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Dude
02-17-2008, 12:27 PM
Hi,

I was wondering what brands of cd-drives are best for using with dBpoweramp Reference's CD ripper? I have a Plextor PlexWriter Premium and it has C2 error support and also supports FUA. I have very good results with dBpoweramp.
Is Plextor the best brand for cd-drives to use in dBpoweramp's CD Ripper or are there also other good brands (they must have C2 pointers and FUA support)?

thx

EliC
02-17-2008, 12:58 PM
Plextor (as long as its a REAL plextor)

Spoon
02-17-2008, 02:25 PM
The non-real Plextors (230A) is way superior to both a Premium and Premium 2 (which are REAL plextors).

EliC
02-17-2008, 02:52 PM
that is the 230 only, and only in regards to C2 support, but does not support over reading or FUA and may not support HTOA.

pls1
02-17-2008, 03:20 PM
This week I''m testing a new two step process. It is based on some of the mentions of anomalies on this board and my own C2 quality tests with Plex-tools ProXL on damaged audio discs.

Since many of my discs are not in accurate rip or I get an all but one cut match but one -cut secure with no match I'm trying PX-760s first, with re-rip of anything suspicious by PX-230. I got a carton of each Plextor Model, all new, from a local OEM liquidator.

I'm re building my two dedicated IDE machines with one drive each and will re-rip about 50 discs from my first test run of 500 that may be suspicious. I'll report back on the end of the week.

Phil

Dude
02-17-2008, 05:53 PM
The non-real Plextors (230A) is way superior to both a Premium and Premium 2 (which are REAL plextors).

How can you see it's better ? What things will you notice in dbpoweramp with better drives or how do you see that?

What is it about real or not? I have plextor box it was put in, so i guess it's real. What do you mean by not real plextor? If you buy it in store and it has plextor box, it can be fake? :s I don't understand.

Dude
02-17-2008, 05:56 PM
that is the 230 only, and only in regards to C2 support, but does not support over reading or FUA and may not support HTOA.

So there are 'levels' of c2 support ?
if a drive has c2 support it doesn't mean it's identical to another drive's c2 support?

thx

Dude
02-17-2008, 06:13 PM
Can Spoon confirm if Plextor drives (and also the PX-230) are the best choice? I would like to hear also the opinion of the developer :)

thx!

Spoon
02-18-2008, 03:24 AM
C2 support varies between drive models, some good some bad. I wouldn't say the c2 of 230a was the best, the drive is very good at reading through sratches. By saying it is a non-real plextor that means the drive internals are not Plextor design, but from another CD drive.

Dude
02-18-2008, 01:13 PM
C2 support varies between drive models, some good some bad.

Let's say I buy a new cd-drive, is there a way to find out, as dbpoweramp user, how good the c2 support is? I don't really understand how you can see this.


By saying it is a non-real plextor that means the drive internals are not Plextor design, but from another CD drive.

So the 230a is sold by plextor and has 'plextor' brand but actually plextor uses components from other manufacturers to make this drive?

thx

EliC
02-19-2008, 12:20 PM
The 230a is made by another company and the plextor label is applied.

bhoar
02-19-2008, 02:05 PM
The 230a is made by another company and the plextor label is applied.

In addition, Plextor modified (or had modified for them) the firmware (low-level software that runs on the drive hardware). Whether that modification simply rebadged the drive or also included functional changes, who knows...

-brendan

Dude
02-19-2008, 05:47 PM
is that 230a still in stores or is it a n old drive?

thx

Spoon
02-20-2008, 03:07 AM
All good Plextor models (230a & 7xx have been discontinued) so grab them while the few stores have them, Premium2 is in most stores, but ct magazine tested it and it came out worse than average for reading audio.

Dude
02-20-2008, 07:03 AM
All good Plextor models (230a & 7xx have been discontinued) so grab them while the few stores have them,

Do you have an idea why they make worse drives for audio extraction now instead of making progress? :s



Premium2 is in most stores, but ct magazine tested it and it came out worse than average for reading audio.

What is your experience with the Premium1 for reading audio?

Spoon
02-20-2008, 02:10 PM
I only tested the Premium 1 very quickly, it seemed average.

Dude
02-21-2008, 01:32 PM
I only tested the Premium 1 very quickly, it seemed average.

Still my original question remains: how can you actually see how good a drive is?
Where do you look at when ripping to determine it's good, average, not good, ...?

thx

Spoon
02-21-2008, 02:31 PM
Testing is not too easy, the best test uses the same CD which is just on the edge of recoverability and rip on multiple drives.

pls1
02-21-2008, 05:03 PM
An update here.

Using dbpoweramp I've ripped about 500 classical CD's (which is 10% of my collection). These are from my personal collection and many are physically from the dawn of the CD era. The CDs have been ripped on new Plextor PX-760 or PX-755 drives with secure dbpoweramp settings.

Of these 500 CDs, about 50 had track(s) that would not rip for a total of about 100 tracks. Most CDs had visible scratches but some seem to be deteriorating from age. Doing a re-rip on my "best" PX-760 drive (where best was defined as highest number of C2 errors detected using Plextools Pro) I could get about 10% to rip on a second try.

Yesterday, I finished a dedicated IDE machine with a fresh XP install and PX-230A drives on the main IDE and an IDE/ATA card in th PCI bus with a second PX-230. These PX-230s are new surplus OEM.

