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Spoon
09-16-2002, 04:47 PM
An early beta with about 75% of all the stuff done I want to do. This codec adds - Windows Media v9 Standard (CBR and VBR), Windows Media v9 Professional (CBR and VBR), Windows Media v9 Lossless and Windows Media Voice options to dBpowerAMP Music Converter and dBpowerAMP Audio Player (see www.dbpoweramp.com).



Download:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/beta/dBpowerAMP-codec-wmav9.exe

4.1MB

Thing yet to be added - 2 pass VBR encoding, make decoding crossfade compatible with dAP, smaller distribution package.

SOT
09-17-2002, 12:17 PM
Just in case, IŽll post this DLL here, because I couldnŽt run AMP and Music converter after I installed WMA9. Just put this DLL (Msvcrtd.dll) on you dbpoweramp dir.


Download HERE (http://www.infantaria204.hpg.com.br/Msvcrtd.zip)

THX

Spoon
09-17-2002, 03:25 PM
Whoops my mistake, anyhow I have updated it to Beta 2 which is now crossfade compatible with dAP, download:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/beta/dBpowerAMP-codec-wmav9.exe

4.1MB

Nex
09-20-2002, 11:03 AM
Using beta 2, when transcoding from an mp3 vbr file to a wma 9 vbr file I get skips. The higher the bitrate, the fewer the skips.

More info later as this was late last night and I won't have a chance to try anything else till tonight. Nex

STAR
09-20-2002, 06:32 PM
hate to ask a stupid question.. but is there any way the codec could be used on a windows 95 machine like mine? I hate being behind the times and everything.. but I can't run anything more than 98.. which I refuse to run because I've had nothing but nightmares when I ran it before...
I hope its possible.. cause as of now it wont let me and that really sucks :(

Nex
09-20-2002, 07:21 PM
Now that last post of mine was a lousy one, wasn't it? Posted half asleep and 3/4 out the door.

I haven't had a chance to reproduce it yet, but at least let me give the details I know:

I'm using XP home. I do not have the full install of beta 9 on my system, just what dbp installed.

When I said the higher the bitrate the less a song will skip, I meant the *target* bitrate, and always in beta 9 vbr. The original transcoded files were also vbrs, but mp3s. Skips were most pronounced in quality 50 (the lowest I tried).

Sorry about the paucity of info in that first post. I posted mainly to see if anyone else was getting the same thing - at least I think that's what was slowly crossing my sleep-deprived brain this morning.

I'll try to reproduce this later tonight or tomorrow, whenever I have the time. Nex

Unregistered
09-22-2002, 02:10 PM
Why not give option for 2 pass CBR?

Spoon
09-22-2002, 04:38 PM
You mean 2 pass VBR? I wrote it on Friday, just need a chance to test it myself before releasing Beta 3.

totalXSive
09-23-2002, 05:44 AM
The codec dialog looks very confusing. Is there any way you can simplify it somewhat? Perhaps you could create a second options page, like with the Lame codec, so that there is more space for the options.

Seems to work okay, though. Using XP Pro SP1.

Spoon
09-23-2002, 02:48 PM
I don't like how everything is in the two boxes, but I didn't find away easily to extract that stuff and have seperate frequencies, bitrate etc...

Marco
09-24-2002, 01:21 PM
No. I can make 2 pass CBR in Windows Media Encoder, so this option exists.


Originally posted by Spoon
You mean 2 pass VBR? I wrote it on Friday, just need a chance to test it myself before releasing Beta 3.

