Discussion of Automated CD Loaders [Archive]

bhoar

07-27-2007, 02:36 PM

Can anyone suggest a small/cheap robot that you can but your own drive (Plextor) in?

Note: comments below are completely ignorant about what robots and itnerfaces Spoon plans to implement.

The standard answer to this would be:

1. An MF-Digital Baxter (or the same unit by different vendors: Acronova Dupliq, Discmakers Pico, etc.). Holds 25 discs. Available retail for ~$600-$800 depending. Controlled using SDK which communicates with robot via USB (not serial). Drive is accessed via USB bridge, which can be unreliable (Prolific PL-2506?)

2. Primera Bravo SE DiscPublisher. Holds 20 discs, has built in disc printer. Available online for ~$1500. Do not confuse with the AutoPrinter, ~$1000, which does not come with a drive (and may be blocked from a custom installation work with one). Unsure of interface.

If you hadn't required the ability to swap drives, the answer to this would be:

1. A Sony VAIO XL1B1/XL1B2/XL1B3 200-disc changer. Granted, not really a robot, but they're priced better. The firewire control connection requires use of Windows Media Center, mtx command line client (a windows port is available), or custom "scsi" level calls. $150-$350, depending on where you find it. These are, essentially, re-badged Powerfile units with only a single non-swappable drive.

My approach is to scour ebay. Target your prices < $200 before shipping.

1. The primera composers (do not buy a conductor, it cannot easily be converted to use a drive) often go for very cheap and are serial controlled.

2. The RImage/Cedar DTP-1000 and DTP-4000 are often sold super cheap, but most are SCSI controlled. Before they EOL'd them, they were selling them for a short time with a firewire/serial interface instead (just like the replacement DTP-1500 and DTP-4500 units) with the addition of four internal firewire->atapi bridges. I verified (today) that the robot control board is the same, they just hooked up an unused serial port and disconnected the scsi port. Unfortunately, more investigation is needed with an older unit to know if there is a significant firmware change that allows for the serial control or if it the serial control always works and a "user-initiated" extension of the serial port would work for the scsi units.

Three cautions:

1. Warranty - some new unit warranties don't allow drive swaps without violating them.

2. Tray extension - make sure that any drive you plan to use inside a robot has a tray that pushes the "disc circle" out significantly clear of the drive faceplate. With the move to smaller form factor 5.25" optical drive housings, the trays often have a circle that doesn't clear the faceplate. Some drives will work with the faceplate removed, but some disc circles hardly even clear the casing, let alone the faceplate these days.

3. Retention clips - some tray circles have little nibs or clips meant to keep the disc from relocating off center and these would have to be removed (shaved or cut) for robot use.

enc123

07-27-2007, 05:34 PM

I am very excite to know that Illustrate is going to the batch ripping business. There are only one or two companies doing it and we as a pro ripping service company are having difficulites to get quality software tools.
Will AMG data be included in the pro ripping package? What will be the price for the meta data download?
We have MfDigital pro rippers (300CDs) and we would like to offer free beta test for your software. Please let us know how to contact you to get a beta version.

LtData

07-27-2007, 06:12 PM

I believe since automated ripping is included with Reference, the same conditions apply: 1-year of AMG access is included with your purchase and each additional year is $5.

enc123

07-27-2007, 06:44 PM

That's great. Do you know when it will be released? Do you need beta testers?

LtData

07-27-2007, 06:46 PM

The Batch Ripper, which is what will do the automated CD ripping, is being discussed here: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=13597 and has information regarding beta-testing. I know Spoon normally has Open beta testing for any user that wants to help. The post says about 8 weeks for the first beta.

Spoon

07-28-2007, 09:18 AM

We are in discussions again with MF Digital, see if we can get an SDK...

It will be an open beta test here in 8 weeks.

enc123

07-28-2007, 08:46 PM

MF Digital uses COM port to control the robot. Most commands are just single character. Do you have a plan to implement a common interface that can be used for most robots? We can do integration with MF Digital's driver if you have a common interface.

bhoar

07-29-2007, 12:25 AM

enc123 - which MFD units, in particular, does your business use?

-brendan

Spoon

07-29-2007, 03:35 AM

>MF Digital uses COM port to control the robot.

We can handle serial port stuff very easily, all their major robots are the same?

enc123

07-30-2007, 05:10 AM

Big pro ripper, which is based on scribe 9000.
We do not know if other robots use serial port too. MfDigital is the very popular one as it offers up to 3 years warranty. I would suggest Spoon to implement MfDigital first.

Does anyone use 8-CD tower? My guess is that the bottle neck is CPU, not I/O, so 8-CD may not offer more benefits vs. 2-Cd. But 8-CD is good for manual operation when jewel cases are involved.

Spies

08-01-2007, 03:48 PM

Just wanted to cast my vote for support of the Sony VAIO XL1B1/XL1B2/XL1B3 200-disc changer in dbpowerAMP.

Anything I can help with to see this happen?

Spoon

08-02-2007, 05:25 AM

Once the beta is out, if you can write simple scripts then you could implement it yourself...

EliC

09-03-2007, 09:04 PM

How about COMPOSER Optical Autoloaders?

Spoon

09-04-2007, 03:11 AM

Never heard of them :)

bhoar

09-04-2007, 07:52 AM

How about COMPOSER Optical Autoloaders?

Eli - one thing to remember: if the Primera autoloader doesn't have a drive installed and instead has a blank faceplate, it's a Primera Conductor, not a Composer. The Conductor is a printer autoloader and will not drop discs into a drive even if you install one.*

The firmware chip is the same as the composer firmware, but primera programed the unit to one of several profiles at the factory, and I still haven't worked out how to change that. It might involve one or more of the following:

1. Using the front panel keys in an unpublished pattern.
2. Invocations via the standard serial port.
3. Invocations via the secondary serial port (you may need to add a 4-pin header on some boards).
4. Using an in-circuit programmer on the 4-pin chip near the left side of the board to modify parameters.

Or, just stick to buying a Composer/Composer Pro unit.

-brendan

* A similar issue arises if you wish to install a second drive into a Composer - unless it is a Composer Pro, the robot arm won't go to the second drive, even if the firmware is the same.

EliC

09-04-2007, 05:19 PM

My dream feature setup
-plextor drive(s)
-room for multiple drives
-100+ spindle capacity
-ability to sort discs after rip into accurate rips and inaccurate rips (one source spindle and 2 destination spindles)
-USB or Firewire with full command passthrough/control including FUA and C2

EliC

09-09-2007, 08:28 PM

Other features I would like:
-ability to automatically re-rip discs without accuraterip entries or different pressings in a second drive (would need to install different drive models in robot)
-small camera on robot arm to photograph the disc being ripped

bhoar

09-09-2007, 11:22 PM

-small camera on robot arm to photograph the disc being ripped

Heh. Weibetech already repackaged the Baxter 25-disc device with a webcam,

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/Imager.php

...and then increased the price to $2400 (a $1600 forensics premium, well I guess you get some custom software too).

You could do the same, with some elbow grease, if spoon added the ability to run post-"Accept" (or pre-"Insert" depending on ease of camera placement) batch files.

-brendan

EliC

09-10-2007, 03:08 PM

Brendan,
Are parts available to consider building a ripper yourself? The cost of these "robots" seems outrageous. It doesnt have to look pretty, but I would imagine that it can be done.

bhoar

09-10-2007, 07:23 PM

Are parts available to consider building a ripper yourself? The cost of these "robots" seems outrageous. It doesnt have to look pretty, but I would imagine that it can be done.

Short answer: no, not unless you are a masochist. :)

IMHO, the best do-it-yourself approach would be to get the Sony XL1B (aka XL1B2 aka XL1B3) changer, which can be had for ~$200 from time to time. It's big, but you can pre-load 200 CDs. Then:

a) Lobby Spoon to support it the changer.
b) Use the MediumChanger GUI software, links can be found in the AVS Forum website.
and/or
c) Write your own batch files using the windows version of MTX (which now supports the XL1B series) and a command line ripper (perhaps db power amp, if all the features you need are supported at the command line).

-brendan

EliC

09-10-2007, 08:55 PM

One of my criteria is to be able to use a plextor drive

Spoon

09-13-2007, 10:36 AM

If you have a Sony XL1Bx email me please:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/email.htm

bhoar

10-30-2007, 09:09 PM

One of my criteria is to be able to use a plextor drive

So Eli, how's the hardware acquisition and rebuild going?

FYI, I've started up a wiki to document robotic command sets here

http://hyperdiscs.pbwiki.com/

Maybe you can help to fill this one in soon?

http://hyperdiscs.pbwiki.com/Command+Sets+--+Primera

:)

-brendan

EliC

10-31-2007, 06:21 PM

The package containing the guts of the robot (arm, control board...) was lost by fedex....

bhoar

10-31-2007, 10:38 PM

The package containing the guts of the robot (arm, control board...) was lost by fedex....

That would make me totally flip out.

-brendan

EliC

11-10-2007, 04:43 PM

I am working to aquire a new one since the original ComposerMax was lost by fedex. No worries as it was there fault, the shippent was insured, and my purchase price has been refunded.

I do plan to get a Primera Composer Max. Is there anyone that has used this with the current batch ripper? Are there any issues before implementation for this device will be complete?

bhoar

11-10-2007, 09:52 PM

Eli - At the current ebay prices, I haven't been able to justify adding one to my collection, so I don't have a Max unit here (just the Composer XL/Pro units).

I did, however, download the RoboPrint v1.3 utility (1.3 is for Composer-Max, 2.0 is for ADL-Max) and used Portmon to find that it seeks the robot by sending "_SV" and "_MOVE:S" on the serial port (not sure of the speed yet). This indicates to me that the command set for the Max is probably different from the Composer XL/Pro units (though it seems to share a common heritage, as "SV" is shared).

I suspect you're the only present (or technically...future) owner of one on the forum (so far), so you might be the one experimenting with the RoboPrint/Filemon combination (and later, hyperterminal) to document the command set.

-brendan

CBQ

12-09-2007, 05:28 PM

bhoar

12-09-2007, 06:53 PM

Spoon listed experimental support for the Rimage DTP. I think those came in two different models. One model had a SCSI interface and the other model was Firewire (with a serial port maybe?).

Is the experimental support for both models or just one?

Also curious about multiple robots connected to one system. I have seen bhoar's youtube video and it is amazing. Kudos brendan.

Are there any limitations on multiple robots connected to one computer? Can I connect two USB robots, and one SCSI robot, and two Firewire robots to the same computer?

Re: DTP serial units - I support only the serial-connected (w/ firewire) ones for now. And even then, prepare to be disappointed. From my testing, the pickers on DTP units cannot handle much variance in hub-type and thickness. After five or so audio CDs, the two DTP units I tested almost invariably got stuck trying to pick because by that point the top two CDs in the input stack had somewhat "complementary" hub styles that the picker fingers can't grab between. I think the DTP units were engineered for the hub-type of blank CD-Rs in the late 90s...and are just not a great tool for random audio CD picking. It's possible the units I tested were defective or badly adjusted?

Re: DTP SCSI units. I might end up try to support for them via the debug connector on the robot controller board. Maybe. Not sure how well that will work out, though. But really, as above, I currently doubt they're useful for CD ripping.

Re: multiple robots

There's no multiple device limitation in spoon's batch ripper. You associate each drive with the right device and provide the correct command line options in the batch config (if necessary - e.g. for serial-based ones you'd need to provide the com port(s)).

There are some limitations related to the devices, however, and those relate to the manufacturer's drivers, firmware, etc.

1. Sony Changers (firewire using a somewhat broken scsi changer interface) - I seem to recall hearing about issues with addressing multiple units in windows, so you might be limited to one of those at a time (due to a bug in the changer device firmware - I suspect that under some circumstances, it thinks it should talk to the drive inside the next changer device instead of the one inside it's own). This might be remedied by not chaining them and, instead, putting them on separate firewire buses.

2. Minicubis/Baxter/DupliQ/Pico units (proprietary USB driver) - last I heard, they too were limited to one unit per system, due to driver issues. a future device driver revision from datatronics might remedy this. Note that the datatronics driver documentation seems to show support for multiple units, I suspect they just haven't properly implemented it.

3. Serial-connected changers (mf-digital, discmakers, mediatechnics, amtren, etc.) - at least two devices, probably more. The serial library I use only allows two open devices at a time. However, each serial port is in use for only a short while. I'd need to experiment more to see if there's going to be a problem with more than 2 units.

On the plus side, I doubt there'd be a problem using several manual load drives, a baxter, a sony changer and two serial robots all at once.

Caveat: It's all experimental, no guarantees. e.g. my drivers still don't do the right thing at the end of a batch at the moment.