The PX230 drives have been able to rip about 90% of the tracks that the PX-7xx could not. I re-ripped ten of the CD's that were successfully ripped on the PX-230 again on the "best" Plextor 760. Not one of them would successfully rip.

Phil

bhoar
02-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Looks like the PX-230 is a good drive for damaged discs, then. :)

-brendan

pls1
02-21-2008, 05:43 PM
yeah, looks like I don't need to buy an automated disc polishing machine.
Phil

tourrilhes
02-21-2008, 08:18 PM
Hi,

My personal experience, with around 300 rips. I'm currently using Plextor PX-230A, a Samsung SH-S162L, a Lite-On 20A1P. I've tried quickly a Benq DW-1625, a Benq DW800A and a LG GCE-8160B.

I currently have not been able to fault the PX-230A, it just works great and its fast.

My opinion of the SH-S162L is that it is superb on scratches, maybe even better than the PX-230A, but it will give the occasional random undetected error on perfect CDs. Burst speed slower than the PX-230A, EAC secure speed about the same. It does not support lead-out, but that does not matter much as the offset is only 6.

My opinion of the 20A1P is that it's pretty good on scratches, just a notch below the other twos. But, like the SH-S162L, it it will give the occasional random undetected error on perfect CDs. Burst speed is faster than the SH-S162L, EAC secure mode twice slower. It does not support lead-out, but that does not matter much as the offset is only 6.

My opinion of the LG GCE-8160B is that it's not very good on scratches, and may give undetected errors. It was probably as fast as the SH-S162L. Newer LG may be different.

My opinion of the two Benq is that they are not very good with scratches (comparatively) and slow.

My personal opinion is that the key to accurate ripping is diversity. If the CD is not in the AccurateRip database, I rip it again on a drive from a different manufacturer and compare the CRCs (i.e. my personal AccurateRip).

Jean

Spoon
02-22-2008, 03:06 AM
Yes verifying on a 2nd drive (different chipset - easy to spot if the drive has a different offset), is very good as secure rips are concerned.

The 230a does has a minor fault, that is, sometime on a pristine disc with no scratches it can struggle, now it could be the disc is not quite within the 'CD' manufacturig guidelines, ie has a manufacturing defect, where as other 'poorer' drives might rip the CD fine. The 230a could rip 99.5% fine then other 0.5% you might need a 2nd drive.

Dude
02-22-2008, 10:16 AM
My opinion of the SH-S162L is that it is superb on scratches, maybe even better than the PX-230A, but it will give the occasional random undetected error on perfect CDs.

Can you explain what you mean by 'occasional random undetected error' on perfect CDs? How can there be an error if your CD is in perfect state?

Dude
02-22-2008, 10:18 AM
The 230a could rip 99.5% fine then other 0.5% you might need a 2nd drive.

I'm still wondering how you can actually see the drive ripped a track fine? If dbpoweramp says 'secure' (when the cd is not in accuraterip database) can you assume that the drive ripped it securely? Because how trusty would this result be if the drive reports wrong C2 error pointers or is this not possible?

thx

Dude
02-22-2008, 10:20 AM
I currently have not been able to fault the PX-230A, it just works great and its fast.

How do you know there are no errors? Suppose dbpoweramp says it's securely ripped but the drive just passed wrong data on scratches in some tracks even with C2 pointers enabled and drive's cache disabled?

tourrilhes
02-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Can you explain what you mean by 'occasional random undetected error' on perfect CDs? How can there be an error if your CD is in perfect state?

Note that I personally use EAC, but I think most of what I experience would apply to some degree to dbpoweramp.

One less than 1% of the track I rip, EAC indicate a secure rip but the track either does not match with AccurateRip or with a rip on my other drive.

Why would there be such error ? Well, between the CD and the final rip, you have an awfull lot of software and hardware, those things are not perfect.


How do you know there are no errors? Suppose dbpoweramp says it's securely ripped but the drive just passed wrong data on scratches in some tracks even with C2 pointers enabled and drive's cache disabled?

The reason I know if there is an error or not is because I spent time to work on my workflow and validate it. I still can not be sure that my workflow will detect all errors, but my goal is to minimise the probability to a level where it does not matter.

As as say, the key is diversity. Basically, I trust nothing, and assume everything has a probability of error. But if different method which have no correlation aggrees, then you get better confidence. Let say method A has 1% error rate and method B has 1% error rate and are not correlated, if both agrees you are close to 0.01% error rate.

My workflow is as follows :

1) Rip in EAC secure mode with the SH-S162L or 20A1P.
2) If AccurateRip match with high confidence, done with it.
3) If a single track mismatch, re-rip that track (i.e. go to 1)
4) Test in EAC burst mode with the PX-230
5) If CRC of test matches the rip version, done with it.
6) If only last track mismatch, check if due to offset difference (i.e. difference is only in last samples).
7) If CRC mismatch, go back to 1, using the other drive.

Note that I have a very short stack of CDs which are problematic. Most of them because on one track my results agree with themselves but disagree with AcurateRip (i.e. they came out of my workflow at step 5).

Jean

MusicTrax
02-24-2008, 05:52 AM
I have an older Plextor 230 that was getting flakey, and opted to try the PX-750A, because it was highly rated by CDR Labs. (http://www.cdrlabs.com/) That site does some extensive tests on ripping audio files, data files, etc., and charts how the drives do in ripping from damaged discs. They stated that the 750 handled damaged discs "surprisingly well," coming in much better than comparable drives from LG, Asus and NEC. It also supported C2 and AccurateStream, which a lot of newer drives don't anymore. I think its performance is actually better than most of the Plextors that followed it, which appear to be more cheaply made.

