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BestRip
06-23-2002, 04:00 PM
Hi,

I have decided this is the program to run with, it's great!!!
I have a serious question though, is the freedb ofline or what can possibly be the reason for 3 of the Beatles biggest albums:
1 (No.1, all the hit singles), Abbey Road and the White album all pass as unrecognized???
The other day I checked out a High Fidelity Magazine reference CD and it checked out correctly. This is really strange I think.
Is there a good reason or do I have to expect to enter most of my albums manually? All the albums I didn't get a response for were available on Gracenote cddb.com so I've been copying/pasting, but now that's REALLY boaring.

Spoon
06-24-2002, 01:31 AM
Try going to the freedb.org home page and do a manual search for these discs, that will tell you if they are in the data base.

BestRip
06-24-2002, 01:49 PM
Thank you, I found the database and lots of the albums I was missing. Is there a way to retrieve this info that I found or is it copy/paste line by line that applies?
Funny thing that there are such slight differences that cause the failure of recognition. (I can assure you that I'm not bitching about home brewed CD's, but originals that don't seem to match -like 1 second miss-match). How about if the db submitted the nerest match with a warning of "no exact match found"?

Spoon
06-24-2002, 04:19 PM
1 Second miss-match? very odd, it could be that the CD is slightly different in different parts of the world, or even one of those annoying attempts to Copy protect CDs.

Anyhow you get what you put into freedb, if you value it then submit the few discs that do not appear already, the world will be a much better place ;)

BestRip
06-24-2002, 04:53 PM
I understand from your avoiding the question that the use of the database is as I suggested (copy/paste), or?
Having a what I think is a great album by Leonard Cohen/ Ten New Songs, I thought it just have to be in the database but the response was negative, so I looked it up as you suggested and there it was, all in all 14 different entries of the album (probably 2 different issues - hard to tell)!:headbang:
I suggest that you have a look at this example, if you have a moment, it's really wild. I'm saying this because I'm afraid it will turn rather useless if not handled. I understand it's not your database but since your absolutely excelent program somewhat depends upon it, it could be of some concern.

I'm using the Monkeys non-destructive compression in normal mode and DSP'ing some low volume CD's with a fantastic result, its really great.

Thank you for all your efforts making this product turn out so well!!! :smile2:

Razgo
06-24-2002, 06:52 PM
I guess the only way Spoon can test it, is to have the same album that you have that is not retrieving the info from the data base.

but what your saying is the album you have is "exactly" the same album in the freedb.org data base you found by doing a manual search?

you could try and submit your album to the data base and then see if it will retrieve what you submitted.

Razgo
06-24-2002, 07:09 PM
I understand from your avoiding the question that the use of the database is as I suggested (copy/paste), or?

I'm not so sure Spoon was avoiding the question but rather the question is a your choice on how you enter album names is yours.

BestRip
06-25-2002, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Razgo
I guess the only way Spoon can test it, is to have the same album that you have that is not retrieving the info from the data base.

but what your saying is the album you have is "exactly" the same album in the freedb.org data base you found by doing a manual search?

you could try and submit your album to the data base and then see if it will retrieve what you submitted.

What I mean is that there are some 14 -15 different entries on that particular album but mainly only 2 maybe 3 different official issues of them.
It is easy to see what I mean by just browsing through the db contents of "Leonard Cohen / Ten New Songs" at freedb.org. Of course there may be a few different pressings of the CD but I'm surpriced that they would have these 1 - 2 seconds differences on some tracks, unless most are "home maid"?

I did try a second time with a few of my own entries and they have all responded with track listings the second time around.

What do you think about the idea of a response from the db that says something like "No exact match found, please verify this track listing" for close but not exact matching. I don't know what it would take to make the freedb respond like this but I'm guessing it could reduce the amount of extra entries and resulting maintenace?

Spoon
06-25-2002, 01:34 AM
Feedb cannot work like that, your searches are working from the assumption that the artist name is known already. Freedb will only accept searching on times that match exactly (times are 1/75 of a second in accuracy).