-brendan

CBQ

12-10-2007, 12:30 AM

Re: DTP serial units - I support only the serial-connected (w/ firewire) ones for now. And even then, prepare to be disappointed. From my testing, the pickers on DTP units cannot handle much variance in hub-type and thickness. After five or so audio CDs, the two DTP units I tested almost invariably got stuck trying to pick because by that point the top two CDs in the input stack had somewhat "complementary" hub styles that the picker fingers can't grab between. I think the DTP units were engineered for the hub-type of blank CD-Rs in the late 90s...and are just not a great tool for random audio CD picking. It's possible the units I tested were defective or badly adjusted?

Re: DTP SCSI units. I might end up try to support for them via the debug connector on the robot controller board. Maybe. Not sure how well that will work out, though. But really, as above, I currently doubt they're useful for CD ripping.

Re: multiple robots

There's no multiple device limitation in spoon's batch ripper. You associate each drive with the right device and provide the correct command line options in the batch config (if necessary - e.g. for serial-based ones you'd need to provide the com port(s)).

There are some limitations related to the devices, however, and those relate to the manufacturer's drivers, firmware, etc.

1. Sony Changers (firewire using a somewhat broken scsi changer interface) - I seem to recall hearing about issues with addressing multiple units in windows, so you might be limited to one of those at a time (due to a bug in the changer device firmware - I suspect that under some circumstances, it thinks it should talk to the drive inside the next changer device instead of the one inside it's own). This might be remedied by not chaining them and, instead, putting them on separate firewire buses.

2. Minicubis/Baxter/DupliQ/Pico units (proprietary USB driver) - last I heard, they too were limited to one unit per system, due to driver issues. a future device driver revision from datatronics might remedy this. Note that the datatronics driver documentation seems to show support for multiple units, I suspect they just haven't properly implemented it.

3. Serial-connected changers (mf-digital, discmakers, mediatechnics, amtren, etc.) - at least two devices, probably more. The serial library I use only allows two open devices at a time. However, each serial port is in use for only a short while. I'd need to experiment more to see if there's going to be a problem with more than 2 units.

On the plus side, I doubt there'd be a problem using several manual load drives, a baxter, a sony changer and two serial robots all at once.

Caveat: It's all experimental, no guarantees. e.g. my drivers still don't do the right thing at the end of a batch at the moment.

-brendan

Well this stinks. I just purchased a used Rimage DTP 4000. And it is the SCSI model. I guess I am doubly screwed. It has a worthless/fickle picker and the SCSI interface is unsupported. :(

Do either you or Spoon need a SCSI Rimage DTP 4000 to experiment with?

Brendan, I have read your wiki and the majority of the threads here, but I am new to cd ripping so please bear with me. Please tell me if my understanding is correct.

There are two primary interfaces when ripping with robotics.
1. The data interface for the music/rip
2. The control interface for the robotics and drive

Currently, if I understand you correctly, only firewire and serial are supported for the robotics control interface? No USB or SCSI support for the robotics?

As for the data interface, on your wiki your write -
"USB limitations on ATA/ATAPI command support, including examples where you would likely run into problems.
USB (mis)handling of unusual calls (e.g. for secure ripping)
USB (and firewire) problems with secure CD ripping/damaged discs."

I am assuming you are referring to the data interface. But now that I read it again, perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps you are referring to the control interface via USB???

I had really hoped to do secure ripping with a robotic setup. Is this not possible?

CBQ

bhoar

12-10-2007, 07:21 AM

Well this stinks. I just purchased a used Rimage DTP 4000. And it is the SCSI model. I guess I am doubly screwed. It has a worthless/fickle picker and the SCSI interface is unsupported. :(

Don't feel too bad. I've got three of the SCSI DTP-4000s and three of the SCSI DTP-1000s. :(

On the SCSI-only models, if you can hack together your own RS-232 serial cable and connect it to the four pin test connector on the control board, you can try using something like the following and see if it works "well enough":

Suggestion 9: RImage DTP-800/DTP-1000/DTP-4000 Older SCSI using debug port serial connection (double check speed) - UNTESTED

Pre-Batch.exe --drive=G --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --close --command=MU --bindresetall --sleep=2
Load.exe --drive=G --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --close --command=CR --command=OI --command=MD --command=R --command=MU --open --command=MD --command=P --command=MU --close --sleep=10
Unload.exe --drive=G --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --open --command=CR --command=CI --command=MD --command=R --command=MU --close --command=MD --command=P --command=MU
Reject.exe --drive=G --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --open --command=CR --command=MD --command=R --command=MU --close --command=OR --command=MD --command=P --command=MU --command=CR
Post-Batch.exe --drive=G --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --close --command=MU

Do either you or Spoon need a SCSI Rimage DTP 4000 to experiment with?

I'm good.

Brendan, I have read your wiki and the majority of the threads here, but I am new to cd ripping so please bear with me. Please tell me if my understanding is correct.

There are two primary interfaces when ripping with robotics.
1. The data interface for the music/rip
2. The control interface for the robotics and drive

Currently, if I understand you correctly, only firewire and serial are supported for the robotics control interface? No USB or SCSI support for the robotics?

The DTP series came in two flavors: the older SCSI models and the newer firewire+serial models. The older SCSI models used SCSI for both the data (drive) interface as well as the control (robot) interface over a single cable. The newest DTP units used a combination of firewire for the data (ATAPI drives with firewire bridgeboards) and serial for the control (robot) (two cables).

Note that the robot control board inside the unit always had both a SCSI and serial connector. Unfortunately, only the later revisions that used serial for the command interface had a "robust" control language available via serial.

USB was never used on any of the DTP models (neither drive or robot).

As for the data interface, on your wiki your write -
"USB limitations on ATA/ATAPI command support, including examples where you would likely run into problems.
USB (mis)handling of unusual calls (e.g. for secure ripping)
USB (and firewire) problems with secure CD ripping/damaged discs."

I am assuming you are referring to the data interface. But now that I read it again, perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps you are referring to the control interface via USB???

I'm talking about the data (drive) interface. USB to ATAPI bridge chipsets are notoriously bad when it comes to secure ripping. Firewire to ATAPI bridge chipsets are less bad.

I had really hoped to do secure ripping with a robotic setup. Is this not possible?

It sure is. Using a firewire to ATAPI bridge is probably the best bet.

-brendan

CBQ

12-11-2007, 01:19 AM

Thank you Brendan. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.

CBQ

bhoar

12-27-2007, 09:54 PM

Spoon,

Eli has been interested in having the batch ripper support more than just a binary (accepted/rejected) output decision via unload/reject.

I can foresee ways that I could handle that directly in the ULCLI for certain loaders. e.g., if the disc's metadata, accuraterip and secure "status" information is passed via flags, I've got some ideas on how to use that information for rip result specific filing of discs in some of the robotic loaders that allow for explicit stack addressing.

e.g., I'd like to see something like one of the following three approaches implemented:

Idea *1:
--metadatafound=true/false true if match was found and used
--accurateripfound=true/false true if disc was found in accuraterip
--accuratelyripped=true/false true if all tracks were AR verified
--securelyripped=true/false true if all tracks were AR verified *or* if none were, all were securely ripped.
alternately to deal with a result where it's Ok if 8 of 10 were AR and 2 were secure...
true if all tracks were either AR verified *or* were securely ripped.
Idea *2:
--metadatafound=true/false
--accurateripfound=true/false
--accurateripstatus=all/some/none
--secureripstatus=all/some/none

Idea *3:
--metadatafound=true/false
--accurateripfound=true/false
--totaltracks=*
--accuratetracks=*
--securetracks=*

-brendan

bhoar

12-28-2007, 04:40 PM

I'd like to see something like one of the following three approaches implemented...

Or, if you have a better idea, let us know. :)

-brendan

Spoon

12-29-2007, 04:48 PM

I will have to add to the wishlist for R2 of Batch Ripper, that section of the code has been frozen for full release (in a couple of weeks).

bhoar

12-29-2007, 09:09 PM

I will have to add to the wishlist for R2 of Batch Ripper, that section of the code has been frozen for full release (in a couple of weeks).

Ok, I understand. If you want to get together to reexamine (here or via email) at a later time, just let me know.

I'll continue on my ulcli coding concentrating on the areas of more sane pre-batch and post-batch behavior, plus better device error handling.

-brendan

EliC

03-26-2008, 09:11 AM

Brendan,

Just wondering if you have any status updates on ulcli 1.0?

bhoar

03-26-2008, 09:48 AM

Brendan,

Just wondering if you have any status updates on ulcli 1.0?

Getting there, up to internal release v0.92.

In general work has been progressing, but I've done no coding work in the last eight or nine days for several reasons. Some of them are general day to day stuff (work and family obligations), but others are related to prepping my home office for heavy duty testing of the ULCLI with large capacity robots. In other words, things that need to be done in order for code testing before release.

-brendan.

dastrix

03-30-2008, 07:45 PM

Hi Guys

I am looking to do large scale ripping with some software just like this, in terms of change/auto loader support which hardware device would be best for use here? Assuming I use the batch ripper software

Thanks
kris

bhoar

04-18-2008, 06:54 PM

An update on robotics...

At the moment I have three cd/dvd robots sitting on my desk right now, performing exercises of the the ULCLI scripts all called by one instance of the batch ripper, testing the new ULCLI features and the scripts that implement them. All three robots (A discmakers micro ultra, a kodak kiosk unit and a Primera Composer Pro) use different command sets, yet are working under one instance of the batch ripper...

I feel a bit like Zorg, heh: "...look at all these little things, so busy now..."

(referring to this scene: http://youtube.com/watch?v=krcNIWPkNzA )

I should probably watch what I eat tonight.

Off to the treadmill and, later, BSG!

-brendan

bhoar

04-29-2008, 03:55 PM

I am looking to do large scale ripping with some software just like this, in terms of change/auto loader support which hardware device would be best for use here? Assuming I use the batch ripper software

kris,

Sorry, I missed your post last month.

I think for large scale ripping, the contemporary MF-Digital and Mediatechnics 250 to 900 disc robots (see their sites) work very well. For reliable secure ripping, it may be necessary to change the connectivity arrangements from their typical method of firewire to SATA or IDE (which may interfere with the primary purpose of the robot).

Note that they both do sell their robots not just as duplicators but also with third party software (from ripfactory, GD3 and one other source) that can also be used for ripping. I'd call them up and find out their current hardware specs and package prices.

All,

I've been testing the dbpa batch ripper with several of the Mediatechnics multi-drive robots and the driver I worked on is now rock solid.

If anyone out there would like to test a pre-release of the second revision of the mf-digital or mediatechnics drivers, please drop me a PM (or email me brendandothoar@gmailDOTcom replacing "dot" with a period symbol) and let me know which hardware you have of the three listed on this page:

http://hyperdiscs.pbwiki.com/Hardware%20--%20Mediatechnics

If your hardware is under another brand name, but looks like one of those, please feel free to contact me about that as well.

-brendan

jredmond

05-15-2008, 11:11 PM

I have an older Primera Bravo and can not get the program to operate the loader.

Any plans for the older models?

BTW, I think this will be a great program!

Thanks!!! James

bhoar

05-15-2008, 11:28 PM

I don't think there is (yet) support for the Bravo line - those require use of the Primera SDK to operate via their proprietary USB driver. Perhaps you can ask spoon to look into what it would require to support the units?

-brendan

Spoon

05-16-2008, 05:39 AM

We have the SDK so can create a driver in the next 4 weeks, please email:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/email.htm

bhoar

05-16-2008, 08:33 AM

We have the SDK so can create a driver in the next 4 weeks, please email:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/email.htm

Cool, I've got a Bravo (I) to test too. :)

-brendan

EliC

05-16-2008, 12:53 PM

Have they provided an SDK or any additional info for the composer max? After getting a new PC I need to see about getting a new motherboard for mine - I think the serial chip? is dead :-(

bhoar

05-16-2008, 01:25 PM

Have they provided an SDK or any additional info for the composer max? After getting a new PC I need to see about getting a new motherboard for mine - I think the serial chip? is dead :-(

The current Primera low-level SDK (PTRobot) documentation doesn't explicitly say the ComposerMax is supported, however, it does have defines related to this unit:

4.4 Robot Type
*define ROBOT_DISCPUBLISHER 0 // Disc Publisher I
*define ROBOT_DISCPUBLISHERII 1 // Disc Publisher II
*define ROBOT_DISCPUBLISHERPRO 2 // Disc Publisher PRO
*define ROBOT_COMPOSERMAX 3 // ComposerMAX
*define ROBOT_RACKMOUNT_DPII 4 // Disc Publisher XR
*define ROBOT_DISCPUBLISHER_XRP 5 // Disc Publisher XRP
*define ROBOT_DISCPUBLISHER_SE 6 // Disc Publisher SE

In addition, there are concepts of drive "row" and "column" listed in the API which, in my book, only apply to the ComposerMax units.