So for the above reasons, I opted to go for several banks of PX-750A drives in two ripping stations I set up. So far, after going through a couple of thousand CDs, it's been pretty much flawless. My only complaint with it is that it tends to slow down quite a bit on damaged discs -- roughly about 5X or 8X -- but I still have yet to find a single file with any audible problems. I'm satisfied that it's doing a great job.

I think it helps that I have 8 different PX-750s, so I'm not beating the crap out of one drive over a long period of time. I was able to find a local supplier that had a dozen of them as NOS, and they were only about $50 each, which I think was a reasonable price. Once I finish my ripping project (2000 down, only 10,000 to go), I hope to be able to re-use the drives in other systems for DVD viewing and writing.

pls1
02-24-2008, 02:54 PM
I opted to go for several banks of PX-750A drives in two ripping stations I set up. So far, after going through a couple of thousand CDs, it's been pretty much flawless.

What do you do about discs not in AccurateRip where it took more than one pass to get a clean rip or required frame re-ripping? How do you determine that you have a bit perfect rip. Do you just check "interpolate unrecoverable frames" and not care about getting a bit perfect rip as long as there are no noticeable sonic artifacts?


Similarly, as per tourrilhe's post above, I am getting a little less than 1/2% of my tracks that are:

1. NOT in Accuraterip,
2. Required multiple passes or frame re-ripping
3. The rips are marked as "Secure" by dbpoweramp.
4. Can re-rip them on a different model drive, again get a "Secure" rip
5. Get two DIFFERENT CRCs.

This is based on about 700 disc rips so far. I've viewed all these rips rips as "testing" so I do not have a formal Quality Control log or consistent "Secure" settings. Therefore, I'm not completely sure of the actual error rates. but yesterday I re-ripped 10 problematic tracks and definitely got "Secure" but different CRCs.

Since Spoon said it can take up to two months for a CD to get into Accuraterip, I can't use my own first rip in accurate rip to verify my rip using another drive. I'm now going try a statistical test using a variation on tourrilhe's work-flow without interpolation.

Anyones suggestions on this would be welcome.

First I'm going to re-rip my several hundred test CD's. I'll use banks of Plextor 760s as the first rip station with Secure settings of one Ultra passes, no interpolation, re-rip frames and mark track as error. This establishes my base CRC.

Every CD not in accuraterip gets ripped a second time on a second bank of Plextor 230s set at First Pass + 1 Ultra. If the CRCs match I'm done.

All CRC mismatches can be re-ripped on a different 760 or 230 at higher ultra-secure settings or I can use one of my other available drives including Plextor B900, PX755, PX-708, Premium or Samsung SH-W162 until I get a matching CRC. Then I'm done.

I'm only doing this because I have so many irreplaceable CDs, I want to know whether I have an exact file extraction. I have already found 1% have rotted in some way as to have unrecoverable tracks.

Phil

EliC
02-24-2008, 05:45 PM
The PX230 drives have been able to rip about 90% of the tracks that the PX-7xx could not. I re-ripped ten of the CD's that were successfully ripped on the PX-230 again on the "best" Plextor 760. Not one of them would successfully rip.

Phil

I think you have to compare to the 708, 712, or 716 as the rest of the 7xx series is not made by plextor (there are some questions about the 750-760 though).

HamLet
02-24-2008, 06:40 PM
Px-230a seems very hard to find in US. Anyone has a source? And how about PX-240a ?? Thanks, -- Ham

LtData
02-24-2008, 07:08 PM
I managed to snag a 230a on ebay for cheap, but don't see any others on ebay right now, unfortunately.

pls1
02-24-2008, 07:16 PM
Dakesh Computers ebay store has 30 NOS 230 available. That where I have purchased all my various models of NOS Plextors. They aren't cheap but they have most models available and i've made multiple orders from them.

http://stores.ebay.com/Daksh-Computers

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLEXTOR-PX-230A-SW-52X32X52-NEW-CDRW-DRIVE-W-SOFTWARE_W0QQitemZ180168794412QQcmdZViewItem?hash= item180168794412&_trksid=p3285.c63.m20.l1116


Phil

pls1
02-24-2008, 07:52 PM
I think you have to compare to the 708, 712, or 716 as the rest of the 7xx series is not made by plextor (there are some questions about the 750-760 though).

If you have a reliable reference for the 755 and 760 not being "real" Plextors would you be able to provide it?

The 755 and 760 models on an IDE machine execute all the advanced functions in Plextools XLPro so I think these are "real" Plextors. Those models that are generally acknowledged as rebadged, do not execute the advanced functions in Plextools XLPro.

C2 detection works on these machines in dbPoweramp and of the about one hundred test discs so far that were a match in AccurateRip AND did not have excessive C2 errors (as measured by the Plextools ProXL), these discs ripped as "AccurateRip: Accurate..." on the first or second pass. So I'm not too concerned about the PX-760's as my original baseline. cdfreaks also included these as "real' in a thread on the subject.

It is where the result is: No AccurateRip match or a pressing mismatch AND some kind of damage where I'm concerned about the accuracy of the rip and will re-rip on drives with other chipsets. In particular since I know the 230 will provide a "Secure" rip for most of my discs that were "Errors" with the 760's, my thinking is that the 230's will provide a better second rip. Only for mismatched CRCs between the 760s and 230s will I need an additional tie breaker. I have four other models, each with different chipsets, that received high scores in reviews by cdrinfo for their CD reading and CD error correction functionality.

