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Arbie
12-28-2014, 11:13 AM
EDIT: Nevermind, I think I just found it. The solution is to put "\[album]" in the "Naming" field instead of in the "Path" field. I thought Naming was for track names only. This is a little confusing.

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I have searched the FAQ and the forum in general but didn't yet find an answer to a very simple question.

I want to rip a sequence of CDs. Each should go into a subfolder named for the "Album" field.

In the CD grabber, I see where to set a base "Path" (in my case G:\__RIPS). However I can't find anything that will let me set the subfolder in this path to be the "Album" name. So for every album I rip I have to type the Album name in the tagging bar up top and again in the Path box at lower left.

I must be missing something, as usual. Any help appreciated.

BrodyBoy
12-29-2014, 02:37 PM
EDIT: Nevermind, I think I just found it. The solution is to put "\[album]" in the "Naming" field instead of in the "Path" field. I thought Naming was for track names only. This is a little confusing.

Glad you got it figured out. If it's a little confusing discerning what's "path" and what's "naming," the best way to think about it is that "PATH" is simply the destination location common to all your rips. Anything that's a variable based on the files themselves (including folder organization by whatever data you choose) is part of the naming string. In short...

Path = the location common to all rips
Naming = the file-specific information variables

Arbie
12-30-2014, 07:31 PM
Thank you, BrodyBoy.

I have another naming problem that I'm sure has a simple answer. Using Secure Rip, I want the output log to go in the same folder as the tracks I'm ripping. I'd like to be able to specify either the Disk * or the Album text in the title. However, strings like "[disc].txt" and "[Album].txt" don't work... there is no error message but no log file is saved. What syntax should I be using?

garym
12-31-2014, 06:36 AM
Thank you, BrodyBoy.

I have another naming problem that I'm sure has a simple answer. Using Secure Rip, I want the output log to go in the same folder as the tracks I'm ripping. I'd like to be able to specify either the Disk * or the Album text in the title. However, strings like "[disc].txt" and "[Album].txt" don't work... there is no error message but no log file is saved. What syntax should I be using?

hmmm. I don't recall having to do any settings and just used the default, but my ripping log automatically saves within the album subdirectory with the filename "artist-albumname.txt" (or just "albumname for compiliations) with actual artist and album names used for specific CDs. This is the string I show in the log file name space after ticking "write to log":


[rippedtopath]\[IFVALUE]album artist,[album artist],[IFCOMP]Various Artists[][IF!COMP][artist][][] - [album].txt

I also tick the "add to information log" and also select REPORT CONTENTS as "complete".

EDIT: I wonder if this relates to your other post where you are stripping out all tag info. Maybe it doesn't exist so the writing of the log fails??? p.s. You obviously have a ripping/management strategy that doesn't include metadata tags, but I really can't understand why you don't allow dbpa to at least add basic tags (artist, album, track number, track name). You can choose in dbpa which tags you want saved so you don't save all the other tags you don't want. You don't have to use these tags if you manage things by folder/filename, but it is useful to have them there for other reasons.

Arbie
12-31-2014, 02:02 PM
Thank you, garym.

The information on the default log tokens will be very helpful - looks like I erased mine without saving it.

I don't want tags because they are too hard to maintain. I manage my music collection by folder names and track names only. These I can easily alter, sort, de-duplicate, move around etc using only Windows Explorer. Extra info (eg. performance details) reside in a single text file in the album folder, along with any .jpgs. Unless I constantly re-tag files, which is impractical with a collection this size, the tags fall behind and are then annoying. Stale tags become an actual problem when I want to see if two music files are identical via CRC.

By coincidence I ran across a another recent post on this forum saying about the same thing.

When I make MP3s from my FLACs for a specific reason, I tag them just enough to satisfy my portable players which seem fixated on tags.

garym
12-31-2014, 02:17 PM
Thank you, garym.

The information on the default log tokens will be very helpful - looks like I erased mine without saving it.