So, yes it looks like the PTRobot SDK should support the hardware.

In addition, you may also want to try the beta ULCLI drivers that I sent to you, if and when the machine is working again. Since the ComposerMax was one of the last serial-based robots in their lineup, before the Bravo (read "Disc Publisher") series was released, it can be supported via the ULCLI.

-brendan

EliC

05-16-2008, 06:12 PM

I am building a new PC (because of problems w/ my current PC) and need to get a new serial cable. If that does not solve the problem I need to see if they will sell me a new motherboard. I cannot afford to have them work on the unit.

malcolm_reynold

05-30-2008, 12:06 PM

Hi all. I've been using the reference release for a few weeks now and am quite impressed. I've ripped a hundred or so CD's and am about to embark on the rest of my collection of 800. I'm thinking that it's probably not worth buying an auto-loader, but it'd be great to have a collection of drives such as a CD server tower.

Does anyone have any experience with these towers or recommendations for models? I was considering an HP Surestore Tower such as:
http://shopper.cnet.com/network-storage/hp-surestore-cd-rom/4014-3382_9-32540738.html

Also, in regard to towers and the batch ripper, I'm hoping that I can use this workflow:
1) load a group of disks
2) confirm the meta information for each one with perfectmeta
3) rip the disks while i do something else
4) come back and confirm accuraterip and secure rip results
5) rinse & repeat

Does anyone know if that's possible and, if not, is there a way to use perfectmeta after the fact to correct bad tags?

Thanks in advance.

bhoar

05-30-2008, 12:35 PM

Malcolm,

[I'll skip commenting on the process (steps 1 - 5) and comment only on hardware.]

I'd avoid buying a pre-made tower, as almost all of those are set up for either automated duplication or for CD/DVD sharing over a network (such as the unit you pointed to) in which case the drives only talk directly to an on-board purpose-built controller board. Neither genre of optical tower are set up to connect multiple drives directly to a host computer, which is what the batch ripper, like most rippers, expects to see.

If you still want to use multiple manually loaded drives, my recommendation would be one of three scenarios:

1. Assemble a purpose built computer with six or more externally-facing half-heigh 5.25" drive bays filled with optical drives, which you could then connect directly to the motherboard (ATA or SATA) or additional PCI cards (ATA or SATA). Finding the right case, in the right price range, can be troublesome.

2. Obtain a relatively cheap four to eight-bay external drive enclosure, fill it with optical drives and add the appropriate number of USB or firewire bridge boards, then connect that to your existing computer. Again, finding the right enclosure, in the right price range, can be troublesome.

3. Attach several external optical drives (via firewire or USB) in single drive enclosures to your current computer.

[And finally: both firewire and USB generally work. To take advantage of some of the rip-quality enhancing features of dbpoweramp, you'd want to enable C2 if your drive supports it. At the moment, that only works via ATA/SATA and some USB bridge chipsets. I suspect within a couple of months it will work with firewire as well, but there's no official timeline for that.]

-brendan

Spoon

05-30-2008, 03:31 PM

Everything you mention can be done in batch ripper, infact for ease of ripping (if it is secure results you want to watch out for), in CD Ripper >> Options >> Secure Settings >> switch on the option to mark the track as error if insecure. Then any insecure discs will make its way to the reject column in batch ripper.

malcolm_reynold

05-31-2008, 10:01 AM

Brendan-
Thanks for the advice. I had mistakenly assumed those servers would reveal the drives to the host OS... So I'll put a collection of drives together along the lines of one of your suggestions and if that proves to be more work than its worth, I'll invest in an autoloader and go from there.

Spoon-
Thanks for the clarification. Could you further clarify whether it's possible to use perfectmeta after the fact? It's the best tool I've seen (by far) for tagging, but I still tend to fix a tag or two on about 6 out of 10 disks. For me, accuraterip/secure rip results are the most important, but good tags are a close second. I'm ripping to FLAC and will batch convert later for my portables, so I'd like to have the ripping/tagging part done so I don't have to think about it ever again. (I spent about 6 weeks googling, lurking here and at HA, and experimenting with EAC, CDparanoia, iTunes, etc, before settling on dbpa. I feel like I'm on the cusp of being ready to rip nearly a thousand disks before I pile them into boxes and throw them in the attic).

In a perfect world, I'd use an autoloader to batch rip my whole collection and have it only notify me of accuraterip and/or secure errors, then I'd leisurely make my way through the metatag quagmire. In terms of workflow separating an insecure rip into a reject pile to deal with later is easy, but incorrect metatags generally take a little bit of brain time so I've found it's difficult to do something else productively while ripping.

Thanks again for taking the time to get back to me. The vitality of this forum was a part of my decision to use dbpa (though now that I've ripped 100 or so disks, I have to admit I'd be using it even if this forum didn't exist).

Spoon

05-31-2008, 02:30 PM

PerfectMeta can currently only be used when Ripping, not after.

dasgeek

06-05-2008, 05:50 PM

I am considering purchasing dbpoweramp. I have been researching this for over a year. I am planning on ripping my entire CD collection of 3500 discs to FLAC format. I got a PowerFile last year an came across this program last fall. I have been waiting to see if the batch ripper will work. I have read most of the forum postings. I know some have had issues with PowerFiles.

I have a PowerFile C200-RAM unit (black with aluminum face). When I turn the unit on it displays version 4.0.2 (I assume the firmware version).

Do you think this unit will work. I want to rip my discs to individual FLAC files.

Thanks for your help.

bhoar

06-05-2008, 06:39 PM

IIRC, supposedly the Sony XL1B changer driver should work with at least one drive of Powerfile C200 units.

Download the trial, the beta of the batch ripper and the sony changer driver (the latter two from this subform's stickies) and find out...

-brendan

PlanetMongo

06-27-2008, 06:16 PM

Just a check-in... Any plans for Plasmon D120 support? :)

I'd love to get rid of this PointSoft stuff and go with a "one software" package rip->encode setup. :D

EliC

06-27-2008, 06:25 PM

bhoar

06-27-2008, 06:32 PM

Just a check-in... Any plans for Plasmon D120 support? :)

I'd love to get rid of this PointSoft stuff and go with a "one software" package rip->encode setup. :D

I doubt spoon has plans to write device-specific drivers for industrial medium changers.

On the off-chance, it might be worth trying to see if the Sony XL1B driver works? The sony and the plasmon are both medium changer devices and the whole idea of this device class was to abstract all the IO calls to make them all work almost the same. Of course, Powerfile and Sony deviated a bit from the standard (as do most medium changer manufacturers) so sometimes one set of code works for your equipment, sometimes some tweaks are required.

-brendan

bhoar

06-27-2008, 06:33 PM

Brendan, did you ever get your composermax? I am waiting for a new serial cable. Primera talked me into trying a new cable before buying a new board, though I will be shocked if the cable is actually the problem. I figure since the robotics all seem to work fine and respond correctly the the front panel buttons, and the disc drives all work the only thing left is the main board.

No, still waiting for mine to arrive. I ended up having to pay $200 shipping, instead of the $50 on the original invoice (annoying because it only put me over my "limit" after I'd paid the initial auction payment).

So, I guess they're still working out the freight details? It's been over a week since we worked it all out, I should give them a call.

-brendan

stevek1006

07-05-2008, 11:04 AM

bhoar

07-05-2008, 01:50 PM

So now that batch has gone final I am seriously considering buying a small auto loader to re-rip ~4000 cds to FLAC. Does anyone have any recommendations or thoughts. I am currently thinking about either the Baxter or the MicroOrbit. The MicroOrbit looks nice because of the fewer moving parts and and the higher capacity (50 vs 25). I am fairly ignorant about auto loaders, am certainly open to any other suggestions. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

For batch ripper used, I'd recommend unit in the following order if used in good working condition or new (recommendation weighs disc capacity and multiple drives heavily, otherwise I'd push the 100-disc composer units down a bit in the list):

1. Primera Composer Pro: 100 discs, two drives. Mechanism isn't fast as others (and can be a bit finicky), but having two drives is a definite bonus. Preferably a firewire, not SCSI model, as the latter requires you building in firewire/USB interfaces yourself and is also likely to be pretty ancient (older = more chance the unit has had a long hard life). Includes input, output and reject locations. Primera Composer family units (applies to similar units below) often show up in untrustworthy condition on ebay so only spring for it if it is guaranteed in good working order.

2. Primera Composer XL. 100 discs, but only one drive. Otherwise just like Composer Pro.

3. Discmakers Elite Micro, Discmakers Micro Ultra, Amtren Flexwriter 1 (I?), Ripstation 7601X. All the same unit hardware-wise. Depending on generation, this may be a 60-disc or more rarely a 75-disc unit, with one drive. Includes input, output and reject locations. Some used units may need the controller-to-arm cable replaced if there are transient open connections causing disc drops (relatively easy to do, it's heavy duty telephone cable). With that said, mechanism is less finicky than Composer family units. Input bin spikes can be moved on some units to accommodate a stack of mini-cds. A true classic.

4. Kodak Kiosk or Microboards MicroOrbit. These are also built like a tank (e.g. the Kodak Kiosk unit is perfect for retail use, unlike any other robots mentioned). Some reports of extra-thick discs (e.g. non-standard dual sided disc with DVD on one side and CD on the other) causing the units to get stuck.

4a. Kodak Kiosk unit based on Microboards MicroOrbit design.
A 50-disc unit. Only one output pile option, so Rejects and Unloads both go into the same pile. Comes wired with a USB to serial and USB to IDE bridge so no hardware tweaking necessary. Hard to come by (these are always retail operation surplus units), I can ask around to my sources if you are interested.

4b. Microboards MicroOrbit. As above, but instead of being wired for use as a computer peripheral it comes as an integrated duplicator without any IO intefaces, you would need to open it up, gut it a bit and/or bypass the duplication controller and install your own USB to IDE bridge (and potentially a USB to serial converter). If you're not interested in wiring your own serial cable and breaking the duplicator functionality, then look for the Kodak unit above instead.

5. Primera Composer. 50 discs, one drive. Otherwise just like Composer Pro.

6. MF-Digital Baxter aka Datatronics Minicubis (the OEM for all of them) aka Mediatechnics Fusion X aka Acronova DupliQ aka Discmakers Pico aka Ripstation 7601, etc. A bit limited: only 25 discs per load, unit is a bit fragile and due to driver limitations, only one connected to a computer at a time. On the plus side, it does have a separate output space for Rejects, but unfortunately it drops them "over the back shoulder" which isn't nice for precious CDs. Only unit that can handle both mini-cds and business-card cds out of the box.

---

There are some newer units out there that I might investigate if they start appearing at drastically cut prices on ebay (discmakers forte or aleratec roboracer), but I cannot recommend them now because a) I don't know if they are "serial controlled" which my driver set requires and b) if they are, a driver script would need to be written.

-brendan

PS - keep in mind that as it stands right now, R13 does not support C2 over firewire and many of the above come configured for firewire. Hopefully R13.1 may resolve this, spoon says he's working on the issue.

bhoar

07-05-2008, 01:52 PM

No, still waiting for mine to arrive. I ended up having to pay $200 shipping, instead of the $50 on the original invoice (annoying because it only put me over my "limit" after I'd paid the initial auction payment).

So, I guess they're still working out the freight details? It's been over a week since we worked it all out, I should give them a call.

As per the other thread, the composer max arrived and the driver is now in a working state. Please see the Batch Ripper initial post if you wish to acquire the driver for the composer max.

-brendan

Spoon

07-05-2008, 02:56 PM

bhoar

07-05-2008, 03:09 PM

>does have a separate output space for Rejects, but unfortunately it drops them "over the back shoulder" which isn't nice for precious CDs

You could put a bin next to the table so they go straight into the trash ;)

Heh. That is probably what the original designers thought as well, since it was engineered as a duplicator - rejects *are* trash. :)

Of course, you could coat the area behind the arm with felt to lessen the potential scratchiness of the over-the-shoulder reject style. I never did, since my first run through my own (small) collection was with a dupliq a couple years back (with riptastic and a custom loader batch file) and I hadn't thought about the handling issue.

-brendan

bhoar

07-06-2008, 12:58 PM

1. One of the nice things about the Batch Ripper is that it "farms out" all automation duties to plug-in drivers on a drive-by-drive basis. This allows you to mix and match automation devices. I've already shown my drivers (ULCLI based) operating two robots from two different manufacturers in parallel.

But even if you only have one robot, you can benefit from this. For example, spoon has elsewhere posted the PX-230a drives are good for trying to recover data from difficult discs, while PX-708 drives may be a better all-purpose drive. So, fill a 4-drive robot with PX-708 drives, configure them with the robot, and then attach one or two PX-230a drives as manually loaded drives. Configure them accordingly. When you launch the batch ripper, enable all five or six drives.