Based on my results so far, I probably have 3000 or so discs NOT in AccurateRip that will require ripping on two different drives. I don't really know how many mismatched CRCs. I'm analyzing my logs now and will run some tests tomorrow.

I might have 100-300 seriously damaged discs in my collection of 5000 plus . Probably 50-100 will be rotted (which I can detect with the PlexTools ProXL combined quality tests) and unrecoverable not to mention irreplaceable.

So maybe 50 to 100 discs will need a third or fourth ripping where I need to break the ties. After about two months of playing around with several hundred discs, I have a better idea of how this works and will set up more formal logging and QC. We will see.

Phil

PigsOnTheWing
02-27-2008, 12:52 PM
Has anyone tried the external USB version of the Plexwriter Premium (10 out of 10 according to CDRLabs.com (http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=211&page=Features))?

Has anyone tried the 240A (2007)? How does it compare to the 230A?

Spoon
02-27-2008, 02:47 PM
I am doubting CDRLabs testing of (certain) drives for DAE, their review of the PX-708a:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=203

States it does not support c2, when it does. Also their audio reading test seems not to test the drives too much, many drives score top results, so there is not differentiation.

pls1
02-27-2008, 05:39 PM
I am doubting CDRLabs testing of (certain) drives for DAE, their review of the PX-708a:

http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=203

States it does not support c2, when it does. Also their audio reading test seems not to test the drives too much, many drives score top results, so there is not differentiation.

Yeah cdrlabs give too many drives high marks but it seems that any drive that doesn't get a high mark is probably best avoided since those of us not in the business will not likely have a wide sample of drives or the tools to test them. For anyone with a very large CD collection, the cost of buying the right drives to rip our collection is a very small cost compared to the costs of the thousands of CDs and the time investment to get an accurate rip.

My own testing of about 10 models of drives, on their ability to read damaged CDs, showed that the Plextor 7xx and re-badged Plextor 230 drives have been able to read all but the most damaged and rotted discs with consistent check sums. So far, I have not found a drive that will read these discs if the best drive of each Plextor model won't. So as far as "best" for my project I'm done with the drive selection. However, the "best" of four different PX-760 drives is still a little "worse' that the "worst" of four different PX-230s at reading damaged discs.

It is just a pain, if you are paranoid, to rip twice when the CD is in NOT Accurate rip or when there is only 1 entry. I have seen anomalies when the album has a single Accuraterip entry. An example is Monteverdi Madrigals Book Four on the small Opus111 label. All but one track matched as accurate(1) and the one track that was labeled not accurate was in the middle of the CD. Multiple rips on my part, on different drive models, always give the same Checksum on that track so I am convinced the accuraterip result for that track is wrong.

I not complaining about dbpoweramp, I think it is a great product, now that I have some experience with it, or Accuraterip for that matter even though it is of marginal use to me given my obscure collection.. It's just a lot of work to preserve your CD collection and I'm glad I didn't try DAE before 2008.

Phil

Kurt_S
02-29-2008, 11:58 PM
I can confirm the praise for the P230A. I have a three Plextors in on PC now, P230A and PX-760A on IDE and a PX-712 on a SATA channel. The P230A beats these and a few others I have used to rip hands down. Thanks for the recommendation Spoon.

I just finished building a PC with new X38 Intel chipset, CPU Duo E6850/3GHz and 3.0 GBs RAID 0 local disk. I am ripping FLAC and the path in CDGrabber is a ReadyNAS+. Had all kinds of trouble getting Vista 64 to work at first with dbPoweramp. BSOD and always pointing at the Video driver at first and actually punted back to XP. Once I built out RAID 0 using the Intel Matrix storage software and got all the PCI IDE controller driver updated I went back to Vista 64 which was a struggle but now the performance is 3x what XP was doing. Now I can rip a typical CD and have the FLAC on the NAS in 3 to 4 minutes tops. I have seen the app report ripping speed of as high as x49. I am using the LU - Service add on. In burst mode because the drive never has a problem.

No I don't work for Microsoft... I rather don't like them but the music server is my most important app and I could not get a Linux solution going like this.

Kurt_S
03-01-2008, 12:11 AM
Joni Mitchel's Blue just finished in 2:10 elapsed time. Sweet!

Spook
03-01-2008, 07:20 AM
Can anyone expand on the interface types, and if there is any known reasons to steer towards one or the other?

..I am sort of notebook bound and my experience ripping tracks to files using the in-built DVD/CD/Writer has been workable but I am thinking that I should look for a USB or Firewire chassis and pair it up with a bonafide CD reader.

Similarly, interface type aside, is there any arguement for/against using a CD reader Vs. CD-R/RW drive? (I dunno if even plain jane CD reader only can still be found :))

Lastly, unless it'd be best for another topic -- is there any major compelling reasons to not use multi-format capable drives for low duty ripping only?

Thinking about perhaps a USB/1394 1-4-ALL drive now that Blu-Ray has apparently been embraced as the latest VHS.

pls1
03-01-2008, 11:15 AM
Spook:
First consider how many CDs you plan to rip and whether most are in AccurateRip. If almost all are in accuraterip and you are getting "Accurate" matches I wouldn't worry.

If you have thousands of obscure CDs then you should consider alternatives since in that case ripping everything as "Burst" mode as Kurt S is doing would not be prudent because you will get errors on some of your tracks. How many depends on the condition and age of the physical CDs in your collection .