Spoon
09-26-2002, 04:15 PM
Beta 3 is out, it adds 2 pass encoding for 'Power Pack' users:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/beta/dBpowerAMP-codec-wmav9.exe

4.1MB (don't worry about the size, it will drop after the beta testing)

decarteret
10-09-2002, 12:05 AM
problem: bitrate property is invalid

reproduce: convert any file to WM v9 (I used VBR 75 Quality 1-pass) and then check the metadata for the bitrate property

result: I'm typically showing in the 16,000,000 range.

expected: somewhere in the 90,000 - 190,000 range

Otherwise, this product is excellent! I like your efforts so much I purchased the Power Pack (which I didn't really need but I wanted to support your development)

Spoon
10-09-2002, 01:08 PM
I think this one is a Microsoft Bug, the bitrate label is written by WMA its self, it looks like they are 10x out :) You could work out the average bit rate by deviding the file size by length in seconds then * 8 to bits.

decarteret
10-09-2002, 04:47 PM
Spoon,

Thanks for your quick reply.

I did some further testing... I started with a WAV file and encoded it into WM v9 VBR quality 75 using a few different programs. Following are the output results:

WMP v9 build 2903 -- 104bps
Easy CD-DA Extractor 5.0 -- 104bps
dbPowerAmp v9 beta add-in -- 11613bps

I understand the WMFSDK handles the writing of the bit rate metadata to the header but I can't understand how it might be screwed up. Ideally, I'd like this to be working because I rely on this metadata to populate some fields in my media file indexing software.

I plan on writing a conversion sample myself for a side project but I won't be able to get to it until I have some free time, which will be NEVER!!! Man. I can't complain though.

If you could look into this a little more that would be amazingly helpful.

Thank you!!

Jason

Unregistered
10-10-2002, 09:39 AM
I got the wma v9 codec beta from microsoft and from dbpoweramp, but I have many problems:

- after that my mp3 sounds slow
- I cant play any file encoded in wma v9 in CBR, only in VBR in my nomad jukebox

What is CBR, what can couse this problem?

if I record in VBR, is no good becouse some times I get very low bitrates.

Thanks!

Spoon
10-10-2002, 11:30 AM
Sounds like the Nomad is not fully WMA9 compatible, do they play ok in Windows Media Player?

SOT
10-10-2002, 12:30 PM
Hey I had that problem... I had WMP 9 build 2.799, and mpeg videos and mp3 sounded slow... What did I do to solve? Downloaded build 2800, unistalled DFX plugin I had installed, and on the options menu, I clicked on Advanced and checked all options and put that performance slider to the max...

works fine now...

Unregistered
10-13-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by Spoon
Sounds like the Nomad is not fully WMA9 compatible, do they play ok in Windows Media Player?

This is related to a question I cam here to se if I could have answered. From what you're saying here Spoon, I'm assuming that a portable MP3 player has to support decoding of v9 WMA files in order for them to play properly.

I have a Frontier Labs NEX II MP3 player with firmware that I’m guessing, but not yet certain, was written before the WMA v9 encoders have been available. Am I right in assuming that an MP3 player wit specs saying it supports WMA v8 will >not< properly play v9 files?

Thanks,

NatSkanson

Spoon
10-13-2002, 05:35 AM
No I don't think so, WMA 9 can be decoded without any upgrades.
Each portable will have limitations on what it can decode, certain players will not be able to handle the demands of WMA9.

Unregistered
10-13-2002, 05:22 PM
Hi there! I'm the one that had written the message "I Got...many problems"

Sorry for my poor english (Im Brazilian)

I had not answerd the questions becouse I was traveling.
___________________________________________
do they play ok in Windows Media Player?
___________________________________________
Yes they do!


The problem is that I cannot uninstall the WMP - I dont know whay?

But the good news is that the V9 wma songs are working now in my juke box - can this be a beta bug? (I had read somewere that all wma players will suport new versions of wma and the old ones as well)

have any one that have a nomad Jukebox (or similar) and had done the test?

Thanks Again!

William!
and I was thinking:
VBR (is it varable bit rate?) and CBR (what is constant bit rate) - please don't laughf of me - its becouse my english is no good.

Cosmo q
10-13-2002, 08:16 PM
Hi,

I just registered the power pack because I really love the program and wanted to use the 2-pass VBR settings.

I was very happy to realize the new codec could be played on my old HipZip. This mp3 player was build long before they started on WMA9 so I was very suprised.