During the batch, you can check every hour or so and extract rejected discs (clean them if necessary) and load them into the manual-load PX-230a drives *while the batch is running*.

2. Another benefit of the batch ripper approach is that it doesn't care how many drives you assign to a particular robot, even if the robot is not expandable. This gave me an idea of something to try. For example, say you have a one-drive robot* like the Amtren Flexwriter I (aka Discmakers Elite Micro/Micro Ultra aka Ripstation 7601X) and you also have a two or four drive manual load external "tower". Assuming you could position the two units just right, the drives present opened trays with proper load/unload clearance, and you removed the tray-end if necessary, you might be able to get the one-drive robot to reliably also work the tower drives, not just the built in drive! That one drive robot becomes a three or five drive robot...

Note that I have not tried this yet. Some device firmware "cares" about what tray height it encounters the drive tray at, but based on some experiments earlier this year I think this particular one-drive robot (amtren/discmakers/7601x) would work.

3. Similar to *2 above, but dealing with robots that care about tray height (Primera Composer, Composer XL, Composer Pro), you'd have to limit yourself to placing a drive/drives right at the same pick location as the drive(s) in the unit, but facing opposite the unit's drive(s). An additional concern would be that you'd also need to immobilize the external drive, since it wouldn't be in a massive tower and would be easy to jostle out of alignment. Still you could double the drive number (two for Composer/Composer XL, four for Composer Pro).

-brendan

* the baxter/minicubis/pico/dupliq/7601(no x) units not included due to the different API (not ulcli).

EliC

07-06-2008, 03:31 PM

You could always add a 5th drive to the composermax at the cd printer position. The robot does not know or care if its a printer or a cd drive.

bhoar

07-06-2008, 03:44 PM

You could always add a 5th drive to the composermax at the cd printer position. The robot does not know or care if its a printer or a cd drive.

Yes, if you place the drive at the right height properly...but in this case you might also need to adjust the command line scripting to support it, since it isn't in a normal drive position. I don't think it would require any code changes to the ULCLI, as long as you weren't planning to use multiple drivebank= values (code is currently limited to 1 and 2) and set drivebank=1 for all drives (since the printer position interferes with both banks).

stevek1006

07-08-2008, 10:03 AM

For batch ripper used, I'd recommend unit in the following order ...

Brendan: Thanks for the information, it is extremely helpful. A couple of quick questions. For those devices that do not have a reject pile, I assume the batch ripper will produce a report so that I can easily determine which discs were rejected. Second, concerning the Baxter, I assume it would be relatively easy to build something to safely catch the rejects if I ended up going the route. Thanks again.

-Steve

bhoar

07-08-2008, 10:13 AM

Brendan: Thanks for the information, it is extremely helpful. A couple of quick questions. For those devices that do not have a reject pile, I assume the batch ripper will produce a report so that I can easily determine which discs were rejected.

Yes.

Second, concerning the Baxter, I assume it would be relatively easy to build something to safely catch the rejects if I ended up going the route.

Yes. I'd probably just cut up an old t-shirt to fit the reject drop area on the baxter-type unit as well as the table area next to it and affix it to the unit.

-brendan

stevek1006

07-24-2008, 07:01 AM

Yes. I'd probably just cut up an old t-shirt to fit the reject drop area on the baxter-type unit as well as the table area next to it and affix it to the unit.

I got my hands on an Acronova DupliQ. It works pretty well. I attached a thin piece of foam just above the output tray edge and used your t-shirt idea to make a little slide where they land on another piece of foam. So far, so good.

My only complaint is that the Pioneer drive seems to have difficulty reading discs. I get a lot of "Secure (warning)" messages on discs that have no problems with my desktop setup. I may try to swap the drive later today and see if that helps. Otherwise, the batch ripper is the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!

Thanks again, Brendan & Spoon!

-Steve

bhoar

07-24-2008, 04:18 PM

I got my hands on an Acronova DupliQ. It works pretty well. I attached a thin piece of foam just above the output tray edge and used your t-shirt idea to make a little slide where they land on another piece of foam. So far, so good.

My only complaint is that the Pioneer drive seems to have difficulty reading discs. I get a lot of "Secure (warning)" messages on discs that have no problems with my desktop setup. I may try to swap the drive later today and see if that helps. Otherwise, the batch ripper is the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!

Thanks again, Brendan & Spoon!

You're quite welcome (well for the advice part which was my contribution :) ).

I seem to recall that spoon said pioneer drives don't have very good C2 support, perhaps that's what you're seeing?

As usual with drive replacements, make sure you're going to be able to put the original drive back in correctly positioned, just in case. And also make sure to dremel or cut down any of the little disc-holding-clips in the tray, they can interfer with picks and places.

If you plan to use the duplicator for the original purposes, some duplication software (if you use it) will ignore drives not on a whitelist, though this probably isn't an issue for the dupliq as it uses Nero IIRC. e.g. I replaced a dead Pioneer with a Hitachi drive in a six-drive mediatechnics duplicator robot, which works fine for testing, but the mf-digital scribe software ignores that replacement drive.

-brendan

sonyman

08-05-2008, 09:01 AM

Hello,
i need a Robotic Driver for my Rimage DTP 800 /RAS6 (FW+Serial)
and a wire plan for serial cable.

Thanks for your support!

bhoar

08-05-2008, 09:05 AM

Hello,
i need a Robotic Driver for my Rimage DTP 800 /RAS6 (FW+Serial)
and a wire plan for serial cable.

Thanks for your support!

Can you point me to documentation on the command set for this unit (I suspect it may differ from the other DTP models)?

I have a page for serial-based DTP units here:

http://hyperdiscs.pbwiki.com/Command+Sets+--+RImage

It assumes the DTP-800 works like the DTP-1000 and DTP-4000. Can you use hyperterminal to validate that info for me?

-brendan

sonyman

08-05-2008, 11:14 AM

Dear Brendan,
i have connetet the DTP 800 with my PC via Telnet.
Only working setting is:9600 8n1 /none. Only one Command " I <Enter>" gives CC40828
all others --> "IC"
How can i reed the SW Version?

Thanks Bastian

bhoar

08-05-2008, 11:24 AM

Do you have software that allows you to monitor the serial ports?

e.g. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896644.aspx

One way to document the command set is to set up portmon (or a similar utility) to monitor the serial port and then run applications that are known to be compatible such as RImage's duplication software.

You can use the information in the portmon logs to document the command set.

And then I will write you a driver.

-brendan

sonyman

08-05-2008, 11:54 AM

Hello Brendan, the delivery date for the RIMAGE Buring Software is the next Monday. I cant log witout the Software.
I have testet your Rimage DTP x000 Driver with 9600 baut.
Only the < Load CLI> Command can Control the Robotic ( a litle Tilt , Picker release, and a litle Pan)
The funktion is NOK but control it!

sonyman

08-09-2008, 07:59 AM

bhoar

08-11-2008, 09:25 AM

Hi Brendan, i have testet the Function from the DTP 800
MHR-> CC (Arm try to pick a DISC /Arms goes only 20mm down to the Drive or Input and goes up)-NOK
MHI-> CC (Arm try to pick a DISC /Arms goes only 20mm down to the Drive or Input)-NOK
MHL-> CC (Arm goes 20mm down)-NOK
MHA-> CC (Arm goes up to the turn point)-OK
MHP-> CC (Arm try to pick a DISC /Arms goes only 20mm down to the Drive or Input and goes up)-NOK
MHO-> CC (Turns the Arm to the Output spindel and release the Disc!)-OK
MHH-> CC (Parks the Arm to the Output spindel-OK
MIA-> SE (Arms try to pick a DISC /Arms goes no down to the Drive or Input)-NOK

Pick up/ load disc will not work!

Thanks / Bastian

Bastian -

Not sure that covers enough to allow me write a driver...yet.

Some ideas...

Looking at the command, I suspect each command you list is really a single command with two parameters: First letter=core command (M=move); Second letter="From Location" (H=Handler, I=Input Location, etc.); Third letter="To Location" (O=Output, L=Printer, R=Reject Location, etc.).

Note that some locations might only be appropriate for other models and might not do anything useful on this machine.

1. Have you been able to discern if there are "pick" or "grab" commands?

2. Does it work with the RImage-distributed duplication software?

3. Have you been able to monitor software that properly moves discs around from location to location using PortMon?

4. Do you have the software for calibrating the unit? Perhaps your unit is not calibrated?

Looks like you are making progress, but I think I need more information.

-brendan

bhoar

08-15-2008, 03:55 PM

sonyman

08-16-2008, 08:59 AM

Anyone have one of the 100-disc Aleratec RoboRacer LS, Recordex RX-100PC, Dexpreso DEX1000, CDBox or "Boozer" devices they'd like to try with the batch ripper? I have a test driver available.

-brendan

Dear Brendan,
i wait of the original Rimage Software, i cant only test with the Hyperterminal at the Moment!
Yes i have used your Portmonitor
Thanks for the Information.

Do you have a driver for the Aleratec RoboRacer LS Unit?
Can you send me the Driver per Mail?

Thanks Bastian

bhoar

08-16-2008, 09:21 PM

Do you have a driver for the Aleratec RoboRacer LS Unit?
Can you send me the Driver per Mail?

done!

-brendan

sonyman

09-06-2008, 03:34 PM

Dear Brendan,
have you reed my RIMAGE DTP 800 log files?
Can you send me a driver?

Thanks!

Bastian

bhoar

09-06-2008, 03:50 PM

Dear Brendan,
have you reed my RIMAGE DTP 800 log files?
Can you send me a driver?

Will try to take a look at it tomorrow. Schedule over the last week went off the rails.

-brendan

sonyman

09-06-2008, 06:15 PM

Thanks!

Bastian

brannett

09-14-2008, 11:03 AM

hello there all
please excuse my ignorance, could someone explain how i go about my first batchrip...

i own the following MFDigital robot

http://www.mfdigital.com/downloads/ScribeEC_Data.pdf

(i want to rip my entire CD collection to FLAC...i have downloaded the batch ripper & converter software, dbpoweramp and appropriate codecs.)

do i setup a network cable between the scribeEC and my pc or does the music get ripped to the internal HD of the scribeEC?

presumably i need to get the drives of the scribeEC to appear as (for example) E:/ or F:/ drives and then configure them in the batch ripper configuration option

many thanks for advice in advance!

brannett

LtData

09-14-2008, 11:50 AM

You need to directly connect your computer, the batch ripper needs to directly communicate with the CD drives and a network connection isn't direct enough.

bhoar

09-14-2008, 12:03 PM

please excuse my ignorance, could someone explain how i go about my first batchrip...

i own the following MFDigital robot

http://www.mfdigital.com/downloads/ScribeEC_Data.pdf

(i want to rip my entire CD collection to FLAC...i have downloaded the batch ripper & converter software, dbpoweramp and appropriate codecs.)

do i setup a network cable between the scribeEC and my pc or does the music get ripped to the internal HD of the scribeEC?

presumably i need to get the drives of the scribeEC to appear as (for example) E:/ or F:/ drives and then configure them in the batch ripper configuration option

Hey bren, glad to see you finally got the equipment.

This is one of the MF-Digital models that is standalone, has a keypad, but does not run windows, right? e.g. If you look on the back, verify there is no a place for keyboard, video and mouse to connect. If so, it is truly standalone.

And if this is a truly standalone system running an embedded OS (linux or a DOS variant), then you'll need to externalize both the drive connections (simple) and the robot connection and make it a peripheral to a windows computer.. Don't worry, the control for the robot is just two wires (RxD and TxD) for the serial port.

The other question is, are the drives in the unit currently SCSI drives, IDE drives or firewire drives?

It's probably best to send me links to or emails containing a few photographs of the unit, including the back paneling.

Once I verify it is what I think it is, I can send you a driver that should work.

You can post links here and I've just PM'd you my email address if you need to send me the pictures. I'll need your email address to send the drivers.

-brendan

sonyman

09-18-2008, 04:14 PM

Dear Brendan,
have you new information about the
DTP-800 Driver?

Thanks
Bastian

bhoar

09-18-2008, 04:19 PM

Dear Brendan,
have you new information about the
DTP-800 Driver?

Thanks
Bastian

Sorry, schedule is still too busy to go over your logs. I know I'll need to write up some notes and ask you to verify some of the commands, not sure what else I need yet...

-brendan

sonyman

09-19-2008, 01:47 AM

Sorry, schedule is still too busy to go over your logs. I know I'll need to write up some notes and ask you to verify some of the commands, not sure what else I need yet...

-brendan

Ok,
let me know i can help.

Thanks!

Bastian

bhoar

10-03-2008, 06:39 PM

FYI, there are a several of the MicroOrbit-based Kodak units on ebay, originally made for the Kodak Photo Kiosks (I've seen the robots at Target, for example).

