Insecure ripping of brand new disks

[paulomario77]

Hello,

I registered dBpoweramp Reference just recently and I have followed the guide at http://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper-setup-guide.htm. My setup is a Dell Studio XPS M1340 notebook, Windows 7 Ultimate x64, and dBPoweramp reports an HL-DT-ST CD Drive, Model GS20N, Firmware A110. The Spath's Cache Explorer (CacheEx) utility reported a 73kB cache line size. Other settings are as follows:


Drive offset: 667
Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active
Using C2: Yes
Cache: 73 KB
FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max
Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra:: Vary Drive Speed: Yes
Min Passes: 1
Max Passes: 2
Finish After Clean Passes: 1
Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: Max
Maximum Re-reads: 60
Encoder: Apple Lossless

I started ripping my entire CD collection but I got insecure rips from 8 albums so far. The problem is, out of these 8 discs, 1 is brand new and only 2 are visibly damaged (lots of scratches, and one even has a stain that looks like a corrosion point on the aluminum surface). This latter (the disc with the corrosion stain) was used for the C2 test, which confirmed my drive has this C2 feature.

The brand new disc that yielded insecure rips gives log results that look like these:


Track 4: Ripped LBA 43665 to 62695 (4:13) in 1:37. Filename: C:\Users\Paulo\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music\Barao Vermelho\Balada MTV\Barao Vermelho - 04 - Enquanto Ela Nao Chegar.m4a
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 6) Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 1 Frames]
CRC32: 4B9809FC AccurateRip CRC: 8AF4F8DC [DiscID: 014-001a2184-0119db43-b80c0d0e-4]
** Reached Maximum 1 Unrecoverable Frames For This Track
Re-rip Frame: 43936 (00:00:03,600)

Track 6: Ripped LBA 78632 to 94002 (3:24) in 1:40. Filename: C:\Users\Paulo\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music\Barao Vermelho\Balada MTV\Barao Vermelho - 06 - Meus Bons Amigos.m4a
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 6) Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 7 Frames]
CRC32: 4A2BC87C AccurateRip CRC: 5B38D022 [DiscID: 014-001a2184-0119db43-b80c0d0e-6]
** Reached Maximum 1 Unrecoverable Frames For This Track
Re-rip Frame: 93646 (00:03:20,173) matched 10 / 11
Re-rip Frame: 93659 (00:03:20,346). Insecure (c2 dropped 58) [c2 best match]
Re-rip Frame: 93699 (00:03:20,880). Insecure (c2 dropped 56) [c2 best match]
Re-rip Frame: 93700 (00:03:20,893). Insecure (c2 dropped 58) [c2 best match]
Re-rip Frame: 93713 (00:03:21,066)

Track 12: Ripped LBA 184182 to 202827 (4:08) in 1:17. Filename: C:\Users\Paulo\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music\Barao Vermelho\Balada MTV\Barao Vermelho - 12 - Stealing Around - Dj Rogerinho.m4a
AccurateRip: Inaccurate (confidence 6) Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 3 Frames]
CRC32: AFCA2057 AccurateRip CRC: D0256E9A [DiscID: 014-001a2184-0119db43-b80c0d0e-12]
Re-rip Frame: 193296 (00:02:01,506) matched 10 / 12 (c2 dropped 24)
Re-rip Frame: 193313 (00:02:01,733). Insecure (c2 dropped 59) [c2 best match]
Re-rip Frame: 193314 (00:02:01,746). Insecure (c2 dropped 58) [c2 best match]

This disc has 14 tracks, and 8 of them reported inaccurate ripping. I wouldn't be surprised if any of you told me that Brazilian-made CDs have quality issues, but I'm intrigued by a brand new disk presenting such problems. Perhaps it is a problem with my CD drive (e.g. deffect, or bad C2 implementation)?

I would like to add that I'm also getting secure rips from brand new discs that show disagreement with the AccurateRip database. Perhaps in this case, as the on line documentation suggests, that's due to different pressings (i.e. AccurateRip submissions are mostly done by American users and I'm ripping Brazilian-made CDs which have subtle differences).

Regards,
Paulo Mario

[eaglescout1998]

I would try turning off C2 for this drive. Some drives don't work well with it. I have an LG drive which also identifies itself as HL-DT-ST and turning off C2 was the only way I could get accurate rips with it.

[paulomario77]

I would try turning off C2 for this drive. Some drives don't work well with it. I have an LG drive which also identifies itself as HL-DT-ST and turning off C2 was the only way I could get accurate rips with it.

Thanks for your reply. I'll try turning C2 off. But I have some questions: should I re-rip all the disks that gave me insecure rips? Or perhaps re-rip all disks all over again (even the ones marked as secure but which yielded AccurateRip disagreements)? Can a bad C2 implementation actually corrupt one or more frames that would otherwise be ripped reliably/trustworthy?