Razgo
06-25-2002, 01:51 AM
ok, I see what you mean. Spoon may have to clarify further how DMC looks at the data base.

but yes i see what you mean. if the album in the data base is the same as your album at home but one of the tracks on the data base is listed at say 2 sec more then I guess a match won't be found.

so maybe someone submitted the album incorrectly in the first place or as you say it may have been a home made copy that wasn't done correctly.

thats why i suggested for you to submit your album to the data base and see if it would retrieved it correctly. but i don't know what happens if the same album is already in the data base?

as far as an error message like "No exact match found, please verify this track listing" as you suggested, there is already an error message that pops up like this.

http://razgo.com/pics/data.png

but to configure it further to know why the data base could not find it might be a nightmare to code/configure.

BestRip
06-25-2002, 02:07 AM
Is it the total time or the time of each track and it's combination that is searched for matching?

The 1/75 of a second must be a programmed parameter so it could be changed I guess - don't know to what effect. I'm just thinking of how it could be improved for use and safeguarded.

I used the Windows Media Player and it's database before I came across dBpowerAMP (looking for more facilities and you have plenty of them!), but the database functions were slightly more forgiving and "user friendly" I think.
Hoping for better use of the freedb, like if I manually find the correct album that I could just fetch that track list to my current dMC Audio CD Input.:smile2:

Spoon
06-25-2002, 11:45 AM
It is some algorithm that adds all the track offsets on the CD.

totalXSive
06-25-2002, 01:08 PM
I find quite a few of my CDs do have FreeDB entries, and if they don't, I submit them - I'm in the process of re-ripping a few of my better CDs into Ogg Vorbis, and those that I've submitted are now coming up.

Sites like MusicMoz (http://musicmoz.org) also use FreeDB for importing track data, if you're interested.

BestRip
06-25-2002, 01:50 PM
Thank you Neil,

The problem is not that the CD's cannot be found in the freedb, but rather that there are too many entries and I'm starting to suspect most of them are "home brews".

Just now I was ripping Phil Collins/No Jacket Required and the standard response dialogue Razgo showed erlier in this thread came up (as usual). :headbang: So I took a look at freedb.org again and there are 14 entries on this album.:confused: They all really must have had small differences in them or they would not have been registred as new entries in the database. I'm almost sure there are not this many different CD pressings made. Since I am TOTALLY certain that my copy is NOT a home made one I assume that most or all of the other entries are.
This seems to occur mainly on some very popular albums, perhaps also the most copied ones?:rolleyes:

Is there a way to attach the dbpowerAmp Music Converter to MusicMoz or any other database for that matter?

I just love these Smilies
:happy:

totalXSive
06-25-2002, 02:10 PM
Um, probably, but FreeDB is by far the best system.

I'm assuming that some of the really popular albums that have been released all over the world may have slight differences. In the UK, for example, a lot of releases come with bonus tracks or CD-ROM components to deter people from buying (supposedly) cheaper imports from mainland Europe.

MODatic
06-25-2002, 04:49 PM
or CD-ROM components to deter people from buying (supposedly) cheaper imports from mainland Europe.

Don't you mean copy protection :D
(Something I'm proud Australia is behind in :rolleyes: )

I haven't experienced any problems with FreeDB through DMC at all, most of my albums are very popular ones and are originals and they always appear. Since FreeDB runs on track lengths to determine which CD it is, do you think it could be possible that your CD drive may not be possibly registering the correct values or ones that are slightly off? Have you tried another drive?

BestRip
06-25-2002, 05:23 PM
I have checked and cross referenced a particular album: CÚline Dion / S'il suffisait D'aimer.

I checked the time for each track from my PC, my CD player, the freedb and the album cover. The least difference is between my PC and my CD player where tracks 4, 6, 7 and10 differ 1 second each in the time displayed. The album cover has a difference of 1 - 2 seconds relative to the PC figures, and the freedb up to 3 seconds.

All I'm getting at is that the 1/75 of a second seems a bit narrow when looking at it in this perspective.

I started re-ripping my CD's because I wanted them in a non-destructive format (I had just completed them in .wma format)
I now have completed about 40 of them into Monkeys Audio format but almost 20 of these has not been recognized by the freedb and still the same albums were there to be found easily,
:vmad: , manually!!!