Some questions: I mainly use dmc for converting cd's en mp3's to the size of 40mb (actually 38,3) to fit one CD on a disk (the HiZip uses PocketZip disks). So variable bitrate means better sound quality for the same space. Normally I rip a CD and compress the tracks with different bitrates to get an total size a little less than 40Mb. Could there be a way to use variable bitrate to get an exact size after compression, like video codecs use? I doubt it cause the encoders only accepts certain bitrates, but would be great.
For the same reason I miss the 80kbs option in the 2-Pass VBR encoding, but I noticed it isn't in the WM-Encoder by microsoft so it seams impossible.

About the beta. When Using the Sveta PA (right click on track convert to -> My DAP) I noticed some buggy settings dialog for the WMA9 compression. It only has 2 options the ACELP.net codec and the DivX;-) Audio codec. Certainly the last one seems a bit lost.

Greetings,
Cosmo q

Unregistered
10-13-2002, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Spoon
No I don't think so,


Does that mean you don't think my assumption is correct ? Or that you don't think that the v7 - v8 encoder that the NEX II uses will play v9 files to their full potential, as I was guessing?



WMA 9 can be decoded without any upgrades.
Each portable will have limitations on what it can decode, certain players will not be able to handle the demands of WMA9.

Yes... Frontier Labs has confirmed that the v9 files can be player in the NEX II, but they failed to say whether or not the player's decoder will get the full potential out of the v9 files. Is that you're conclusion?

NatSkanson

Spoon
10-14-2002, 02:49 AM
Cosmo q - With a little experimenting a Quality Setting should always fit an album in a certain size.

"ACELP.net codec and the DivX" - I havn't seen DivX appear in mine, so you dont get the standard 3 'Windows Media'?

Unregistered - The only way to be sure is to use your ears, I would think if it was not working correctly then you would instantly hear it not working.

Unregistered - VBR is variable bit rate, and CBR is constant bit rate.

Cosmo q
10-14-2002, 04:54 AM
About the Settings.

Indeed I don't get the normal 3 Windwos Media.
Only under these conditions. (as a settings dialog with the Sveta da). Otherwise they work just fine. I could try it on other computers if you like.

I do a lot of experimenting to get the right size. I have a table with target bit rates (or you can just calculate them) for different durations. And then I convert a couple of songs with a higher or lower bitrate to closer match the 38,3Mb. But with the 2-pass encoding it takes a lot more time. Do you have any idea if there is a big difference between the 1-pass and the 2-pass in quality? The problem with the Quality settings is I have no idea what the outcome size will be. So it's a lot more guessing where to start.

Another thing I noticed about the beta is that the status bar only reflects the first pass. I don't know if it is possible to work around this but is would be better to know the real progress.

Greetings,
Cq

Unregistered
10-14-2002, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Spoon
Unregistered - The only way to be sure is to use your ears, I would think if it was not working correctly then you would instantly hear it not working.

You can call me NatSkanson... I hate the whole process of signing in everywhere, but eventually do if it eventually turns out to be a good spot to hang out.

I was just hoping to find someone with specific knowledge of the way the v9 WMA encoded files are handled with v8 and before decoders. I don't have headphones yet, or a stereo with me to be able to do any audio listening tests yet. I've got to decide between the Sony MDR-4509 which I've tested and like, and the Grado SR-80 and SR-125 which I have to drive 2 hours to audition.

I wonder if there's a Microsoft forum for the WMA encoding scheme where these questions about v9 might be answered.

NatSkanson

Spoon
10-15-2002, 02:47 AM
Most of the WMA players - Rio / Creative Nomad were released when it was WMA v2, since then we have had v7, v8 & v9.

For the first time in the documentaion MS have started talking about 'wma v9 compatible' devices, but this could be because of thing such as the new lossless compression.

MS have WMA newsgroups.

Razgo
10-15-2002, 03:22 AM
I haven't heard of sony MDR-4509 before.
but I have a pair of MDR-7509 and there pretty good except for the expenisive price tag.