Regards,
Paulo Mario

[paulomario77]

OK, turned C2 off, now the disk that I was referring to was ripped and only 2 tracks were marked insecure (with C2 on, 8 tracks were insecure). However, 4 tracks were marked as "secure (warning)" (has to be re-riped).

I just don't understand why a "scratchless" disk would give such poor results. Poor manufacturing?

[eaglescout1998]

Just a word of caution. If you turn off C2, you may want to lower the number of maximum re-reads. With a higher number, it's possible that the ripper may be passing consistent read errors.

For what it is worth, I have come across some tracks that my LG drive (which, again, identifies as an HL-DT-ST) simply refuses to rip. Fortunately, I have a secondary disc drive (an HP) which will rip those tracks. In fact, I would use the HP as my primary ripper as it has better C2 support . . . but the HP is much slower.

[Spoon]

Even if a disc is spotless, it might have a manufacturing defect which you cannot see, but is present.

[paulomario77]

Just a word of caution. If you turn off C2, you may want to lower the number of maximum re-reads. With a higher number, it's possible that the ripper may be passing consistent read errors.

For what it is worth, I have come across some tracks that my LG drive (which, again, identifies as an HL-DT-ST) simply refuses to rip. Fortunately, I have a secondary disc drive (an HP) which will rip those tracks. In fact, I would use the HP as my primary ripper as it has better C2 support . . . but the HP is much slower.

For C2 turned off, what would be a good value for maximum re-reads? I'm using the default (36 if I recall, I'm at the office).

You said that you could only get accurate rips by turning off C2. Seems it is implied that, rather than not detecting rip errors, a bad C2 implementation actually yields the opposite: gives false positives. Is that it?

And let me ask you again: IF my drive has bad C2 detection, should I re-rip all tracks that had been ripped when C2 was on and that were different from (or were not in) AccurateRip database? Is there a possibility that these tracks have been insecurely ripped and C2 didn't care?

[Spoon]

>Is there a possibility that these tracks have been insecurely ripped and C2 didn't care?

There is the possibility, yes.

[wpslo]

FYI:
Just run (20101118) Webroot Spysweeper on a download of "Spath's Cache Explorer" and it reported a virus: "MAL\PACKER". I did not install the program.
It was downloaded from http\download.cdfreaks.comdownload155.
I posted here because the utility was mentioned here.
Has anyone installed CacheEx recently and from where?

[Spoon]

Try some of the online virus checkers (upload the file for checking), I personally never believe a virus checker unless a few verify the virus (too many false positives).

[wpslo]

Fair point. In any case if CacheEx digs around in the drivers I can see it might give a false positive as a virus.
Will try with McAfee (free). Actually surprised this has not been flagged up already.

[wpslo]

Have not been able to check with another A.V. package but other forums are reporting this problem. For instance "When cachex.zip is unzipped to cachex.exe, it is detected by CIS......Threat name: Heur.Pck.yoda
Virus signature database version: 2635"
This utility is well respected in the CD enthusiast community."
Apparently because CacheEx is "Run Time Packed" (whatever that is) like 90% of viruses the A.V. packages tend to hit on it.

If there really was a problem I guess the forums would have lit up by now - just imagine if all our lovely rips were totalled by malware.
But then we all have secure, off-site, current, back-ups, recovery from which we regularly test, don't we? So that's all right then.

So I will install it on my XP machine and hope.

[wpslo]

I have now run CacheEx but I had to turn off my A.V..
It does not seem to have done any harm.
BTW my A.V. (Webroot) tries to delete the CAcheEx files as soon as it is re-activated.

[crazyj]

I'm not sure I have the same problem, but after playing with the C2 pointers and lead-in/out, I still can't rip a spotless Eurythmics Greatest Hits disc. Each track reports insecure. I just ripped another disc without issue, so I'm a bit confused.

