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djFlipTrippy
11-23-2003, 07:32 AM
Just curious as to how CD Writer handles gapping. Some CD's I have are single tracks and sound fine after buning them. I also have some continuous mix CD's I'd like to burn. Haven't done them yet. Wanted to ask here how the software would handle this. I notice there is no option to check for 2-second gaps like there is on every other burning program I use (all of which have given me a lifetime supply of frisbees/coasters.) I also have a slight "complaint" about your CD Writer. I've burnt 7 CD's using it to date, and have not been blessed with a single coaster, unfortunately lowering my stress-level.

Be Groovy,

FLIP :komisch7:

Spoon
11-23-2003, 09:02 AM
dCW cannot write gapless CDs, I really want to add it - but I am reliant on a 3rd party :(

JahSun
12-08-2003, 09:20 AM
dCW cannot write gapless CDs, I really want to add it - but I am reliant on a 3rd party :(
Gapless CD writing is essential. That is why I use Nero for most burning. (Except I use DCW for Ogg Vorbis CD's) Perhaps you could use the Nero code?
That Reminds me... Is it possible to get DCW to burn APE CD's? Maybe we could have an option to burn playable CD's of any of the formats supported by DMC...

J

Spoon
12-08-2003, 06:41 PM
Yes - if you create a new Audio CD that is Ogg Vorbis.

JahSun
12-14-2003, 02:26 PM
I know you can write Ogg Vorbis CD's, but can you write APE, FLAC, MPC CD's (and all the rest)? I don't mean simply burning the files onto a CD-Rom, but a dedicated, playable, self booting CD. (Like your typical MP3 CD)

Spoon
12-14-2003, 04:44 PM
Yes, if you mean play them on the PC (all those formats), a new version of dCW will allow bootable CDs to play the tracks.

zevele1
12-15-2003, 06:55 PM
Yes, if you mean play them on the PC (all those formats), a new version of dCW will allow bootable CDs to play the tracks.


JahSun

It is something i'am thinking about:

Back-up all my cds in an lossless format.
But this don't make sens using cd.
You need to burn it on DVD disc.

bobclevenger
01-09-2004, 04:10 AM
dCW cannot write gapless CDs, I really want to add it - but I am reliant on a 3rd party :(
This is very important to any audio CCD burning software. What would it take to get this feature added? I assume it would be money to the third party. yes?

BTW, your software is excellent!

Razgo
01-09-2004, 05:13 AM
forgive my ignorance here but what is the importance of the gap? and how does it effect the end playing/listening result?

bobclevenger
01-09-2004, 06:54 AM
forgive my ignorance here but what is the importance of the gap? and how does it effect the end playing/listening result?
What is important is to be able to eliminate the gap entirely. When burning a live concert (say a Dead show) the separate tracks should flow from one to another without any gaps. If you just burn as one big track, you won't be able to go to a particular song because there is no way to index it in an unbroken file. So you need to be able to separate the songs into tracks, write CD-text info (or mp3 tags, etc.) for each track and them burn the CD without gaps.

Spoon
01-09-2004, 02:31 PM
Said 3rd party does not want to do it, I have offered :(

Razgo
01-09-2004, 07:00 PM
so it works the same as Spoon's "rip as one" feature? except the other way around.

and someone owns the technology needed for it to be put in dcw?

bobclevenger
01-09-2004, 08:02 PM
Said 3rd party does not want to do it, I have offered :(
Bummer:(
How about an option of burning to an ISO image which could be saved to disc and then burned to CDR with Nero or something else which will burn in Disc at Once mode? Not so convenient or fast, but it would allow use of dCW to arrange the directory and file structure in one step, and that of a second application to do the actual disc burning in another.

Come to think of it, a "Burn to File" mode would also be very useful in setting up dCW since one could try different settings without wasting a CDR for each try -- I'm surrounded by dead CDRs at the moment. :(

Razgo
01-09-2004, 08:07 PM
How about an option of burning to an ISO image which could be saved to disc and then burned to disc
this would be no different than burning your mp3's to disk and then using "rip as one" feature in dmc cd audio input and then burn that one file to disk, thus acheiving the gap? of course a cdrw would save on coasters/space too when doing this.

bobclevenger
01-09-2004, 08:34 PM
this would be no different than burning your mp3's to disk and then using "rip as one" feature in dmc cd audio input and then burn that one file to disk, thus acheiving the gap? of course a cdrw would save on coasters/space too when doing this.
A very interesting workaround! Thanks for the idea.

Actually, I don't keep any music in mp3 form except on discs to use in my car. I keep my archives in lossless form (shn at the moment, but I'm thinking of going to flac). So I convert my shn's to mp3's, edit each tag, and then burn to disc (either mp3 or cda). That's why I'm thinking of changing to flac (flac supports tags) because then I can burn my CDRs directly from my flac files.