If you want to build an external setup, you should take a look at the thread I started called "Plextor No C2 support" for the hassles I had getting error detection to work. I still have not been able to get C2 support on any firewire interface (including the Plextor firewire drives). Now I could just be doing something stupid but I haven't gotten any suggestions that worked, so I have given up on firewire.

What does work is what Kurt S uses (assuming your existing media software doesn't conflict) and your drivers are up to date. Getting the conflicting software off your machine and getting the right drivers will work but this might be a frustrating task.

What i did was install an add-on IDE or eSATA card connected to drives in an external enclosure. I've built two identical machines where one uses an eSATA card and the other an IDE card. They both work fine with dbpoweramp C2 error detection and any combo of drives.

Wikipedia will give you the interface descriptions but roughly speaking, IDE is the older physical connection with flat ribbon cable and a published limit of 18 inches of cable. The eSATA limit is just under six feet. for a laptop you could get a PCIMA to eSATA card for about $40 and connect to the external drive that way.

The connectors at the drive end can be a little tricky using eSATA and you might need an addonics IDE to SATA board on the back of your drive. As to which models use which interfaces here is an example JUST for most Plextor drives. If there is not an SA or UF suffix on the model number it uses the IDE connector. UF is the external model of USB or Firewire while the SA suffix uses the SATA interface. If you want a specific interface you should always check the mfg website and gent an EXACT match on the model number.

If you are lucky your collection is in AccurateRip and you can forget about all this and enjoy your music.

Phil

Kurt_S
03-01-2008, 05:49 PM
Nice post pls1 and good advice.

I really think the fast RAID 0 is probably most responsible for my performance jump of 3x but I would like to hear opinions. What ever I did most certainly like it. I know I have more wrestling with Vista to do but at least now I can support the "all feet in" direction I took with new tech for my hifi.

pls1
03-01-2008, 06:39 PM
Kurt, i can't prove it but my guess is it's getting the drivers right. I use XP and it's as fast as what you report for Vista.

I've got an overclocked XP Quad core with reasonably advanced performance monitoring and the ripping or encoding won't use much more than 50% of a core or significantly load my Raptor systems disk, where as on a dual core P4 at similar clock speed, ripping and encoding can use 100% of a core.

The dedicated IDE or SATA add on card gives a faster rip for me than the MOBO IDE/SATA (insert your own speculation here). However, since most of my CDs are not in accuraterip and therefore need ultra-secure mode, burst speed doesn't really mean much in terms of elapsed months. Usually I['ll run two or three instances of dbpoweramp at the same time. I'm pushing 1000 cds ripped and at least 4000 to go. My biggest time drag is getting the meta-data/tags right on my classical CDs.

Phil

Spook
03-04-2008, 08:19 PM
Thanks for all the advise!

I'm probably setup okay with exception of a true CD-R drive. The MP3 CD-R made in the DVD-RW seem to have problems playing back in my other equipment.


My biggest time drag is getting the meta-data/tags right on my classical CDs.
Heh, I know what you mean. I don't have that many CD but the few classical I've done so far have cost me hours to get tagged as I want.

PigsOnTheWing
03-30-2008, 02:22 PM
I can confirm the praise for the P230A.

I just picked up a 230A to replace my Plexwriter Premium. I'm confused about the settings for this drive, though. dMC says the 230A does not cache, and EAC (prebeta 4) says it does. Which is actually correct?

Spoon
03-30-2008, 02:51 PM
It does cache, setting 1024 KB will not hurt (it is really around 580KB)

bmw
03-30-2008, 03:02 PM
I've the Samsung SH-203N I hope it's good.

PigsOnTheWing
03-30-2008, 04:05 PM
It [PX-230A] does cache, setting 1024 KB will not hurt (it is really around 580KB)

Thanks, Spoon. I'm assuming I need to enter something manually ... since hitting the 'Detect' button comes back with '(none).'

What is the proper syntax?

1024
1024 KB
1024KB
1024 K
1024 kb
1024kb
1024 k

Would I be correct in assuming FUA Support is a no go?

Why is this drive better than my Plexwriter Premium again?

Spoon
03-30-2008, 04:43 PM
FUA is not used on 230a, any of the above you listed will be accepted.

vance43211
04-07-2008, 11:46 PM
hi I'm new here

what's C2 error support? the ability to play scratch discs?

I had a sony or pioneer dvd rom only player (I sold that drive to my brother. I'll look for the model no. next time I see his computer) that excelled at this. it rip discs that would not even load into any other cd player home or computer. years ago I ripped everyone on my scratch discs to my computer then back them up to my other computers. I no longer have a need for it, because now when I buy a cd, I burn 2 copies, rip it and put the original up.

the funny thing was I started buying that name brand dvd burner and roms because of this feature and I could never find one that could rip as good as that one

Spoon
04-08-2008, 03:06 AM
c2 is the ability to detect errors.

vance43211
04-12-2008, 06:52 PM
thanks

KOF
04-21-2008, 04:35 PM
thanks

What about an the best external Cd drive for ripping.

vance43211
04-21-2008, 06:35 PM
I don't know about these new technologies now, but in the old days, dvd rom's not burners were the best drive for ripping

KOF
04-21-2008, 07:05 PM
I don't know about these new technologies now, but in the old days, dvd rom's not burners were the best drive for ripping

Spoon can you recommend a good (the best) external cd drive? I'm thinking to buy one to get best ripping possible... so far i know that PLEXTOR brand is the best...