Search ebay for: Kodak duplicator.

Yes, they're only 50-disc. And they don't have separate accept vs. reject - just one input and one output.

And...replacing the drive, if you wanted to, would be a custom job (you need to cut notches in the tray for the lift levers to move through...and only some drives have the gear track in the right place for that to work).

But!

You can probably get one for approximately $100 including shipping (to the US, higher elsewhere), as long as you all don't compete against one another:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320307337446

And even less per unit you buy a lot of 10 of them. :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320306600736
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320306996105

...like I just did.

-brendan

PS - spoon - should this thread be moved to the batch ripper subforum?

jim7

10-04-2008, 11:06 AM

They are actually kind of nice little units. Mine was shipped a few days ago and it seems to be brand new and it was packed well -- almost too well, the box was gigantic for all that was in it.

The drivers for the USB-to-IDE and the USB-to-serial converter were auto-installed by Vista and I played around with it a bit with PuTTY pointed at the virtual COM port and the commands on your wiki. It seems like the relevant ones are just "I" for inserting a disc into the tray, "G" for getting a disc from the tray and "A" to drop this disc (on the floor since it doesn't come with a bin).

Besides batch ripper, do you know of any software that works with these? I'm more interested in general recording/burning software. If I could get the thing working with something like Nero or ImgBurn that would be perfect. I think I probably will try to swap in a DVD drive since it seems like the small physical changes to the tray that you mentioned would be all that's needed.

bhoar

10-04-2008, 06:42 PM

Yup, they were made for retail use, so they have to be tough.

As far as I am aware, other than my drivers for the batch ripper (and the kiosk software for kodak which I've never seen), there's no software written for these. The command set is extremely close to the amtren/discmakers units, but the requirement for a "G"rab and Close-tray before an "A"ccept means you're unlikely to coerce software to work with these. Most robots only need those two before a "R"eject.

Before swapping drives, get familiar with the placement of the toothed rail on the bottom side of the drive tray and the cutout locations. Any replacement drive will need to have the toothed rail located far enough away from the left and right sides of the tray that cutting out notches won't break the the teeth.

-brendan

jim7

10-05-2008, 05:37 PM

bhoar

10-05-2008, 09:21 PM

It seems to work okay just using a batch file. Just need to use "mode" to open the com port and "copy" to send the serial commands, along with some way of opening/closing the tray and sleep to give the robot time to execute a command. And of course some program that accepts commandline input to rip/burn/whatever.

It's not pretty, but it's good enough to do some useful work.

You could also use the ULCLI in a batch file as well (the ULCLI is included in the kodak driver file for the batch ripper). That way you could detect "end of input" situations.

-brendan

bhoar

10-09-2008, 12:12 PM

FYI, there are a several of the MicroOrbit-based Kodak units on ebay, originally made for the Kodak Photo Kiosks (I've seen the robots at Target, for example).

Heh. Looks like the bidding wars have started and they're topping $100 (delivered). Wonder if that's due to my post or a sudden market interest?

Out of curiosity, who here has purchased or bid on one of these? If you want to wait until the auction is over to talk about it, that's fine, of course. But I'd like to get a feel for how many of the purchases are coming from batch ripper/ULCLI users...

Edit: oh lookee! Someone else bought a lot of 10, and another person bought a lot of 5. Neat!

-brendan

hofftodd

10-09-2008, 05:34 PM

This may have already been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find an exact answer to this question:

Has anyone used one of the Aleratec CD towers that has a direct USB connection to a PC (non-standalone duplicator)? I'm wondering if one of these towers will show up as 3,4, or 8 drives under windows when you plug in the USB, and thus can be used w/ BatchRipper for some parallel ripping.

Thanks!

bhoar

10-09-2008, 05:57 PM

Has anyone used one of the Aleratec CD towers that has a direct USB connection to a PC (non-standalone duplicator)? I'm wondering if one of these towers will show up as 3,4, or 8 drives under windows when you plug in the USB, and thus can be used w/ BatchRipper for some parallel ripping.

Typically, those towers only put either a single optical (CD or DVD) drive on the USB connection (for burning the master), or, alternately, only put the internal hard drive on the USB (if it has one, for storing multiple masters).

If you want a multi-drive parallel tower, you'll need to build one yourself.

-brendan

sunstealer

10-10-2008, 12:37 PM

bhoar

10-10-2008, 12:54 PM

Could dBPowerAmp be used to batch rip non-music CDs? I am a hospital doctor and we have a large number of magnetic resonance scans stored on CD that we want to batch copy to disk. We have a Datatronics MiniCubis and I've been trying to figure out the bulk USB commands to control the robot with limited success - although I can program, I knew very little about USB until now. What I really need is a dos executable that allows me to give each separate robot command so that I can write a batch script to do all the copying of the CDs to hard disk - otherwise the relevant .c and headers would be a great alternative, and I'll do it in C. Any help with finding this code or if it doesn't exist, with guidance on how we could write it would be very helpful. I get the impression that an SDK exists for controlling this robot - is that right?

thanks in advance

If you buy the dbpoweramp R13.1 *Reference*, you get the batch ripper and you can download the baxter drivers for the batch ripper, which include command line clients load.exe, unload.exe, reject.exe, etc. Yep, command line clients.

They may work perfectly well outside of dbpoweramp, but I doubt spoon will fully support their use in such a manner, though he may decide to not explicitly forbid it either.

In addition, if you send me a PM, I may be able to help with a non-dbpoweramp utility (based on some coding for a project I did a few years back).

-brendan

Spoon

10-10-2008, 01:04 PM

Illustrate do not place restrictions on our programs in such a manor, so yes you could use the load.exe commands etc to load the drive from an external component (you would have to specify the drive letter on the command line also, see the batch command line help).

sonyman

10-10-2008, 02:33 PM

Dear Brendan,
have you new Information about the Driver?

Witch Inforamtion need you?

Best Bastian:yawn:

bhoar

10-10-2008, 02:50 PM

Dear Brendan,
have you new Information about the Driver?

Witch Inforamtion need you?

Best Bastian:yawn:

Bastian -

No, sorry. In the midst of several crises at home, no time to work on new or improved robot drivers until the end of the month...at the earliest.

I offered the help for the baxter since I already had baxter code from a couple years ago ready to mail to alex.

-brendan

brannett

10-14-2008, 11:17 AM

hi guys - ive just installed a wireless network adapter to my MF-Digital Scribe EC so as to hide it away in the garage.
im now using remote desktop to access it over my wifi home network - eliminating need for the extra Key/Vid/Mouse.

however i'm having a problem with the destination of the ripped files - i'd like to be able to place them not on the harddrive built into the machine but on my home PC as in \\tsclient\X

any suggestions gratefully recieved -- or is this a suggestion for future release! ;)

cheers

brannett

bhoar

10-14-2008, 11:29 AM

Suggestions:

1. Mount the remote path as a drive letter using explorer (Tools/Map Network Drive...).

2. Configure a Profile in the cd ripper that uses that drive letter.

3. Make sure you're using the Encode Local DSP in your profile, which works around some severe performance issues ripping to a remote path.

4. When running the batch ripper, choose that profile.

Expect performance to suffer however...writing the data over wireless will slow things down.

-brendan

brannett

10-14-2008, 12:28 PM

bhoar

10-14-2008, 01:09 PM

cheers for that brendan...

hadnt realised that the "ordinary"/single disc cd ripper program settings had such an impact on the batch ripping program!.....(now i see where to change options aswell like how the tagging works etc! so thanks for that too..) will let you know how i get on

cheers man

Yup. The batch ripper profiles are the same as the cd ripper profiles, but you can only configure them in the cd ripper.

-brendan

DJ ROB

10-14-2008, 03:38 PM

bhoar

10-14-2008, 03:49 PM

So I'm one of the guys that purchased a NEW Kodak Kiosk Batch Ripper from eBay last week. Great deal and It looks tough. I got the all software purchased, downloaded and install yesterday (dBpoweramp Reference R13.1 Registered, CD Writer Release 3, Batch Ripper and Kodak Drivers, and perfectmeta AMG) The problem is I'm getting a Error saying: ULCLI Notification Unable to initialize robot shutting down. I setup on 2 different computers to make sure. I even did the testing commands in the configuration, the Post-Batch CLI was the only function working (It was ejecting the tray). Now do I need to update something on the Kodak Kiosk Hardware for the Robot to respond to the commands?

1. What serial port does the robot show up on? Check the Device Manager (windows-pause/Hardware/Device Manager). Does it show up as COM3? COM8? Etc. Make sure you always plug the unit into the exact same USB port, or windows will be "helpful" and assign a different serial port number for each USB port you use, which means having to reconfigure things almost every time you plug it in.

2. Do you have all five command lines set to use the same com port and is it the correct one? If you've messed the commands lines up, change the driver to the manual eject drive, save, then come back and switch to Kodak to get the original, default command lines, and then edit from there.

3. Due to the drive reservation code in the ULCLI, execution order of the commands matters a lot. For example, if you are using the Test function in the Configuration module, you have to perform a pre-batch before you perform a load. If you've done things out of order, do a post-batch, reboot and proceed normally.

-brendan

bhoar

10-15-2008, 10:42 AM

Additionally, for the Kodak unit, if it is not obvious which port the USB serial port is connected to, you can compare the device manager's "Ports" subtree with the kodak disconnected vs. connected. When connected an additional com port should show up. That way you know which com port to use.

If there's a concern the robot isn't responding correctly (e.g, the robot controller board is bad), you can open hyperterminal, set the speed to 9600, settings to 8N1 open the connection and type "V" then "C". "V" should give info on the robot, "C" should give an "X". Before running the batch ripper, make sure you exit hyperterminal.

-brendan

DJ ROB

10-15-2008, 12:29 PM

bhoar

10-15-2008, 01:11 PM

My IT guys are saying that the Robot is not coming up in the COM Port at all. They were wondering if the robots firmware is gone or does not come up due to it being originally an attachment to a Kodak Kiosk system. So I guess that means that Mirco Orbit CD Firmware needs installed and I probably would have to contact Microboards.

Thanks
ROB

Rob.

If you look inside the case, you'll find something amazing:

The USB port on the back is just a bracket, that feeds into a 7-port USB hub. That USB hub then connects to two different devices: a USB to RS232 serial cable adapter and a USB to IDE drive adapter.

The serial cable adapter then plugs into the robot controller board and the IDE adapter plugs into the drive.

I'd something inside has become disconnected after the USB hub, or perhaps the internal USB to RS232 cable is bad.

I received a couple of these where there were build problems, easily fixable. One like the above situation and another where one of the lifter paddles was mounted 90 degress off of where it should be (easily fixable with a torx and philips screwdriver set).

I'm guessing that some point years ago microboards got a very large contract to create these and...may have not done as good a job as they do putting them together (or perhaps it was farmed out).

-brendan

bhoar

10-15-2008, 03:28 PM

Rob, one more thing:

There's also the chance that it might be a driver issue. When you connect the device, does any new device show up in the USB subtree or as an unknown device?

-brendan

DJ ROB

10-15-2008, 05:47 PM

bhoar

10-15-2008, 06:28 PM

Still Says Unknown on the device(USB Serial Controller), with the good old yellow Questionmark.

Very weird But I connected the Com1 port from the back of the desktop Dell, then directly to the DB9 Cable on the inside and also left the USB connected. Did a test on the Kodak Kiosk set-up config, It DID NOT work. Then thought I should try the Micro Orbit set-up test. IT WORKED!!!
I just Set up to start ripping and it's Hauling ARSE. Looks like a possible inside Serial to USB cable issue like you said. I don't know 100%, It's working and I'm leaving it alone. Your AWESOME!!! Thanks for the info.

ROB

Hmm, if the USB device is seen but is "not working" in the device manager, then you might just need the correct Prolific or FTDI driver for the USB to serial bridge. That might have been the problem all along!

You can use the Microboards driver, but with one caveat.

With the Microboards driver, you'll never be able to rip the last 5 discs without manual intervention.

Why?

Because, for kiosk use, they modified the sensor to start returning an error code after loading the fifth disc instead after the last (or on the first "empty" shot). Presumably, this would be so that the retail location would get a "discs running low" indicator so that they could restock it before the customer had to be delayed.

The Microboards driver sees that as a failed load and stops (though you can tell it to resume, I think). The Kodak driver starts keeping count and gives different beep sounds depending on if the disc is the fifth, fourth, third, second or last before it tells you it is empty.

In general, though: congratulations on your new ripper bot!

-brendan

kretch

10-16-2008, 01:45 AM

Hi Brendan, all
I've purchased a microorbit for giggles and to see I can substitute some of my XL1B's for ripping.
So here's a total noob question for you:
*) Where can I find a manual for this thing? i.e. how do I assemble it, where do the discs go etc. ? I don't want to mess up my new toy by hooking it up upside down somehow.

