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Baloe
10-21-2005, 05:48 PM
Hi,

I want to burn 90 min cdr's, it still needs a overburn. The dbpowerwriter can't overburn or i can't find a way to change a configuration.
Is it possible to give the writer a order to overburn?

Baloe

xoas
10-21-2005, 07:14 PM
With dBpowerAMP CD Writer (dCW), you can burn a 90 minute cdr. You have to set this up in advance of loading your files for burning.
Open dCW, click on the icon that reads "New CD". In the window that appears, select the button that reads "Create New CD". Check the button that says Standard Audio CD and set the minutes for 90. Then click on Create CD, in the next window click on OK and you should be back at the main dCW window and you should see Standard Audio CD 90 minutes displayed as your project type.
I do believe that your cdr media need to support this length as dCW does not have the capacity to write an overburn to the best of my knowledge. You can always try and if you do try, let us know how it works out.

Best wishes,
Bill

LtData
10-21-2005, 08:11 PM
Do note that overburning has a chance to damage both the medium and the burner. Use this with caution!

Baloe
10-23-2005, 03:07 PM
Hi, thanks for reply

I have used nero to burn a 90min. cdr with overburn and it was ok. So it is possible to overburn a 90 min cdr.
But with nero you can change your configuration and have a overburn option.
I think thats the problem with the dBpowerAMP CD Writer, it doesn't have that option.

Baloe

LtData
10-23-2005, 07:40 PM
Did you try xoas's instructions above?

And I put that warning in there because some burners CAN'T burn 90 minute CDs. Since you have done this before, you can apparently burn 90 minute CDs just fine. Others, however may only be able to burn 80, 84, or mabye even 95 minute CDs.

xoas
10-24-2005, 05:26 AM
What we don't know is whether dCW can burn 90 minutes of cd onto a 800 mb cdr.
I mention this because dCW also has an option for recording an 800 mb mp3/wma disc and it does occur to me that having an 800 mb cdr disc might be required to burn to burn 90 minutes of cd on a single disc.
Nero and some other programs do feature an overburn feature although I am a little surprised that it allows a full 10 minutes of extra recording. I kind of assume that this feature is a feature of the burner program (in which case I would not necessarily assume that dCW can overburn 90 minutes of cd audio onto a 700 mb/80 minute cdr) or whether this is built into a driver for the burner drive (in which case it seems likelier that dCW might be able to do the overburn).
Perhaps Spoon would happen to have some more definite insight into this.

Best wishes,
Bill

ChristinaS
10-24-2005, 02:01 PM
Normal uncompressed 16-bit 2-channel stereo 44.1KHz wav occupies 10MB for 1 minute. An audio cd track is suposed to be this kind of wav is my understanding, plus a little extra space for the track pointers.
Therefore 90 minutes would require a full 900MB medium. How then would an 800MB cd be able to hold that?

xoas
10-24-2005, 04:23 PM
Christina-
I believe your estimate of 10 mb/minute of track time on cd is a bit of an overestimate which would also explain why you are supposed to be able to get pretty much 80 minutes of playing time in cd format on a 700 mb cdr (which works out to 8.75 mb/minute as opposed to 8.89 mb/minute to get 90 minutes onto 800 mb).

Best wishes,
Bill

ChristinaS
10-24-2005, 04:37 PM
Well I have a test file I keep around all the time. It's a 59 second song, which occupies 10187KB - which works out 10359.66KB for a full 60 seconds. That's in fact 10.11MB but let's say that I have little round off errors and my 59 seconds were maybe 59.5 seconds, etc.

In fact the size on my hard disk is is stated as 9.94 MB (10,432,512 bytes) fro 59 seconds, which works out to 10609334.22 for 60 seconds which is 10.12MB for 1 minute.

Still 10MB is pretty much what it is, give or take a few bytes or a couple of K bytes arising from various round-off errors.

Probably 800MB for a cd is not stated accurately. It's probably a higher number, but not normally accessible except when you can actually overburn, and that would explain the apparently inconsistent calculations.

LtData
10-24-2005, 04:53 PM
Also, burning the CD as data requires the need of data correction, audio does not.