What you think about Plextor PX810UFSWBL External CD/DVD RW Drive (Black)

Spoon
04-22-2008, 03:18 AM
I am not sure the 8xx line of Plextors are any good, no imperical evidence just people talking about it not being great. Some of the early good plextors, such as Plextor PX-712UF, were external USB. You can still buy, but they are not cheap, esaitech.com has them in stock.

vance43211
04-22-2008, 09:15 AM
I know around here you can buy an external usb kit for $15.00. then you can use whatever burner that you want

KOF
04-22-2008, 09:31 AM
I know around here you can buy an external usb kit for $15.00. then you can use whatever burner that you want

What you mean with any even an "internal cd drive"?

vance43211
04-22-2008, 11:12 AM
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0275973

they have a few 15.00 ones that accept ide drives. I couldn't find the links though. you can put any hdd or cd rom in them

pls1
04-22-2008, 12:42 PM
I use CoolGear 5.25" IDE to USB/Firewire external enclosures

http://www.coolgear.com/Category.cfm?catid=313&s=5&AZX=

I have Plextor Plexwriter, PX-230 and PX-760 drives in them. One potential issue with external USB enclosures is that with your specific computer, dbpoweramp may not be able to detect C2 over the USB connection. This is very likely to be the case with a computer whose MOBO has on-board SATA RAID controllers.

C2 over USB can also sometimes be disrupted by other media drivers (Creative and Nero). To even further muddy the waters, I could only get C2 detection over USB from the CoolGear enclosures with dbpoweramp by installing Plextools.

I never got Firewire to work detecting C2 on any of my five different machines (all desktops). There are two or three LONG threads about this issue from back in January or February.

I also use Addonics IDE to SATA adapter boards and plug dvd drives directly into the SATA MOBO or an external eSATA connection. This has provided reliable C2 detection with the DVD drives (Plextor and Samsung) but not the CD only drives.

I also tried two models of Plextor external USB/Firewire drives (708UF and 718UF). I could not get dbpoweramp to detect c2.

Very maddening. This should be an FAQ. If I write up a FAQ on this will Lt. Data or Spoons allow it in the FAQ?

Phil

bhoar
04-22-2008, 12:58 PM
Very maddening. This should be an FAQ. If I write up a FAQ on this will Lt. Data or Spoons allow it in the FAQ?

I'd vote for that!

-brendan

KOF
04-22-2008, 01:57 PM
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0275973

they have a few 15.00 ones that accept ide drives. I couldn't find the links though. you can put any hdd or cd rom in them

Nice enclosure thanks. so let me get straight if i buy 1 the usb/fireware enclosure plus two PLEXTOR cd drives i can connect to my computer and rip two cds at the same time using the bach process right?

KOF
04-22-2008, 02:00 PM
I use CoolGear 5.25" IDE to USB/Firewire external enclosures

http://www.coolgear.com/Category.cfm?catid=313&s=5&AZX=

I have Plextor Plexwriter, PX-230 and PX-760 drives in them. One potential issue with external USB enclosures is that with your specific computer, dbpoweramp may not be able to detect C2 over the USB connection. This is very likely to be the case with a computer whose MOBO has on-board SATA RAID controllers.

C2 over USB can also sometimes be disrupted by other media drivers (Creative and Nero). To even further muddy the waters, I could only get C2 detection over USB from the CoolGear enclosures with dbpoweramp by installing Plextools.

I never got Firewire to work detecting C2 on any of my five different machines (all desktops). There are two or three LONG threads about this issue from back in January or February.

I also use Addonics IDE to SATA adapter boards and plug dvd drives directly into the SATA MOBO or an external eSATA connection. This has provided reliable C2 detection with the DVD drives (Plextor and Samsung) but not the CD only drives.

I also tried two models of Plextor external USB/Firewire drives (708UF and 718UF). I could not get dbpoweramp to detect c2.

Very maddening. This should be an FAQ. If I write up a FAQ on this will Lt. Data or Spoons allow it in the FAQ?

Phil

Spoon What you have to say about this... so is not safe to buy a external usb cd drive... i want to get all this with my drives using dbpoweramp 12.4

caching: YES
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: YES

Spoon
04-22-2008, 04:30 PM
That is the problem, many enclosures do not allow the 'good stuff' such as c2. The trouble with a sticky FAQ is these things get out of date very quickly.

pls1
04-22-2008, 05:27 PM
Nice enclosure thanks. so let me get straight if i buy 1 the usb/fireware enclosure plus two PLEXTOR cd drives i can connect to my computer and rip two cds at the same time using the batch process right?

The answer is only probably. It depends on your MOBO and what other software you might have on your machine.

The only bullet proof way I have found to guarantee c2 detection is with a PCI bus IDE add in card and an an 80 wire IDE cable to an IDE drive set to master.

I do have four of the CoolDrive USB enclosures with PX-230 and PX-760 to an nvidia RAID MOBO but it takes Plextools to support C2 detection with dbpoweramp. it works fine for me with multiple instances of R12.


Phil

bhoar
04-22-2008, 05:44 PM
The answer is only probably. It depends on your MOBO and what other software you might have on your machine.

The only bullet proof way I have found to guarantee c2 detection is with a PCI bus IDE add in card and an an 80 wire IDE cable to an IDE drive set to master.

I do have four of the CoolDrive USB enclosures with PX-230 and PX-760 to an nvidia RAID MOBO but it takes Plextools to support C2 detection with dbpoweramp. it works fine for me with multiple instances of R12.