I'm quite unusual for someone on this board in that I don't use my computer as a music player -- I use my stereo system for that (yeah, I know -- SO old-fashioned!) and I store my music archives on CDRs (I may switch to DVDs) and not on my computer. I only have the music on which I am currently working on my hard drive(s) at any one time. So playlists and such are just extras that are not used by me.
Anyway, I have digressed enough. Thanks again for the idea!

Razgo
01-09-2004, 09:40 PM
no worries. it is a least a solution for now.

bobclevenger
01-10-2004, 12:53 AM
this would be no different than burning your mp3's to disk and then using "rip as one" feature in dmc cd audio input and then burn that one file to disk, thus acheiving the gap? of course a cdrw would save on coasters/space too when doing this.

I re-read your suggestion and found one problem with it.
After you do the "rip as one" thing you have only one big file, and when you burn that to CDR you don't have any track data -- just one big track with no ability to display track name (only one tag for the whole thing) and no ability to skip to the next (or previous) track.

Razgo
01-10-2004, 01:05 AM
well i guess that's the part that confuses me. can you give me an example of how this no gap burning works? does it bookmark/index sections?

i guess i am not following.

if it is multiple tracks than why one file that is index as burn with no gap feature , opposed to mutiple files that are indexed? whats the difference?

bobclevenger
01-10-2004, 01:29 AM
well i guess that's the part that confuses me. can you give me an example of how this no gap burning works? does it bookmark/index sections?

i guess i am not following.

if it is multiple tracks than why one file that is index as burn with no gap feature , opposed to mutiple files that are indexed? whats the difference?

Let's see if I can explain it by use of an example.
I have a recording of a (Grateful) Dead concert. It was originally recorded as one large track (either analogue or digital -- doesn't matter). I want to burn the music to CDR (either cda or mp3 -- again, doesn't matter).
My choices are:

1. Burn the existing track (after converting to a digital form if needed) "as is". This will get me a good sounding CD that has the music flowing from one song to the next just as it was played. So far, so good. However it will not allow me to skip from one song to the next, since it is all one track. It also will not allow separate tags (or CD-Text info) for each song.

2. Split the master file into separate files for each song. Then burn all the resulting files to the CDR in the proper order. If the burning software does NOT insert any gaps between tracks ("Disc At Once" mode) the result will sound just like *1 but with the added ability to skip to the next/previous song and contain tag/CD-Text info for each file (song).

3. Just like *2 except that the burner inserts a silent gap (usually 2 Seconds) between each track. When you play the CD you hear a 2 second silence between songs. This is not a problem on songs that are discrete and complete unto themselves, but it is very annoying on a live recording where each song flows into the next without stopping.

Was that any easier to understand?
I'm glad I didn't go into teaching!

Razgo
01-10-2004, 03:12 AM
2. Split the master file into separate files for each song. Then burn all the resulting files to the CDR in the proper order. If the burning software does NOT insert any gaps between tracks ("Disc At Once" mode) the result will sound just like *1 but with the added ability to skip to the next/previous song and contain tag/CD-Text info for each file (song).
so this is the desired result needed?

bobclevenger
01-10-2004, 05:02 AM
so this is the desired result needed?
Exactly.

bobclevenger
01-12-2004, 03:54 AM
I've been thinking on this and doing a little testing.
It's only a problem with cda burning. With mp3 discs the gaps (if any) are a function of the player. I hope this makes things a little clearer.

JahSun
01-24-2004, 11:47 PM
Just Use Nero. You can take the 2 seconds off every track except the 1st. This, of course doesn't matter. From bootlegs of live shows, to DJ mixes and other such audio cd creation, you neeeed gapless cd writing. Period. end of story.

Unregistered
01-25-2004, 03:13 AM
Just Use Nero. You can take the 2 seconds off every track except the 1st. This, of course doesn't matter. From bootlegs of live shows, to DJ mixes and other such audio cd creation, you neeeed gapless cd writing. Period. end of story.
I have been using Nero and Feurio! to burn audio CDs, but I would like to be able to use one application for cda and mp3. Also it would be very handy to be able to use dBpowerAMP CD Writer because with it I can go from flac directly to CD without doing the conversion as a separate step. If it ever comes about it would be a good thing, but as you say, there are ways to do it in the interim.

JahSun
02-01-2004, 08:25 PM
Trust me, I am not a Nero spokesperson, but all the recent versions of Nero can burn direct from FLAC.

Now I would love to see a gapless dCW for all my ape, mpc and other bizzare formats not likely to be supported by Nero any time soon.

swoosh
03-18-2004, 10:54 AM
Trust me, I am not a Nero spokesperson, but all the recent versions of Nero can burn direct from FLAC.