Any information would be most welcome

Thanks!
Kretch

Spies

10-16-2008, 02:06 AM

Kretch,

For a manual you can try this (http://www.microboards.net/filemgmt/singlefile.php?lid=19) one.

I ordered a few of the Kodaks myself and plan on replacing my Sony XL1B's as well. :smile2: Should have them next week.

Steven

kretch

10-16-2008, 10:42 AM

Thanks Steven!

bhoar

10-16-2008, 11:10 AM

And for the record, here's the difference between a standard Microboards MicroOrbit and the Kodak-custom variety:

The Kodak has the following that the MicroOrbit doesn't: an external interface to a PC for the drive and robot control board, an internal USB hub, an internal USB to serial converter to the robot board, an internal USB to IDE converter for the drive, an adjusted sensor (or firmware modification) that throws errors on the Insert command when 5 or less discs are left (instead of when zero are left), a custom-firmware Teac CD-RW drive and, finally, a seriously crazy color scheme (thanks Kodak).

The MicroOrbit has the following that the Kodak doesn't: an internal duplication controller, a hard disk, upgradeable firmware, an extra LED on the front, a button on the front, a buzzer/bell, and sometimes a DVD drive instead of a CD drive in the newer units. If you want to use one of these with the batch ripper, you'll need to externalize the drive and serial interfaces yourself (hardware work). Unless you are very clever, doing so would also break the duplication functionality (always keep notes on where cables/wires go before disconnecting).

They both are:

- built to withstand a few more dings than your average robot, as the moving parts are "warded" and hard for the user to inadvertently break off.
- sometimes shipped with some parts needing a bit of adjustment. e.g. I've received some spindles where the "lock" part at the end was too easy to move or impossible to move, which required a torx screwdriver to address.
- somewhat fiddly to load and unload (less so than an XL1B, though), but you can do it well after some practice. I tend to use a modified version of the approach outlined in the manual, starting by tipping the stack slightly towards the rear of the unit as I place it in the hopper, and curving it toward the vertical as I finalize the placement as this helps avoid overtipping toward the front which causes discs to fall off the spindle.
- not capable of physically rejecting discs separate from the output stack, so you need to keep an eye on the reject column of the batch ripper and go through the stack at the end of the run to pull the rejects.
- somewhat sensitive to being on a non-flat surface due to the gravity feed system.

In any case, the linked-to manual should be helpful in giving good operating and handling advice.

hofftodd

10-22-2008, 03:50 PM

I also purchased one of the Kodak MicroOrbit robots from ebay which arrived last night. I've been playing around with it for a few hours, and here are my experiences so far.

* Getting it to run on Vista was not a slam dunk. I couldn't get the batch ripper configuration file changes to stick. I went into the configuration screen and edited the 5 command lines to use the com port that the unit showed up on (COM5), and clicked configure. If I then went into Batch Ripper and started a batch, I would get the ULCLI error saying it couldn't communicate with the com port. I noticed that back in the configuration screen the command lines would show COM1 again. So, I resorted to manually configuring the command files found in Program Files/Illustrate/Batch Ripper with a text editor. I'm not sure if this is a Vista specific problem or not.

* Now that I've got the unit working, it does a great job ripping the disks when they get into the tray.

* The robot I purchased sometimes has problems knocking the next disk off of the spindle. I can see the "black finger" comes out and touches the disk when it is supposed to, but it doesn't always bump it enough to knock it off of the spindle. Has anyone else had this problem? I'd like to know if there is a trick to setting the spindle offset in such a way that the disks always fall into the tray when they should.

* I noticed in a previous post that the Kodak units sometimes stop when there are 5 disks left. Is this something I have to worry about if I use the Kodak Kiosk drivers or only if I switch to using the MicroOrbits drivers?

Thanks,
Todd

bhoar

10-22-2008, 04:05 PM

Hi Todd.

1. I don't use vista, and the batch ripper and the batch ripper configuration are spoon's domain, so I can't speak to this item. I am glad you were able to find a workaround, though. Good investigating skills!

2. Good.

3. Some Qs:

- What do you mean by spindle offset? As far as I am aware, there are no adjustments. You put the discs in, rotate the little spindle lock at the top 180 degrees, invert and it just goes straight in.
- Are you sure that the spindle has been properly set into place? Please scroll back to review my hints and also read the micro-orbit documentation for the official word.
- Is the device on a flat surface? The drop capability is very sensitive to the angle of placement. Also, going out on a limb: it may be possible to improve the behavior of an out-of-spec unit by mounting the unit on an incline with the front very slightly lower than the rear.
- Are the discs actually clean? Perhaps some are sticking together...
- Does it happen randomly in the middle of a spindle of discs, or does it happen more after some spindle placements than others?
- Is it possible the "wings" used to lift a disc from the tray are misadjusted and perhaps occasionally interfering with a disc drop?

4. This is only a worry if you use the Microboards-specific driver. If you use the Kodak-specific driver, it works around the problem and also beeps at you with five different beeps as it traverses the last five discs so that you know, ahead of time, that a spindle refill is necessary.

-brendan

hofftodd

10-22-2008, 04:10 PM

Brendan, thanks for the quick reply. I'll try your suggestions tonight and do some more investigating. I'll report back what I find.

bhoar

10-22-2008, 04:30 PM

Brendan, thanks for the quick reply. I'll try your suggestions tonight and do some more investigating. I'll report back what I find.

One silly question: you are putting the spindle in place with the arrow pointing forward and fully aligned with the three hex screws on the top of the hopper?

It's a silly question because I think it'd fail 100% of the time if you had it rotated to one of the two other possible positions.

-brendan

hofftodd

10-22-2008, 04:34 PM

One silly question: you are putting the spindle in place with the arrow pointing forward and fully aligned with the three hex screws on the top of the hopper?

It's a silly question because I think it'd fail 100% of the time if you had it rotated to one of the two other possible positions.

-brendan

Yep. I figured out that the arrow pointed forward on my own :). My problem seems to be fine adjustment problem. Hopefully I can solve it with a couple sheets of paper under the back end of the unit. I'll let you know.

bhoar

10-22-2008, 04:43 PM

I'm examining the mechanism on one of mine at the moment.

Try placing the bottom of the stack (when in the unit) at about eye level and watch from the side. If you have the upper ring of the spindle/stack placed correctly, the front of the stack is slightly tipped about 2 CDs width lower than the back of the stack and the back of the stack is caught on the ~45 degree arc of black plastic, which keeps the rear slightly elevated and in-line with the push lever.

Takes practice, and always watch the first few discs to make sure they are a) dropping and b) dropping singley. If they do, then the rest of the stack should be OK.

-brendan

bhoar

10-23-2008, 01:29 PM

Yep. I figured out that the arrow pointed forward on my own :). My problem seems to be fine adjustment problem. Hopefully I can solve it with a couple sheets of paper under the back end of the unit. I'll let you know.

It's been almost 21 hours! I am beside myself with anticipation!

-brendan

hofftodd

10-23-2008, 01:36 PM

Brendan,

I am running a batch right now that seems to be working. The first few test batches I did were with about 5 discs. I think that when the spindle gets lighter, it doesn't always sit down far enough for the "finger" to eject the discs. I'm on disc 5 of about 40 right now. I'll let you know if I have problems as I get down to the last 5 disks.

hofftodd

10-23-2008, 01:39 PM

bhoar

10-23-2008, 02:05 PM

I am running a batch right now that seems to be working. The first few test batches I did were with about 5 discs. I think that when the spindle gets lighter, it doesn't always sit down far enough for the "finger" to eject the discs. I'm on disc 5 of about 40 right now. I'll let you know if I have problems as I get down to the last 5 disks.

Yeah, that points to a placement issue. I *suspect* you won't have problems once it gets started correctly, even with the last five.

What might be happening is that the extra weight of a half to full spindle helps the settle-in-place process, whereas a small number of discs may kind of catch in a non-optimal position without the additional weight to push them into place.

You might also consider using three or four fingers to gently (gently!) press down evenly on the platter after loading. Just recognize that if you press and shift, or press too hard, you may cause discs to fall out.

On another note, do you have any suggestions on how to speed up the post-load/pre-MetaData lookup wait time? Using the Kodak robot, I seem to be waiting a couple of minutes before the MetaDat lookup occurs. Note: I have turned off all AutoPlay functionality in the Vista control panel.

For this issue, perform some tests with all of the metadata options turned off, just see what the "only accuraterip" baseline is.

My experience is that this drive+bridge is inherently slow to recognize discs, taking about 45 seconds from tray pull in to disc seen mounted in explorer on my day to day laptop (haven't tried it on a clean workstation). Not sure if the issue is the drive or bridge, but it's likely the drive.

This is one reason I've asked spoon to allow the disc recognition time in the batch ripper to be user-adjustable, so that it won't inadvertantly reject discs from slow to mount drives. For now, I'm just going to ensure that the load command for the kodak units either waits for the disc to be recognized internally or includes a long delay after load before exiting and return control to the batch ripper.

Of course, one could always try swapping bridges or drives...but the latter inherently risky (have to cut notches in the tray and alignment matters a lot).

-brendan

PS - there's also a similar delay in the unload/reject command between the pick+tray-close and the drop. this is currently in place to ensure that the pick worked and the tray closed. i may release a version that uses timing only, instead which could speed this up but be at slightly added risk for dropping the disc with the tray open (bad) or moving (horrible due to possible picker/tray collision).

bhoar

10-23-2008, 08:51 PM

My experience is that this drive+bridge is inherently slow to recognize discs, taking about 45 seconds from tray pull in to disc seen mounted in explorer on my day to day laptop (haven't tried it on a clean workstation). Not sure if the issue is the drive or bridge, but it's likely the drive.

(replying to myself)

Though, I do have to say, the Teac CD-W552DA *does* appear to handle scratched discs pretty well (my setup: accuraterip + secure + ultra 1 minimum + c2 + 256KB cache guesstimate).

I was just ripping a scratched up Motown CD-R I have to return to my ex. Some tracks had over 100 frames to re-read. And so far I've only heard one click on the worst track (it was marked insecure, of course).

So, the kodak-bundled teac seems to handle good CDs in ~2 minutes and also seems to handle problem discs that take longer than 30 minutes pretty well.

-brendan

PS - I'll also note that, a year or two ago the very same units would suddenly disconnect their own USB connection when using dbpoweramp's cd ripper with C2 on when dealing with scratched discs...something about the access pattern drove them crazy. I think spoon's recent changes to make the drive IO somewhat friendlier to unreliable usb bridges has helped quite a bit.

jim7

10-24-2008, 09:49 PM

bhoar

10-24-2008, 10:35 PM

Does anyone have a copy of the "Microboards driver" or "Kodak driver" that have been mentioned?

Also, does anyone know what model of DVD drive is used in the stand-alone DVD version of the MicroOrbit MLDV1000? All I've been able to find is that it's a Pioneer drive. I would think that this would pretty much be a drop-in replacement to allow the Kodak kiosk duplicator to do DVDs.

Drivers are on this page (you'll need to scroll down):

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

You can swap drives of course, but keep in mind that, in addition to the normal alignment of the drive to have the tray placement correct and the sometime necessary removal of the drive faceplate, you'll also need to cut matching notches in the tray for the lifter wings. Drives have a "track" for the tray open/close sprockets, and some have this track right at the edge of the tray (won't work), while others have it further in (will work).

Obtain a Kodak unit. Turn it upside down or on its side. Eject the tray. You'll see what I mean. Then just find another drive where the track is at least 3mm (or so, haven't measured) away from the tray edge and you're set.

-brendan

IamNemo

10-26-2008, 09:43 PM

My Sony VGP-XL1B(3) was ripping perfectly this morning. At the end of that batch I emptied it and moved it a few feet further away from my computer.

I then tried to use a 15ft FireWire cable but it didn't work (it works in my recording studio though). I had to move it back where it was before and reconnected everything with the original 6ft cable. It DOESN'T work now!:(

The drives are not seen under My Computer like before (I'm running XP PRO SP3), FreeChange doesn't see it and neither does Batch Ripper. I checked the RSM service and it's set to Manual and was not running: OK

I then tried 4 different 6ft cables to no avail. I tried both plugs on back and all the ones on my PC. No other change was made than described above.

The changer does its self-test when turned on and I can load/unload several discs.

Please help me! I'm running out of ideas. :cry: Thanks! Iam Nemo

Porcus

10-27-2008, 09:04 AM

Nemo: Tried to unplug everything and leave it off for a day? Should not work, does sometimes nevertheless.

IamNemo

10-27-2008, 08:44 PM

Nemo: Tried to unplug everything and leave it off for a day? Should not work, does sometimes nevertheless.

Thanks Porcus. That's exactly what I did today: no luck either. I tried to plug it to a notebook and it didn't work.