Phil - thought of checking to see if the third party Universal ATA drivers will address the nvidia raid chipset issue?

http://alter.org.ua/en/soft/win/uni_ata/

-brendan

pls1
04-22-2008, 06:17 PM
once I got the USB and eSATA working on my high performance business work stations I quit since I don't want anything really unusual on the work machines.

I have three other dedicated machines with the IDE cards or SATA interfaces.

I've stopped fiddling since after lots of wasted effort it all works and is networked.

Phil

KOF
04-23-2008, 09:38 AM
That is the problem, many enclosures do not allow the 'good stuff' such as c2. The trouble with a sticky FAQ is these things get out of date very quickly.

Ok but what about an external cd/dvd drive do i get all the good stuff?

I was also reading in cdRlabs that (708UF and 718UF) doesn't support c2 but only for those external drives - what about the other that you recommend spoon 712 uf?

Spoon
04-23-2008, 10:25 AM
I am not sure if the 712uf would provide c2 pointers.

KOF
04-23-2008, 11:55 AM
I am not sure if the 712uf would provide c2 pointers.

so wich of all PLEXTOR cd/dvd (external USB/firewire) would provide everthing.

caching: YES
Accurate Stream: YES
C2 Error Info: YES
FUA: yes

and others...

Nubben
04-25-2008, 04:20 AM
I have the Samsung SE-S204N which supports C2 pointers and does not cache audio. Works great.

PS. I am not willing to shell out the money for a Plextor - therefore the cheaper Samsung ($90).

pls1
04-25-2008, 10:25 AM
Nubben:

Would you please confirm that this Samsung uses the USB interface.

Thanks,

Phil

Nubben
04-25-2008, 10:46 AM
Phil,

Yes, it's a USB drive.

On a separate note for Mac users: it doesn't work using VMWare Fusion - the CD's just doesn't show up in dBpa.

I have created a Bootcamp partition and it works great when booting into Win. I have yet to try using Fusion utilising the Bootcamp partition though.

Hope this helps.

Nubben

KOF
04-25-2008, 02:01 PM
FUA is not used on 230a, any of the above you listed will be accepted.

Spoon:

Below are the technical information from my drive:


Manufacturer: OEM
CD Drive: CD-ROM F564E
Firmware: 2.00
Serial: BTC
Maximum Speed: 8467 KB/sec (x47)
Current Speed: 0 KB/sec (x0)
Spin-down After: 8 minutes
Buffer Size: 128 KB
Accurate Stream: Yes
C2 Error Pointers: Yes
Reads ISRC: Yes
Reads UPC: Yes

-----------------------
Sample offset: +12
Communication: [SCSI PASS TRHOUGH (SPT]

-----------------------

Secure Option:

Secure ripper is enabled.
Maximun Re-Reads: 34 times
Set Drive Speed: (Maximun)


*Drive Read Cache: (none)
Clear Read Cache with FUA is on
C2 Error Pointers for Error Detection is on

*When i clicked on "auto Detect icon" FUA AND C2 were the only ones that auto detect nothing for Read Cache:
------------------------

No here are my questions:

Is my drive configurated right?
Do I need to put any number in the "Drive Read Cache: (none)" like you said to the other user?
Do I need to buy a Plexter CD Drive? _ well this is an optional question..
PC info: emachine T3085 i also have a second drive (NEC DVD_RW ND 2500A] do you think because is this a brand name cd drive do i need to chose this instead?
I tried the Nec Drive but doesn't give me a C2 pointer, FUA, and Read Cache.

Thank you for all your help...

Spoon
04-25-2008, 03:01 PM
It is likely that the FUA test is afalse positive, AFAIK only plextors are FUA, so I would disable that and instate a cache size.

KOF
04-25-2008, 04:08 PM
It is likely that the FUA test is afalse positive, AFAIK only plextors are FUA, so I would disable that and instate a cache size.

Ok thanks..

So i have instate a cache size like how much? can you give the number?

also what about the other questions.
One more thing Why it's only doing Pass ripping 1 it should 2 right? I have 12.2

Spoon
04-26-2008, 07:47 AM
With C2 pointers on, there is no pass 2, unless you enable an ultra pass.

Try testing for the cache size, it should be around 580KB, setting 1024KB is a good safe one.

Porcus
04-26-2008, 08:18 AM
The answer is only probably. It depends on your MOBO and what other software you might have on your machine.

The only bullet proof way I have found to guarantee c2 detection is with a PCI bus IDE add in card and an an 80 wire IDE cable to an IDE drive set to master.

:sad: I have a PX-230A in shipment, and use a laptop ... so my question is: If I link it up by way of IDE-to-USB and test it with a scratched CD, and it detects some C2 errors -- will I then be certain that it will have full C2 support?

"None" is better than "limited", I guess.

Spoon
04-26-2008, 08:53 AM
Yes, if detects c2 (not right at start of search, but say in the middle) then c2 is working.

KOF
04-29-2008, 03:15 PM
Yes, if detects c2 (not right at start of search, but say in the middle) then c2 is working.

Spoon,
I'm planing to buy the internal CD drive from plextor "PLEXTOR 230A" and I found this site http://www.supermediastore.com/plextor-cd-standalone-tower-cd-duplicator-52-x-1-to-1.html?WT.mc_id=bizrateHDWHD-001-1615&utm_source=pcsite&utm_medium=campaign&utm_term=HD-001-1615&utm_campaign=cp_hdw_bizrate*description

can you click on it please. This is cool the Supermediastore CD Duplicator built-in Plextor PX-230A ....has PX-230A cd drive as its cd duplicator. and also has a USB/FireWire for pc connection. Do you think i buy one it will work with my pc connected throught an usb or firewire cable..?