Now I would love to see a gapless dCW for all my ape, mpc and other bizzare formats not likely to be supported by Nero any time soon.



Hi

What I did to work around the gapless issue is to arrange the tracks in a playlist - then play the lot using gapless playback and using a desktop sound recorder (creative recorder) to record the session.

Then I split the tracks up with a WAV (CD-WAV shareware) editor which creates seperate tracks that were labelled and burnt the whole to disc (as one) with dMC thus creating a self-mixed CD with overlaps/fades...Hope this helps. Maybe the process could be automated by some clever person?

swoosh
03-18-2004, 10:56 AM
Hi

What I did to work around the gapless issue is to arrange the tracks in a playlist - then play the lot using gapless playback and using a desktop sound recorder (creative recorder) to record the session.

Then I split the tracks up with a WAV (CD-WAV shareware) editor which creates seperate tracks that were labelled and burnt the whole to disc (as one) with dMC thus creating a self-mixed CD with overlaps/fades...Hope this helps. Maybe the process could be automated by some clever person?


Judging the number of views and replies to this thread this is a clearly desirable missing feature - especially since there are so many gapless mix albums

JahSun
03-19-2004, 01:40 AM
Judging the number of views and replies to this thread this is a clearly desirable missing feature - especially since there are so many gapless mix albums
;) True.

The problem with your above mentioned technique is that it takes forever, and you are making a brand new recording. Thus, you may have issues with levels, peaking, sound quality deterioration etc. &, if you go through all this hassle... you may try and burn your precious compilation only to find that 2 second gaps have still been inserted between your songs. (really annoying to have a space in the middle of a live recording or a crossfade!!!) Compilations of this sort need to be burned in "Disc at Once/96" mode in order to be truly gapless and have CD Text. Burning the thing as a single song doesn't really solve anything, because you lose the ability to skip around the cd, and seperate CD Text for each track. Don't even ask why Philips (the Dutch company that invented the CD & the DVD) made this 2 second .cda problem in the first place. (I'm not sure if they are responsible)

Compared to what you described above, I can compile, crossfade, edit, normalize and burn Flac, Wav, Mp3 & WMA files without altering them in about 10 or 15 minutes in Nero. (4 minutes to burn) Who has time for reinventing the wheel?

swoosh
03-19-2004, 04:32 PM
Hi again


I agree. Just to make it clear though, the resulting recording did have have track seperation (without the 2 sec gap) thus I was able to navigate the cd.

I would not repeat this process unless it was a truly 'special' compilation - using roxio, nero whatever, is less hassle but then I might as well dispense with DB which would be a shame. I don't want to as it's a fantastic application for my purposes in all other respects. I admit to having roxio installed though...

JahSun
03-21-2004, 02:50 AM
I got that you managed to make it work... Congrats. Its just like changing a tire with pliers and a vice grip. I used to do something similar ages ago when CD burning was still only in the realm of professionals, and way before DVD's. I would record songs into a dedicated hard drive recorder, edit, trim etc. manually insert the track breaks, eq, compress, normalize, burn an ISO image to the hard drive, and then finally burn the damn CD. In those days 1 coaster (wall clock, frisbee) per 10 was a good ratio. Needless to say, I only made mix cd's for my very best friends and they cherished them. Remastering my friends' Dead bootlegs would be a 50$ service.

I wouldn't toss DB stuff just because the DCW isn't the greatest for burning compilations and live shows. The main feature for me is really the DMC & DAP combo, which lets you rip everything to any format effortlessly & then play the tunes without having to decompress to Wav. The Gapless issue is not exactly icing on the cake, but it isn't the bread & butter either.

Wayne
03-21-2004, 04:14 AM
I agree. Just because dCW doesn't support gapless CDs is no reason not to use it or other dBpowerAMP programs.

I have found dCW to be perfect for creating MP3 CDs for use with my In-Car entertainment.

Unregistered
05-13-2004, 06:04 AM
when I split one big mp3 file into tracks with 'MP3 Splitter' and burn with any burner(making sure the gap is '0') I still get a slight gap. Is there any other software that I could use that would split the tracks without creating a gap??

Unregistered
10-12-2004, 11:09 AM
.mp3 format is not gapless....that's the problem :-(

dunnright
01-02-2005, 10:32 PM
Well, as is evident in the attention of this thread, this is a desired feature.

I really don't want to go to nero or roxio, but for my live recordings(about 85% of the stuff I'm going to burn) it NEEDS to be gapless.

Oh well, I was starting to like this program.

Anyone know of any other cheap/free/share programs for burning music discs?
:(