Spoon
10-15-2002, 04:23 PM
Had a look at the 'two codec options' only appearing when sending to a mp3 device (Windows Media Audio Device), it is because my mp3 device sending code is written in WMA v8, it is only loading the WMA v8 profiles, until MS release the WMA v9 WDM SDK nothing can be done.

Unregistered
10-15-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by Razgo
I haven't heard of sony MDR-4509 before.
but I have a pair of MDR-7509 and there pretty good except for the expenisive price tag.

Oops... 4 ...7 ... They're pretty close together on the keyboard. ;-P My mistake... Yeah, the MDR-7509 sounds great. They're selling online and in stores for $189 at this point.

NatSkanson

Unregistered
10-15-2002, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Spoon
Had a look at the 'two codec options' only appearing when sending to a mp3 device (Windows Media Audio Device), it is because my mp3 device sending code is written in WMA v8, it is only loading the WMA v8 profiles, until MS release the WMA v9 WDM SDK nothing can be done.

I'm guessing you're addressing my questions about whether or not my NEX II, or other portable MP3 players will play v9 WMA files back to their full potential. Right? I might as well try to decipher Mandarin.

"Had a look at the 'two codec options' only appearing when sending to a mp3 device (Windows Media Audio Device).."

Just what did you see sending the mp3s here, and what do the 'codec options' have to do with this process?

"..it is because my mp3 device sending code is written in WMA v8..."

What exactly did you find to be sending WMA v8 code, and where was it sending it?

"..until MS release the WMA v9 WDM SDK nothing can be done."

What's a SDK, and what's it's function?

Thanks,

NatSkanson ... too busy attempting translations to register. :-D

Razgo
10-15-2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Oops... 4 ...7 ... They're pretty close together on the keyboard. ;-P My mistake... Yeah, the MDR-7509 sounds great. They're selling online and in stores for $189 at this point.

NatSkanson

hey thats a good price! I paid AU$399.00 which is approx US$218.00

so looks like there coming down on price now.

Spoon
10-16-2002, 02:50 AM
Putting it a different way - you won't get the WMA v9 options when going to a Nex II until Microsoft release a later Software Development Kit.

Unregistered
10-16-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Spoon
Putting it a different way - you won't get the WMA v9 options when going to a Nex II until Microsoft release a later Software Development Kit.

Okay Spoon... thanks... that's what I was after. I guess Frontier Labs must be aware of this. I guess I can go ahead and start using the v.9 encoder off and on, and maybe at some point down the line, FL might release firmware that will support it.

But how about software decoders? I imagine there is software out there at this point that can properly decode and play v.9 files. MS must have released a free v.9 decoder for developers to include in MP3 player software, yes?

NatSkanson

Unregistered
10-16-2002, 04:40 PM
Just found what was making some wma v9 files dond work in my nomad jukebox!

If they are encoded at 64 kbps, 44 kHz stereo they work perfectly

but if they are encoded at 64 kbps, 48 kHz stereo they just don't work in the nomad jukebox!

Its a metter of khz - I don't know the reason of this - cuz I can record files in wav 48 khz on it.. mabe this is a bug in the wma file or in the player!

Thanks and sorry again for my poor english!

William

Unregistered
10-16-2002, 06:51 PM
Hi

I was thinking about installing the WMA v9 Codec Beta 3 but I wwould like to know if it would be possible after installing to eventually go back to the WMA v8 codec?

Thanks for your oustanding work, i REALLY mean it!

Sincerly

david

Spoon
10-17-2002, 02:55 AM
I am unsure if it can be uninstalled, Microsoft mention system restore for the WMP 9 beta, it could be the same for the codecs.

Spoon
10-18-2002, 11:42 AM
Yes there is a free decoder, dBpowerAMP uses it. For some reason MS split off the portable deivce support and they have yet to update that to wma9.



This BETA IS NOW CLOSED - it has gone to release.