Spoon
04-29-2008, 03:49 PM
I would not like to guess.

KOF
04-29-2008, 03:51 PM
I would not like to guess.

OMG... ok. but how do i find out. then..

vance43211
04-29-2008, 03:58 PM
you can alway take it out the box and put it in your computer

bhoar
04-29-2008, 03:58 PM
OMG... ok. but how do i find out. then..

No way to know other than to buy and test it out.

There isn't a useful compendium of which USB/firewire to IDE bridge chips behave adequately in terms of support for secure ripping and associated drive features (c2, cache clearing, etc.).

Also note that many stand-alone duplicators with a USB or firewire port only allow the computer access to *one* of the drives (e.g. for burning th emaster before a duplication run).

-brendan

bhoar
05-02-2008, 02:24 PM
Has anyone tried the external USB version of the Plexwriter Premium (10 out of 10 according to CDRLabs.com (http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=211&page=Features))?

Has anyone tried the 240A (2007)? How does it compare to the 230A?

Following up a few months later...

I'm curious on the px-240a vs. the px-230a topic as well. The px-230a, though discontinued, is still available for sale (I just found a stash for sale at deep discount), but I suspect one day the stocks will be out.

From pictures (it's hard to tell) it looks like the PX-240a units are more compact...which might be problematic as I'm planning to use them in robots...the more compact units tend to refuse to eject the tray far enough for automated use.

-brendan

Spoon
05-02-2008, 02:35 PM
The 240a is nothing like the 230a

bhoar
05-02-2008, 03:14 PM
The 240a is nothing like the 230a

Thanks, spoon. Looks like the 230a is the pinnacle for the moment, then.

-brendan

stealle
05-02-2008, 06:13 PM
I think the Samsung SH-203B is just as capable of a drive or better. It has C2 error, small offset (+6), no cache, Accurate Stream, HTOA capable. This is known to be one of the best DVD drives available right now according to many on cdfreaks.com

Only problem may be for some... this is a SATA drive. Just my .02

This is a nice reference to look up these features for most of the drives available today: http://daefeatures.co.uk/search.php

Spoon
05-03-2008, 02:24 AM
When it comes to DAE performance (extracting audio), many reviews are just plain wrong, it is difficult to test a drives DAE performance.

vance43211
05-11-2008, 10:43 PM
the drive that I used that had superior ripping for scratched cds was a Pioneer dvd ROM dvd-121r. If the face was black (gray) I'd get it back from my brother and put it in my computer.

bhoar
05-27-2008, 02:15 PM
No way to know other than to buy and test it out.

There isn't a useful compendium of which USB/firewire to IDE bridge chips behave adequately in terms of support for secure ripping and associated drive features (c2, cache clearing, etc.).

Working on it!

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=16917

-brendan

econocrat
03-12-2010, 03:17 AM
Hi,

My personal experience, with around 300 rips. I'm currently using Plextor PX-230A, a Samsung SH-S162L, a Lite-On 20A1P. I've tried quickly a Benq DW-1625, a Benq DW800A and a LG GCE-8160B.

I currently have not been able to fault the PX-230A, it just works great and its fast.

My opinion of the SH-S162L is that it is superb on scratches, maybe even better than the PX-230A, but it will give the occasional random undetected error on perfect CDs. Burst speed slower than the PX-230A, EAC secure speed about the same. It does not support lead-out, but that does not matter much as the offset is only 6.

My opinion of the 20A1P is that it's pretty good on scratches, just a notch below the other twos. But, like the SH-S162L, it it will give the occasional random undetected error on perfect CDs. Burst speed is faster than the SH-S162L, EAC secure mode twice slower. It does not support lead-out, but that does not matter much as the offset is only 6.

My opinion of the LG GCE-8160B is that it's not very good on scratches, and may give undetected errors. It was probably as fast as the SH-S162L. Newer LG may be different.

My opinion of the two Benq is that they are not very good with scratches (comparatively) and slow.

My personal opinion is that the key to accurate ripping is diversity. If the CD is not in the AccurateRip database, I rip it again on a drive from a different manufacturer and compare the CRCs (i.e. my personal AccurateRip).

Jean

I have installed a new Plex 230 in my SATA PC. This said I am no expert on computing. I want to ‘losslessly’ rip my CD library. Am told that C2 and especially the cache on the 230 must be off in order to know whether my rips are faultless:: The question may be stupid as I can find nothing about it on the web, but how does one turn off the cache on the Plex 230?

Spoon
03-12-2010, 03:56 AM
C2 should be on for a 230a, you need to enable cache invalidation in the program not the drive.

econocrat
03-12-2010, 04:13 AM
C2 should be on for a 230a, you need to enable cache invalidation in the program not the drive.

Thanks - I suppose that means Plextools. I don’t have but I saw a post that said they are available free online. Hope they are backwards compatible as the 230 must be 5yrs old.

Spoon
03-12-2010, 05:25 AM
Or in dbpoweramp

jax.pacs
05-23-2010, 12:46 AM
Hi, the drive mentioned here are mostly internal drives.
Any recommendation for a good external drive?
I use a notebook. After ready this forum, I wish to accurately rip my CDs collection.

Regards....Jax