some requirements :
- store all data lossless in the NAS box.
- only tag once and be able to re-use those tags/artwork whatever way the data is used
- I am looking at Sonos system - but don't want to have my pc running 24x7 - is there a solution to have the NAS box directly connected/streaming.
- want to use the DAC of my DENON set

I have been reading forums for days now, and have not yet found the solution - when reading your thread it came closest to my requirement, so I'd be interested whether you found a solution yet ?

I am looking at using DbpowerAmp to rip to FLAC format, tag it.
Convert to AIFF for mobile use and use FLAC files for home use.
Does that make sense ?
Have you found software to stream your audio files to your audio set ?
any suggestions will help me.

thanks
paul

[chileboy]

Hi Paul -

Sorry for the delay in responding, I just saw your post. You may have figured a lot of this out already, but anyhow:

I've made a lot of progress with this. Where I am right now:

There's open-source firmware available for my NAS, the Maxtor Shared Storage II, that gave me telnet and ssh (i.e., Linux command-line) access to it. Then I installed MediaTomb on it - again, open-source software - which will stream to devices using UPnP (http://mediatomb.cc)

You would need to have command-line access to your NAS though - not sure how (or if) you can do that with the LaCie. Another alternative would be if LaCie has UPnP built-in, which is entirely possible. My Maxtor actually did, but it doesn't support .flac, and it wasn't very flexible.

I am in the process of ripping all of my CDs to .flac and storing them on my NAS. MediaTomb runs locally on the NAS - hence, there is no need to have a PC running. It performs the function of organizing the music into logical folders - artist, album, etc., as well as genres. MediaTomb is very customizable, so you can write scripts to arrange your music any way you like.

I've also heard good things about Firefly and Twonky, both of which can be run on hacked NAS devices, but I have no experience with them. I went with MediaTomb after looking at the various Websites - it looked closest to what I wanted for the purpose of streaming music (I have no interest right now in streaming video, although MediaTomb will do it). Plus, the support is absolutely stellar - I am talking minutes for responses much of the time. And, it is under intensive development right now.

For the time being, I am running some player software on my iPAQ Pocket PC which supports UPnP, called Pocket Player (http://www.conduits.com). It's excellent, the interface apparently rivals the iPod / iPhone, although I have no personal experience with either of those. My iPAQ has wireless, so I can connect to my home network and stream directly to it. I either use headphones or, when sitting in my living room, I use the headphone jack to plug directly into my system. And, it streams .flac files flawlessly and gaplessly.

Disclaimer: the latest version of Pocket Player is having trouble with UPnP - previous versions are fine - but the support is excellent, they are aware of the problem and I expect a fix "any day now".

Like you suggest, dbPowerAmp is great for ripping to .flac and converting to any format you want. For portability, I convert to .mpc and store them on Compact Flash cards, which is what my iPAQ uses. It maintains all of your tags (pretty much), so no worries there.

The last item I'm searching for is a piece of hardware so I can stream directly to my system without using the iPAQ. I looked at the Sonos, and a lot of others. I have problems with everything I have looked at (I've already talked about some of this). One issue is that, many of them (like the Sonos), are proprietary and I'm trying to avoid that (the Sonos doesn't use UPnP, so you need to use their devices exclusively). Another thing is that even though most of them have digital outputs, they actually are using their own internal DACs, and then if you use the digital outs, reconverting them back to digital - which kind of defeats the purpose. So, they have these high-end DACS built in that I don't need or want and makes them very expensive.

I did find a device from Linn called the Sneaky DS that has optical and digital coax outputs, and apparently does what I want - it simply decompresses the .flac and feeds a straight PCM datastream. Not sure of the cost, but their devices are very expensive and I am afraid it might be upwards of $2K - again, more than I want to spend.

But, I have to say, for the time being, just using the iPAQ jacked into my system sounds pretty good. If you're just looking for an inexpensive means of getting the music to your system, I'd probably look at one of the Rokus or something.

What I am looking at I think, is one of the newer preamps that has onboard network connectivity. You mention Denon - not sure what model you have, but the newer, higher-end models have this - you can connect them directly to the network and stream from your NAS running UPnP without any additional hardware (they also support Internet radio). I am looking at a preamp/processor because I have separates now, and want to continue using my current amplifier. Unfortunately, the only preamp Denon sells is their flagship unit, which lists for $7,000. But you can get one of their receivers with this capability for I think around $1500. And those features are starting to show up in other manufacturers' models.

As a side note, I am looking at replacing my pre/pro anyway (and display) because I'm heavily into home theater also, and I want to get into Blu-Ray and the newer audio codecs they use, which requires HDMI. My current system doesn't have any of that, although it is exceptional for straight audio. So I am looking to kill two birds with one stone.

Pretty long post...hope it's useful!

- Mark

[Transporter]

I use Slim Devices products. I have a Transporter, several SB3s, one Duet, and one Boom. Nice devices, well supported, can handle large CD collections, and even the least expensive play has audio as good or better then most CDPs.

[Thg6276]

+1 !

[RonM]

I've been using a Logitech/Slim Squeezebox Duet for the past few months. Very happy indeed.

I converted all my CDs to WMA Lossless (would have done FLAC except I use WMP for music at my computer, and it doesn't support FLAC), and have a variety of WMA and MP3 downloaded files. All work seamlessly on my Duet, sound quality is awesome, better than CD -- at least compared to my old fairly cheap player, which has a less than stellar DAC. I've something on the order of 10k tracks currently active.

I intend to acquire a FitPC (tiny low power computer, http://www.fit-pc.com/) to use as my 24/7 music server for this system, with an external hard drive.

R.