Thank you all for your assistance.
:smile2:

Razgo
06-25-2002, 05:44 PM
have you checked out the freedb forums as well?

here is a quote
A lot of programs calculate an incorrect discid for CD Extra CDs. What program have you been trying to use?
Additionally it is possible, that you have a different pressing of the CD with track offsets, which are different to the ones of the version, which is already in the freedb. If the differences are too big, it is possible, that the fuzzy search cannot catch the correct entry.

the forum is here: http://www.freedb.org/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi

Razgo
06-25-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by BestRip

Just now I was ripping Phil Collins/No Jacket Required and the standard response dialogue Razgo showed erlier in this thread came up (as usual). :headbang:

the reason for any standard response is due to typical standard questions that don't come with a check list of what you have tried/tested to narrow the problem down.

so if we say try this or that, it's because we don't know if you have tried these things first to help narrow things down.

anyhow it appears there is no fault or bad coding in the DMC component that retrieves the info from freedb data base.

the only other thing might be to put a suggestion in the "wish list" forum for DMC cd audio input.

although it does appear that the differences in the pressed cd that was submitted is the cause in this case. in which case DMC can't do much about that.

BestRip
06-26-2002, 04:18 AM
It couldn't be that I'm running the Release 9 Beta 4 version? (Otherwise running well I think). Needed badly:smile: the sorting function in it.

Spoon
06-26-2002, 12:02 PM
No, the betas are fine so far - full release T-6 days!

BestRip
06-26-2002, 05:07 PM
"Fine"? you are far too modest...

I just started to have a look through the player or rather "My Music Collection" and found the preferences and the facilities there.
WOW,:supersmil WOW,:supersmil WOW:supersmil!!!

All I've ever wanted and more and that only after a few minutes of glansing through it and trying out some sorting and stuff. I don't have words for it, you've really made my day, THANK YOU FOR THIS PROGRAM!
:happy:

BestRip
06-28-2002, 05:16 PM
Taking a chance none of you will ever talk to me again...:eek:
I found this code in the freedb.org developers documentation:

Quoting a small part:

" code:
200 Found exact match
211 Found inexact matches, list follows (until terminating marker)
202 No match found
403 Database entry is corrupt
409 No handshake
"

Also when trying to get the freedb feedback on the album Madonna / Music I had no luck and searched the database manually and found some 50+ entries. Out of those none is so close to my album that no exact match is found??? What's going on?
So, I looked up another rip that also uses the freedb to see if it could identify my album or not. Well, it could not and I just don't understand it, but here was a cute thing I had been looking for, and now I'm just thinking how fantastic that would be to have implemented into the dMC program.
:happy:

Razgo
06-28-2002, 05:21 PM
well you have been unlucky. I don't have a Madonna album to test out. but yes that is surprising that only a few cd's in your collection will work with freedb.

BestRip
06-28-2002, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by BestRip
but here was a cute thing I had been looking for
:happy: [/B]

Ooops the fileformat was wrong on the image. Hope it comes up now.

BestRip
06-28-2002, 05:41 PM
I was trying to post an image but no luck. Is there a specific procedure? :yawn:
Anyway I can decribe it instead:
A dialouge asking to choose between (in this case 3) close matches to the album.

It would for me be very useful, and I guess from the number of entries on this album a lot of others to, since there are over 50 different entries of it.
But seriously, I can't possibly be the only one with this problem, am I? :headbang:

I'm gonna have to check this out with my record dealer, there's somethi'n fishy here...
:confused: :happy: :blush:

BestRip
06-28-2002, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by BestRip

So, I looked up another rip that also uses the freedb to see if it could identify my album or not. Well, it could not ...


Oops again, I was a bit hasty there and didn't read the text, it said "Multiple matches".
So it actually could identify the album and with more than one match. So I've tested some more of the albums I didn't have any luck with before, and they all seem to give the "Multiple matches" response. I'm so relieved, now it makes sense.
:happy:

Razgo
06-28-2002, 07:45 PM
to display an image you just need to upload the image to your home page space(if you have one) and then click on the IMG tag when replying to a post and type the URL to where the image is.

Spoon
06-29-2002, 02:42 AM
It is just a limitation of freedb (was CDDB) - it has only 9 categories, and quite a few people on badly written software were allowed to submit the same ablum to all different categories.

Spoon
06-29-2002, 11:31 AM
Thanks to BestRip he got me to look into it and it was a bug, introduced either in Release 8 or the Release 9 beta.

BestRip
06-29-2002, 12:00 PM
Thank you, Spoon!

...and thanks for a great program.
I really love it.

:supersmil :supersmil :supersmil

totalXSive
06-29-2002, 01:19 PM
So FreeDB will be more reliable now? Great! :D