I don't want tags because they are too hard to maintain. I manage my music collection by folder names and track names only. These I can easily alter, sort, de-duplicate, move around etc using only Windows Explorer. Extra info (eg. performance details) reside in a single text file in the album folder, along with any .jpgs. Unless I constantly re-tag files, which is impractical with a collection this size, the tags fall behind and are then annoying. Stale tags become an actual problem when I want to see if two music files are identical via CRC.

By coincidence I ran across a another recent post on this forum saying about the same thing.

When I make MP3s from my FLACs for a specific reason, I tag them just enough to satisfy my portable players which seem fixated on tags.

Understand. Whatever works best for the individual is the method one should use! Personally, I currently have about 6,500 albums (~87,000 tracks) that I manage with both tags and directory/filenames. I like the tags for use in my players (squeezebox network music players and LMS music server, foobar2000 on the PC, and a mirror library of mp3 files I use in iThings). But I also like the subdirectory/filenames to be informative when I'm looking at my music library via a file browser.

I find that with dbpa and mp3tag (it handles flac too) I can do just about anything. Heck, I could modify a bunch of filenames and use mp3tag to batch convert tags to match filenames (or modify tag info and use mp3tag to batch convert the directory/filenames to match the tags). All with a few mouse clicks (and letting run for a day or two!).

Arbie
12-31-2014, 03:48 PM
All with a few mouse clicks (and letting run for a day or two!).

Now... imagine a collection ten times as big ;-). Just can't keep up with tags too!

garym
12-31-2014, 03:53 PM
Now... imagine a collection ten times as big ;-). Just can't keep up with tags too!

;)

mville
12-31-2014, 10:19 PM
Extra info (eg. performance details) reside in a single text file in the album folder, along with any .jpgs. Unless I constantly re-tag files, which is impractical with a collection this size, the tags fall behind and are then annoying. Stale tags become an actual problem when I want to see if two music files are identical via CRC.

Can you tell me the difference/implications when storing the information in a single text file and storing the information as tags and why tagging is impractical compared to maintaining a single text file?

Also, what do you mean when you say tags fall behind and become stale. I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

BrodyBoy
01-01-2015, 03:07 AM
I share your curiosity and confusion, mville.....what the heck is a stale tag?

To the OP: While you seem to prefer this method now, do keep in mind going forward that virtually all digital music players rely on metadata to index and navigate a music library. How the files look and get organized in Windows is practically irrelevant to playback devices. Stripped files may work for a digital archive (say, for backup purposes), but lack of metadata makes them virtually unusable to most players.

Arbie
01-01-2015, 06:10 PM
@BrodyBoy - You're right that dedicated portable players can be a problem. Most will do OK with just track names, but they often prefer (will default to) sorting by tags. So when I create a batch of MP3s for portable listening, I usually tag them just to avoid issues.

Other devices that can be used for portable playing (eg Nexus tablet w Android; or Nokia Windows Phone 8 unit) have multiple player apps available, and all that I've tried so far work fine with just folders and track names (no tags).

My favorite PC player is 1x1 aka 1by1, which is built around folders and tracks with no need of tags. It's available for Android too.


@mville - My very simple practice is to have a folder of FLAC tracks:

haydn - symphony 1 - dorati 1975
01 - Symphony 1 mvt 1.flac
02 - Symphony 1 mvt 2.flac
03 - Symphony 1 mvt 3.flac
04 - Symphony 1 mvt 4.flac
info.txt
front.jpg
back.jpg


All artist and performance info is in the "info.txt" file. I can freely search and edit this with many tools. Any amount of text can easily be managed, and many of these files are 50KB-100KB of material I've researched including comparative reviews etc. I may at any time add or subtract many paragraphs of info. No way that's all going in tags, so I need the text file anyway - just like I need the folder name and track names anyway.

Now, precisely because all important info is in the stuff I must have anyway, I don't need any of it in tags.


Tags get "stale" when they no longer reflect what is in my folder and track names. I might realize that this recording was actually done in 1985 and make that correction:

haydn - symphony 1 - dorati 1985

Suddenly, if I were maintaining tags in the FLACs, they are now inconsistent with my latest info ie "stale". I'd have to run some tagger program to fix this. A major side-effect of that is that when I later refresh my backup of this music, my synchronization program will detect that the new files differ from the old (because of the tag changes) and will want to copy them to the backup. That's completely unnecessary, very time-consuming, and adds some risk. Even worse, I won't generally know if the FLAC differences detected are because of long-forgotten tag updates or are due to a real content difference or even a hardware problem! I can't imagine creating such archive integrity issues for myself.