Open to suggestions... :) Thanks! Iam Nemo

Porcus

10-27-2008, 11:49 PM

I've had similar issues, but they have resolved themselves in one way or another, without any good explanation why or why not.

IamNemo

10-28-2008, 05:45 AM

I've had similar issues, but they have resolved themselves in one way or another, without any good explanation why or why not.
Oh, that's disturbing Porcus. My Sony was working so well after giving up on my Powerfile C200.

Has anyone here has ever had any problems with the FireWire connectors themselves at the back of the Sony units? I now suspect that just (carefully) unplugging/replugging the FW cable might have broken something of the FW controller board (cold solder?). :headbang:

Thanks for any help! Iam Nemo

Porcus

10-28-2008, 11:16 AM

IamNemo: You are active at the AVS Forum. Think you would have better chances over there.

IamNemo

10-28-2008, 08:54 PM

IamNemo: You are active at the AVS Forum. Think you would have better chances over there.
I followed your advice and cross-posted to AVS. Thanks, Nemo.

hofftodd

10-28-2008, 09:39 PM

It's been almost 21 hours! I am beside myself with anticipation!

-brendan

Thanks for all the help with getting the Kodak robot up and running. I've had it running on a continuous batch for 30 hours and 48 minutes. It occasionally skips loading discs, but if I let it keep running it will begin to pick them up again. I'm not sure if the spindle alignments on my unit are just a bit off.

What I'm finding now is that my aging cd collection has many scratched and unreadable discs (66 discs ripped successfully, 15 discs rejected due to errors, 21 discs failed to load on the current batch). Most of the discs failed to load are due to a long wait time on load, and if I put them back in the stack, they load successfully the second time around.

Overall, I'm really happy with dBPA and the batch ripping functionality. I'm also really happy with the robot. It is great to be able to leave the system running while I am away. I can't imagine trying to rip my collection by hand...

But, I'm definitely in the market for a cd scratch repair system now. Any suggestions? I've been looking at the aleratec and skip dr. disc repair tools.

bhoar

10-28-2008, 10:04 PM

Todd-

Before we go to the scratched disc fixing, I can probably help with timeouts causing the failed loads by suggesting a minor adjustment of the kodak script. Open this file using notepad.exe:

C:\Program Files\Illustrate\dBpoweramp\BatchRipper\Loaders\Ko dak Kiosk 50 disc\Load\DefaultCmdLine.txt

Actually make a backup of it first, then edit it. :)

Make sure Format/Word Wrap is *not* checked before editing, because the lines are very very long and we don't want notepad to auto-wrap, which will break the script.

Hit ctrl-f to Find, then type --sleep=2 then hit enter, which should bring you to the post-load post-close sleep command (note there are two --sleep=2 instances, we want the first one).

Hit right arrow to unselect the nine chars of text, hit left arrow to move back to right after the 2, hit backspace once to erase the 2 and then type 10 to change the 2 to a 10.

e.g. we change this:

... --closeblind --sleep=2 --unbindtodrive ...

to this:

... --closeblind --sleep=10 --unbindtodrive ...

Do a File/Save from the menu.

Restart the batch ripper.

This change ensures the code does inform the batch ripper that the disc was inserted for at least 10 seconds after it was inserted. Should be enough time for it to spin up and start recognition before the batch ripper regains control and *should* help to prevent the batch ripper from timing out. You can experiment with different values.

-brendan

hofftodd

10-29-2008, 08:39 AM

This change ensures the code does inform the batch ripper that the disc was inserted for at least 10 seconds after it was inserted. Should be enough time for it to spin up and start recognition before the batch ripper regains control and *should* help to prevent the batch ripper from timing out. You can experiment with different values.

-brendan

Brendan, thanks again for the suggestions. I'll make this settings change and see if I get fewer failed to load discs.

bhoar

10-29-2008, 08:58 AM

This change ensures the code does inform the batch ripper that the disc was inserted for at least 10 seconds after it was inserted. Should be enough time for it to spin up and start recognition before the batch ripper regains control and *should* help to prevent the batch ripper from timing out. You can experiment with different values.

Er, I meant to type "This change ensures the code does *not* inform the batch ripper...". Basically, add a delay before telling the batch ripper that it can look at the drive...to ensure the initial spin-up is not interrupted.

-brendan

bhoar

11-02-2008, 10:27 PM

Brendan, thanks again for the suggestions. I'll make this settings change and see if I get fewer failed to load discs.

Todd - for the record, changing that sleep from 2 to 10 seconds has fixed a similar issue on one of my machines. So, perhaps everyone should make that change.

Also, for anyone else who has problems with the USB to Serial adapter inside the kodak units not being recognized by windows, here's the driver page for the 2303 chipset:

http://www.prolific.com.tw/eng/downloads.asp?ID=31

-brendan

bhoar

11-06-2008, 05:18 PM

Re: loading the Kodak spindle

I'm now finding it more reliable to:

a) load the discs onto the spindle
b) click the disc lock into place
c) invert the spindle, but use a hand grip that holds the discs up against the *top* instead of the lock.
d) move a (clean, recently washed) hand up into the cage from underneath
e) lower the spindle into place using the lower hand to keep the discs compressed up to the top
f) click the top of the spindle into the three bolts at the top of the cage
g) using the hand still under the discs, slowly and *evenly* drop the disc stack into place.

Note that this may not be a recommended method if you were using blank discs (e.g. unit as a duplicator) because even vague fingerprints can be fatal when burning, but I find the results more than acceptable for ripping.

I'm doing some additional testing to ensure the drivers work correctly in parallel...e.g. today I have three kodak units stacked on my desk, with phone books as spacers and tupperware above the first and second spindles to prevent dropped discs from skittering off.

So...how're the rest of the kodakians robot-related experiences going?

-brendan

hofftodd

11-07-2008, 10:48 AM

iWhat

11-14-2008, 09:11 AM

Hello,

I found this forum while searching for information on the reliability of certain autoloading cd duplicators that I am considering purchasing.

A lot of you seems very knowledgeable in this domain and I would appreciate your recommendations.

I've narrowed it down to the following units:

- R-Quest 7200 2 drive unit with FlashJet printer
- Microboards MX-2
- Primera Bravo Pro
- MF Digital Scribe 9602 with PicoJet printer

My primary concerns are reliability of the robotics, output speed, then printer quality.

Which is these units should I be leaning towards? Do any of you have any personal experience with these units?

I plan on producing up to 2000 CDs per month so I need a unit capable of handling that workload. Are there any other units I should consider instead?

Thank you in advance for your help. I've been researching duplicators for over a month and haven't been able to find too much information on them besides on EMediaLive. I am anxious to finally make my purchase.

Again, your feedback is well appreciated.

bhoar

11-14-2008, 09:42 AM

iWhat -

Well, I can't give you perfect advice, because I don't use the machines for duplication or printing. In addition, I have an "experience bias" toward machines that are controlled via a standard serial port or a USB<->serial bridge (vs. proprietary USB protocols) as well as machines that regularly show up for resale on ebay, meaning I've never acquired an R-Quest unit, bravo pro or Microboards MX-2.

But I have variants of all but the R-Quest unit here.

So I can only give you rough, general purpose advice.

1. Duplication costs (and expenses/profit margins) are very dependent on printing costs. These in turn, are dependent on cost of media types required/supported by the printing technology, * of disks per ink cartridge/toner unit, cartridge type (one combined/CMYK separates), whether generic cartridges are available, whether continuous ink setups are available, etc. I can't point you to the cheapest reliable technology, but I just gave you pointers to the stuff you need to research.

2. Primera's business model is similar to the "razor blades" model. They use barcodes to enforce purchase of their own (usually more expensive) cartridges, which means you won't find generic cartridges being sold (but you can buy expensive sheets of fake barcodes on ebay for using generic cartridges). I do not know if the other three do this or not, but I suspect not.

3. If you need to depend on the hardware for your business, I am of the mind that, given a single sum of money, it's probably a safer bet to buy two smaller units, each with half the capacity vs. one larger unit, all other things being the same. If a single unit fails, you can see why having two would be better that having one. If you need the features of the larger unit, then make sure you have a warranty (and can afford one) with on-site repair or 24-hour replacement features.

4. Some of the units you pointed to are peripherals, others may be full blown windows computers inside the duplicators. Keep that in mind in terms of system cost and support issues. I suspect that the windows inside ones are more reliable as long as you follow their rules and never install anything not supported by the supplier.

5. If the unit you buy uses a "separate" printer, it is best to purchase the duplicator/printer together as a package, because they often require custom mounting plates that you would have to search out separately for several hundred dollars if you bought the duplicator and printer separately.

6. Froogle is your friend on pricing, but always double check with a deeper google search as well as old fashioned telephone shopping: sometimes sales sites aren't indexed on froogle.

7. I like the picker in the contemporary MF Digital units and, the 9602's use of two drive positions can increase throughput. Microboards units' robotics are simpler, but do require the drive tray to close on Accepts as well as Rejects, which can slow the unload/load cycle a little bit.

Lastly, I will note that I have hardly answered your questions, and given you more questions to ponder.

iWhat

11-14-2008, 12:04 PM

I appreciate your insight bhoar.

The thing I've noticed while researching these units is that once I think my mind is made up, there are always new questions and issues that come up. And considering the lack of information online, this has become quite a difficult decision.

Mostly, I get my information from the sales people at these different companies, which of course tends to be biased. And the information I get from different resellers is also biased towards whichever manufacturer they get a larger profit margin on.

As for ink costs, I concluded that it would be more cost effective for me to go for a unit that supports 4 individual cartridges for CMYK and not those tri-color cartridges found in most other HP-driven printers. Thus, advantage, Microboards in this department.

I'm steering away from Primera due to their higher cost proprietary ink catridges. The Microboards' ones, while also proprietary, are less expensive.

The purpose of this purchase is, in fact, for business use. Regardless of which unit I decide to buy, there will be 2 of them to minimize downtime in case of failure. Despite this, I would still like to have a unit that won't need to be repaired every 3 months. I am in Canada, so those 24-hour on-site warranty options are unfortunately, not available to me.

As for MF Digital, while their units seem solid and capable of handling a large workload, I've heard mixed things about the company itself. Apparently, they like to file bankruptcy every 3-4 years and then start fresh under a new name. Thus, voiding whatever warranty was purchased before the bankruptcy. A lot of resellers stopped carrying their products for this very reason.

I cannot find any Canadian resellers on Froogle. And with the unfavorable exchange rate right now, buying from the US is not a viable option. I wish I needed to make this purchase a year ago when our currency was at par!

So in reality, the 2 units I'm leaning mostly towards are the R-Quest and Microboards.

I like R-Quest due to the
- Higher disc holding capacity.
- Relatively fast robotics.
- Stand-alone operation.
- Networking capability.

However, on the downside, their printer uses only 2 cartridges (HP 56 and 57). I imagine this shortens the ink cartridge life considerably. And I'm not sold on the reliability of all these moving parts and robotic arms. It seems they would be costly to repair out of warranty.

The advantage of the Microboards unit, on the other hand...
- Would have a lower ink cost per disc.
- A more reliable, albeit slower robotic system.
- Rapid exchange, overnight replacement warranty option.
- Is about $1200 cheaper per unit.

But, it does not have stand-alone operation nor networking capabilities.

It seems I have merely documented my thoughts here. Perhaps, this post would have been better suited for my blog. :P

Any additional feedback is more than welcome.

Thank You

sonyman

11-14-2008, 02:45 PM

Dear Brandan,
i try agin!
Have you news about the DTP 800 Driver,
how can i use the Machine with the Batchripper?

I hope you have now more Time!

Best Regards
Bastian

bhoar

11-15-2008, 08:50 PM

iWhat,

Yeah, unfortunately there isn't really a good user community forum for CD/DVD duplicator hardware and related applications. The few small ones I have seen have usually been bolted on to a reseller site partly as a pseudo-support forum and partly to drum up business.

If you do post to your blog, send the link this way, I'd like to see the responses.

-brendan

bhoar

11-15-2008, 08:55 PM

Regarding the Kodak driver, I've made some updates:

1. A change from 2-second to 10-second pause after insert (to allow for the Teac drive to perform an uninterrupted spinup and recognize discs properly).

2. Tightened up a few bits of timing to shave a few seconds here and there,

3. Added a --pausereject=no/yes option to the script for times where the operator would prefer the unit would stop on rejects, instead of just dropping it into the single output pile. It pauses and beeps every minute with an OK dialog presented. When you press OK, it drops the disc, so you can grab it from the pile. Might be useful if the discs aren't well labeled (e.g. you're ripping CD-Rs for some reason).

I'll be sending the updated archive to spoon so he can put the installer together.