Baloe
10-24-2005, 05:00 PM
Hi,

My mistake. I just call it a 90 min cdr, of course it can be better called 800mb cdr. I just tried to burn again. I burned 846mb on a 90 min cdr, a total time of 83:48.20, but again with nero.
I did the same with dBpowerAMP CD Writer, i coudn't close it. Then i tried to burn a music-cd of 799mb with a total playtime of 79:07.37, this worked with no problem.
So, it is possible to burn a 800mb with dBpowerAMP CD Writer but it isn't possible to overburn.


:thumbup: Baloe

xoas
10-24-2005, 05:12 PM
Thanks for reporting your results.

Best wishes,
Bill

xoas
10-24-2005, 05:35 PM
Christina-
Partial apologies are in order on my part. Looking at some wave tracks and at some cd tracks I find that (with one exception) wave and cd tracks (all from a single cd) do appear to regularly require somewhat in excess of 10 mb/minute. I was clearly wrong in my assertion that 10 mb/minute was an overestimate.
However, I would point out that with dCW and most other burners you can burn very close to or somewhat more than 80 minutes of cd audio onto a 700 mb cdr.

Best wishes,
Bill

ChristinaS
10-24-2005, 06:13 PM
Bill, I'm not doubting what you can burn in actual fact. I've never attempted to burn more than what I'm told by the indicator that the cd can hold - and usually much less than that anyway.

Files usually are written out in buffers that will be a multiple of whatever block size is being used in formatting the disk. Probably so many Kbytes. The more small files you have, the less total space you can use, due to waste involved. For audio tracks I suspect the gaps add a bit to the space requirement as well. Not the duration of the gap necessarily, but just the presence of a gap - it has to at least have an indicator that the track has ended and where the next one might be. And it will have to start on a block boundary.

xoas
10-24-2005, 07:48 PM
Well, let me eat my proverbial hat.
I've looked at some cd's I've burned and even though they have a playing times of over 78 minutes all consistently show cda file properties of around 10.11 mb per minute of track time. This works out to about 790 mb of file size for a "700 mb disc".

When a cdr is advertised as being 80 minutes/700 mb it technically means the disc is capable of holding 80 minutes of cd audio or 700 mb of data. The actual disc size then is larger than the data storage capability whereas I had made the mistaken assumption that the data capacity represented the true size of the disc.

Still, it would follow that a 90 minute/800 mb disc would likewise actually have a substantially larger capacity than 800 mb which answer Christina's query about this in post *7 of this thread.

Best wishes,
Bill

ChristinaS
10-24-2005, 08:26 PM
No, don't eat your hat :D

I think I have learned something though: burning wav files to a cd as data files can end up taking more space than the same wav files as audio cd tracks.

I'm not about to test this actually, but an interesting piece of trivia nevertheless.

LtData
10-24-2005, 08:55 PM
As I said, that is because the data files have error correction that is burned with them, making them take up more space. At least, that's how I heard it.

Baloe
10-25-2005, 09:37 AM
I burned 2 cdr's. The first one a audiocd with 10 tracks, the second a data cdr with 10 wav files. Both with the same playtime in total.
The first one is 383 MB the second did take 388,5 MB.

Baloe

milfzor
11-15-2005, 01:50 PM
okay, in reguard to all the confusion with wav files...yes they are in fact larger on the harddrive than they are once they are burned to a disc....there's a few reasonings for this.....first off, when you burn the wav's to a disc, they are in fact converted to audio tracks as opposed to plain wav files...another reason, like what was stated earlier is the data correction as opposed to audio where there is no correction....and last is wav has a pretty big file overhead if i remember correctly, whereas audio tracks do not, because they are not really files per say once they are on the disc, but tracks on the disc....hope that clears stuff up........wav is as close as you can get to an audio track on a computer......but its not quite the same.

ChristinaS
11-15-2005, 08:18 PM
We weren't referring the the .cda files that appear on a track listing. Those obviously are not the actual audio files, they are pointers to the actual audio data elsewhere on the medium.

They would add a little overhead, but the rest must come from error correction or lack thereof in the audio data portion itself.

The audio data on an aaaudio cd is still the same wav data - minus error correction as has been mentioned. And possibly not affected at the track level by data block size which has to be a multiple of so many k bytes, whetver the system specifies.