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 1' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 01 - Love Is a Stranger.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 142 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 1: Ripped LBA 0 to 16577 (3:41) in 0:23. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 01 - Love Is a Stranger.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 142 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 142 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 142 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 2' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 02 - Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This).flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 340 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 2: Ripped LBA 16577 to 38640 (4:54) in 0:28. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 02 - Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This).flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 340 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 340 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 340 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 3' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 03 - Who's That Girl¿.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 265 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 3: Ripped LBA 38640 to 55665 (3:47) in 0:20. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 03 - Who's That Girl¿.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 265 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 265 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 265 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 4' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 04 - Right by Your Side.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 412 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 4: Ripped LBA 55665 to 73112 (3:52) in 0:19. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 04 - Right by Your Side.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 412 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 412 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 412 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 5' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 05 - Here Comes the Rain Again.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 749 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 5: Ripped LBA 73112 to 95712 (5:01) in 0:23. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 05 - Here Comes the Rain Again.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 749 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 749 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 749 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 6' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 06 - There Must Be an Angel (Playing With My Heart).flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 1362 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 6: Ripped LBA 95712 to 116922 (4:42) in 0:20. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 06 - There Must Be an Angel (Playing With My Heart).flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 1362 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 1362 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 1362 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 7' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 07 - Sisters Are Doin' It for Themselves.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 3013 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 7: Ripped LBA 116922 to 138920 (4:53) in 0:20. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 07 - Sisters Are Doin' It for Themselves.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 3013 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 3013 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 3013 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 8' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 08 - It's Alright (Baby's Coming Back).flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 4014 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 8: Ripped LBA 138920 to 155847 (3:45) in 0:15. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 08 - It's Alright (Baby's Coming Back).flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 4014 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 4014 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 4014 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 9' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 09 - When Tomorrow Comes.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 6380 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 9: Ripped LBA 155847 to 175167 (4:17) in 0:24. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 09 - When Tomorrow Comes.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 6380 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 6380 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 6380 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 10' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 10 - You Have Placed a Chill in My Heart.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 15791 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 10: Ripped LBA 175167 to 192345 (3:49) in 0:40. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 10 - You Have Placed a Chill in My Heart.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 15791 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 15791 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 15791 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 11' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 11 - Miracle of Love.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 18088 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 11: Ripped LBA 192345 to 213067 (4:36) in 0:29. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 11 - Miracle of Love.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 18088 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 18088 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 18088 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 12' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 12 - Sex Crime (1984).flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 15643 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 12: Ripped LBA 213067 to 230650 (3:54) in 0:31. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 12 - Sex Crime (1984).flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 15643 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 15643 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 15643 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 13' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 13 - Thorn in My Side.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 18649 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 13: Ripped LBA 230650 to 249655 (4:13) in 0:57. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 13 - Thorn in My Side.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 18649 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 2, Re-Rip 18649 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 18649 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 14' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 14 - Don't Ask Me Why.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 18777 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 14: Ripped LBA 249655 to 268705 (4:14) in 0:40. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 14 - Don't Ask Me Why.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 18777 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 18777 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 18777 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 15' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 15 - Angel.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 21471 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 15: Ripped LBA 268705 to 290377 (4:48) in 0:50. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 15 - Angel.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 21471 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 21471 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 21471 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 16' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 16 - Would I Lie to You¿.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 19714 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 16: Ripped LBA 290377 to 310272 (4:25) in 0:47. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 16 - Would I Lie to You¿.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 19714 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 19714 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 19714 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 17' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 17 - Missionary Man.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 16886 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 17: Ripped LBA 310272 to 327325 (3:47) in 0:40. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 17 - Missionary Man.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 16886 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 16886 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 16886 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Information ripping to FLAC, 'Track 18' to 'D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 18 - I Need a Man.flac'
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 19503 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames
Track 18: Ripped LBA 327325 to 346852 (4:20) in 0:46. Filename: D:\Eurythmics\Greatest Hits\Eurythmics - Greatest Hits - 18 - I Need a Man.flac
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 19503 Frames]
Insecure [Pass 1, Ultra 1 to 1, Re-Rip 19503 Frames]
** Aborted: Have to ReRip 19503 Frames, Re-Rip Limit Set to 100 Frames

Is it possible my drive finally bit it?

[crazyj]

Just as a follow up. Eurythmics Greatest Hits (European Import).

EAC won't do it either.

Tried Burst mode in both as well, and all the files have some amount of distortion or tiny glitches-almost unnoticable.

This is complicated by the fact that playing the cd in dbPoweramp is flawless. Playing it in foobar2000 it starts off pretty rough, then all of a sudden is correct, as if it was an hdcd and it figured out the coding.

I'm guessing that this is a non-standard redbook. it doesn't come up as hdcd in foobar either.

[Spoon]

It is worth having a 2nd CD drive for cases such as this, buy another (different brand) cheap DVD drive.

[crazyj]

I'm not convinced that the drive is at fault. I ripped another disc, and it went flawlessly.

I understand that there are non-standard redbook and intentionally bad discs. This is a Columbia House disc. I understand that they were particularly bad in the copy protection racket. Is there any way to compensate for or detect these problems?

[Spoon]

Different drives read these copy protected discs differently.

[crazyj]

Spoon doesn't lie.

Tried it with:
a) old plextor PX-W4012A - ripped first track accurately, then died (always was a bad drive, I should chuck it)
b) Matsushita SR-8587-B - inaccurate
c) Pioneer DVR-108 - all track ripped accurately. I'll have to keep this one around even though it's almond coloured and my case is black.

Thanks Spoon!