These are just made-up examples but my point is that with a very big collection, maintaining two sets of IDs (one of them relatively hidden) is far too much work. For me it is impossible. Therefore, rather than have tags of unknown status, I prefer to have none.

BrodyBoy
01-04-2015, 02:42 PM
Okay, so "stale tags" are just inaccurate tags. Accurate information never goes "stale," whether it's in a tag, text file, or anywhere else.

Honestly, Arbie, I think there are much easier solutions to the kinds of issues you describe. For example, no program is required to fix an inaccurate tag in an album folder...takes about 4-5 clicks in Windows Explorer (or just getting it right in the first place;)), archiving/backup can easily be set to replace changed files, not duplicate them, and no need to tag when making subsets or alternate versions (mp3s, etc) if the basic tags are already there. But you seem happy with your approach and that's what matters. New users often want to know what the "standard" or "right" way is to organize a digital music library when, in fact, there's no such thing. What makes sense to each user and works best with their equipment is the right solution for them. :)

schmidj
01-04-2015, 06:49 PM
I want to add to BrodyBoy's comment: It is worth your time to think out your file naming and tagging protocols very carefully before proceeding with any volume of ripping. Otherwise, you will end up doing it all twice, or even more times, as you discover the route you have taken is not compatible with some new gear you purchase. I speak from experience, been there, done that...

Most new players do not use file names to select what to play, they develop databases of tag information. All DLNA devices are meant to work from tags. If the music is tagged wrong (or not tagged at all), the player won't locate it. I now often spend more time correcting or adding correct tags (and adding artwork) than I actually spend ripping. Much of the data in the online databases is riddled with errors, some serious, some trivial. Some of the wrong data has been added by volunteer users like you and I; unfortunately much of it appears to be careless entry on the part of record companies or download distributors. Removing all tags from new rips would seem to me to be a path to quick obsolescence. (although you can use a program like PerfectTunes to add much of it back in).

The filename and directory name is really important mainly for you to be able to locate the directory and/or file to be able to manually edit the directory and for m3p playlists to have a file to reference. It is also important to set your filenaming scheme to avoid files getting overwritten if there are duplicate track names, and if you want the tracks from multi-disc CD's in different folders, to account for that in the filenaming scheme. Finally, various storage devices and operating systems have various length restrictions on filenames. It is easy to exceed them, particularly on classical material and on medley cuts if you list the songs in the medley. This only applies to the filenames, not the tags.

BrodyBoy
01-04-2015, 08:00 PM
Otherwise, you will end up doing it all twice, or even more times, as you discover the route you have taken is not compatible with some new gear you purchase. I speak from experience, been there, done that...
Haha...I learned the hard way, too! For me, future-proofing has become a top priority in my tagging scheme. No matter how much I like my gear now, I know there's a very good chance I'll be playing my music on something else a few years down the line, and something else a few years after that.


I now often spend more time correcting or adding correct tags (and adding artwork) than I actually spend ripping.
Oh, definitely. Ripping is the easy part. That's another thing I learned the hard way...if I take the time up front to gather all the information...accurate information....it saves a ton of time and headaches down the line.

mville
01-05-2015, 09:10 PM
All artist and performance info is in the "info.txt" file. I can freely search and edit this with many tools. Any amount of text can easily be managed, and many of these files are 50KB-100KB of material I've researched including comparative reviews etc. I may at any time add or subtract many paragraphs of info. No way that's all going in tags, so I need the text file anyway - just like I need the folder name and track names anyway.

Now, precisely because all important info is in the stuff I must have anyway, I don't need any of it in tags.

Tags get "stale" when they no longer reflect what is in my folder and track names. I might realize that this recording was actually done in 1985 and make that correction

Good luck with this, however, I advise you to re-consider your approach as I agree with what has been said here in the previous posts.