-brendan

bhoar

11-15-2008, 09:03 PM

I've had my Kodak robot running round the clock for about 2 weeks now. I've ripped through most of my collection and had a mostly good experience with the robot.

The few issues I have had:

* It sometimes takes up to 6 minutes to recognize a disk after load. I think there is something wrong with my cd drivers running in Vista. When this occurs, there is almost no cpu resources being used but all cd/dvd drive and hard drive access freeze up until the disk is finally recognized.

* I occasionally load a bad stack of discs, and the robot cannot knock the bottom disc off of the spindle. The "black finger" activates when it should and hits the bottom of the stack, but no disc falls off. This quickly results in 10 failed disc loads and ends the batch. I haven't quite figured out what the problem is when this occurs. Reloading the stack has always solved the problem.

* My cd collection is less than pristine, and I'm getting lots of errors during ripping. I'm not doing any pre rip cleaning, and I'm using the robot to sort through the discs that are in need of buffing. This slows down the process, but who cares... The robot is doing the work. I've ordered a disc buffing tool (aleratec) and will start cleaning and re-ripping the error pile soon.

Overall, great experience. I've been very happy with the robot and the dBpoweramp software. Thanks to everyone on the forum for the help!

Todd,

I haven't seen the long pauses for disc recognition (at least, not after making the 2 second to 10 second post-load sleep change - you made that change, right?). In general, it sounds like a Vista issue to me...assuming you have dbpa configured to disable auto-run, right? BOTH the cd ripper and batch ripper modules have this setting, so check the box to disable it in BOTH.

Regarding the stack issue, I haven't had that problem since I've been using the "hand underneath" method of loading.

The aleratec (black) version of the consumer cleaning device (sold under several names) comes with three pairs of pads: clean (blue), repair(yellow) and buff (pink). In reality, the "buff" is more of a "grind", which is actually necessary before "repair" for deeper scratches. Your discs might look worse after a "buff" + "repair" session, but you're trading lightly scratched circles that don't parallel the read path with smoothing out the edges of those that do or other larger/deeper scratches. Some resellers of this device don't include the pink (buff/grind) pads...I am guessing because people complained that they made more scratches on the surface, but that's the point, it creates systematic scratches when grinding in order to level out the edges around scratches that cause problems.

It's my favorite consumer-level repair package...

-brendan

bhoar

11-15-2008, 09:04 PM

Bastian,

Not yet, sorry. Have to get my DTP 800 unit out of storage.

Were you ever able to test my Roboracer drivers?

-brendan

bhoar

11-20-2008, 07:20 PM

Folks - the Kodak driver has been updated. Spoon graciously packaged it up in the installer and posted to the batch-ripper download page.

Changes, generally speaking:

1. Longer sleep after insert+close before returning control to the batch ripper in order to help prevent good discs from failing to be recognized on insert due to interrupted spinups.

2. Some other timing adjustments for slightly increased throughput.

3. A new user controllable flag for the reject command line (in batch ripper configuration) to allow you ask the driver to pause operation whenever a reject is about to be dropped. This may be useful if you have some specialty disc collections (e.g. when the discs aren't well labeled or are so esoteric that metadata matches fail) and it is difficult to determine from the reject list which disc was rejected.

----

I wanted to take care of that before moving on to my next stage of business development.

I'll be transitioning my ulcli-based drivers from "free for dbpoweramp users" to a per device/per drive pay model. Don't fret, driver packages already released will remain free and available for download as long as spoon wishes to host them. In addition, drivers I've already privately promised to work on (via email) will be made available to those I made promises to, when I have the time.

And if you're savvy-enough to script your own based on the current core ulcli in those driver packages, you can do so.

However, future drivers (which will include additional features and compatibility with additional programs) will generally be priced on a per device + per drive model (with some capacity variations). Small robot support will be relatively cheap, larger robot support will be more expensive.

Again, if you're happy with the driver sets currently available, please keep using them and please accept my many thanks for being wonderful beta testers.

-brendan

IamNemo

11-22-2008, 11:26 AM

Yoohoo!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:

bhoar

11-26-2008, 02:43 PM

For you kodak owners out there, it is possible to substitute a DVD drive in there.

Received a SAMSUNG SH-S222L today. Like most contemporary drives, it does not eject the tray as far as is required for robot use.

So, for the kodak, it require the following modifications:

1. Remove tray end.
2. Remove face plate.
3. Use nibbler tool to cut top front of metal casing back to allow a disc to move up and down from the tray without intersecting the top casing. The amount of cutting can be checked by powering up the drive, ejecting a tray and placing a disc in the tray. You can draw the cut area in felt pen. It's probably best to cut an additional 1-2mm more than is necessary.
4. Use dremel tool to remove enough of the center sides of the tray to allow the lifter flaps. Note that this tray is apparently a bit wider than the Teac tray (and slightly off-center) so you have to cut further in than you might initially think. Make sure that you round any edges in the outermost track so that it does not snag on eject/close. I had to switch tools from a large sander cylinder (for the bulk "cutting"/melting) to a small polisher to do the rounding and snag removal.

Also, removing the teac drive required:

1. Remove all 16 screws holding the robot insert and drive in place.
2. Remove all four alignment plates and put away for the future if you ever need to put the teac back in. Note that standard microboards units do not use these, they were in there to help with either faster manufacturering (no alignment step necessary) or with knowledge that the retail environment would likely lead to more stress on the equipment.
3. Slide both the robot insert and the drive forward a bit.
4. Use a small flathead screwdriver to loosen and remove the faceplate from the front of the drive housing.
5. Slide both the robot insert and the drive most of the way out of the unit.
6. You should be able to wiggle the drive past the "wards" on each side of the lifters by angling it down while lifting the robot insert up.
7. Disconnect the USB<->IDE bridge controller and power cable from the drive.

The USB cable is hot-glued to the bridge, but mine came loose. You might want to check that on reassembly.

Then you are ready to reverse the procedure with the samsung, sans alignment plates. I eyeballed the alignment, but in the case of this drive, alignment was with the kodak unit pushed in as far as it could go using the original holes and with the drive pushed *out* as far as it could go using the original holes.

Result: a drive that rips slower, on average, than the Teac. But it can also handles DVDs and lightscribe discs with some of my non-dbpoweramp scripts.

Took about an hour and a half to get right. Definitely check that the lifters have the airspace to move with the tray in the standard eject position before sending any robot commands. I did some of the final cutting and snag removal with the drive already installed after noticing I didn't quite have the clearance.

And also a warning: it's quite possible to totally hork the drive tray while doing this, go slow.

-brendan

bhoar

11-27-2008, 01:42 PM

Note:

1. I also used the dremel to sand down the four tiny clips inside the disc circle that help to keep the disc loaded if you install the drive vertically. These might interfere with lifting under some circumstances.

2. I repositioned the SH-S222L a couple mm further back. It was out just a tad too much, which meant the lifters weren't quite picking up the disc centered at tray level. Occasionally it would slip off the right lifter. Moving the drive back a bit should remedy this.

Note that the spindle lock also works to center discs as they are lifted and helps keep them centered during the lift. But if the lift starts off off-center to begin with it can slip off the lifter before it even gets up high enough for the spindle lock to keep it centered.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-10-2009, 08:19 PM

After installing dbpoweramp BatchRipper, Batch Converter, CD Ripper, CDWriter (all are registered),
I set up Robot - Kodak Kiosk with the TEAC - CD-W552DA drive on my Quad Core System.
I installed the Kodiak Kiosk autoLoader Drivers and installed the 2303 chipset from Prolific.

Although I can rip from the drive itself when I manually put it into the tray, I am getting no movement from the spindle nor the "wings". The discs will simply not load from the spindle.

Here are the things that I did and the results of those actions:

------------------------------------------------
BATCHRIPPER CONFIGURATION

Selected E: [TEAC - CD-W552DA]

Auto Eject - Manual Load Loader Testing:

Testing: Pre-Batch CLI
Command Line:

Errors From Testing: Error Running Loading Method (might be normal, if loader requires no action)

Testing: Post-Batch CLI
Command Line:

Errors From Testing: Error Running Loading Method (might be normal, if loader requires no action)

-------------------------------------------------------
BATCH RIPPER

After running Batch Ripper & selecting the Kodak Kiosk (TEAC CD-W552DA), I loaded up the spindle with about 10 CDs.
The arrow is pointing directly at the front screw.
I ran BatchRipper.

I then selected E: [TEAC - CD-W552DA] & clicked on the "Rip" button.

Results: The following two messages cycle back and forth
Loading CD
Posting-Load Waiting for CD

I let it go on for about 10 minutes and then gave up.

--------------------

CD RIPPER

Using the Kodak Kiosk (TEAC CD-W552DA), I loaded up the spindle with about 10 CDs.
I then ran dbpoweramp CD Ripper.
I selected E: [TEAC - CD-W552DA]
I manually hit eject on the tray and inserted a CD by hand.

After ripping was completed, the tray ejected automatically and just sat there. The disc was not removed from the tray,

nor did a new CD drop down.

I then received the following results from Batch:
Ripped 1 Discs
All (11) Secure

Then, the following messages cycle back and forth
Loading CD
Posting-Load Waiting for CD

I let it go on for about 10 minutes and then gave up.

--------------------
DEVICE MANAGER

Device Manager for the Kodak Kiosk only
Ports (COM & LPT)
Prolific USB-Serial COmm Port (COM3)
Universal Serial Bus Controllers
Generic USB Hub
USB Mass Storage Device
----------------------

HYPERTERMINAL

I ran Hyperterminal using COM3, 9600, 8N1, and Hardware Flow Control. I then typed "V". The result was "?" in the Hyperterminal window. I then typed "C" and the result was "?" in the Hyperterminal window. I hit return and got yet another "?".

Please advise.

computer-girl

bhoar

01-10-2009, 10:18 PM

Auto Eject - Manual Load Loader Testing:

You need to change that from "Auto Eject - Manual Load" to "Kodak Kiosk - 50 disc".

And then set each of the five command lines to the correct com port.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-10-2009, 11:38 PM

When I ran Batch Ripper Configuration, under Configured Drives it listed drive TEAC CD-WD552DA with "Auto Eject - Manual Load" written beside it. I clicked on the Edit button. Under the Loading Method, "Auto Eject - Manual Load" was the only option in the drop down box. Is there some other way I can set it up "to Kodak Kiosk - 50 disc"?

You need to change that from "Auto Eject - Manual Load" to "Kodak Kiosk - 50 disc".

And then set each of the five command lines to the correct com port.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-10-2009, 11:43 PM

Brendan,

I found my mistake. I did not install the Kiosk driver on this system as I thought I had. I have just installed it and will be testing it out. Thanks!

You need to change that from "Auto Eject - Manual Load" to "Kodak Kiosk - 50 disc".

And then set each of the five command lines to the correct com port.

-brendan

bhoar

01-11-2009, 03:24 AM

When I ran Batch Ripper Configuration, under Configured Drives it listed drive TEAC CD-WD552DA with "Auto Eject - Manual Load" written beside it. I clicked on the Edit button. Under the Loading Method, "Auto Eject - Manual Load" was the only option in the drop down box. Is there some other way I can set it up "to Kodak Kiosk - 50 disc"?

Download my driver from the batch ripper page:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

(scroll all the way down...)

-brendan

bhoar

01-11-2009, 03:27 AM

Brendan,

I found my mistake. I did not install the Kiosk driver on this system as I thought I had. I have just installed it and will be testing it out. Thanks!

Right. At minimum you need:

1. The Prolific 2303 USB device driver for Windows on this page: http://www.prolific.com.tw/eng/downloads.asp?ID=31

2. The dBpoweramp Reference download on this page: http://dbpoweramp.com/download.htm

3. The dbPoweramp Batch Ripper download on this page: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

4. The Kodak Kiosk "driver" for the batch ripper on the same page: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 08:41 AM

Thank you so much. It looks like the only step I left out was step 4, but it is all good now and I ripped6 tests discs from the robot. Hurray!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

computer-girl

Right. At minimum you need:

1. The Prolific 2303 USB device driver for Windows on this page: http://www.prolific.com.tw/eng/downloads.asp?ID=31

2. The dBpoweramp Reference download on this page: http://dbpoweramp.com/download.htm

3. The dbPoweramp Batch Ripper download on this page: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

4. The Kodak Kiosk "driver" for the batch ripper on the same page: http://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 04:16 PM

Problem: Unload Test under Kodak Kiosk 50 disc Loader Testing hangs & becomes unresponsive

I noticed that after I added a PX-230A, it was the drive that showed up as Kodak Kiosk in dbpoweramp configuration. I corrected this and I also changed the Teac USB drive back to Kodak Kiosk 50 and updated the COM port to COM3.

Then, in Kodak Kiosk 50 disc Loader Testing the following happens:

Load: Successful
Unload: Debug Output Running... Hangs right there.

What I did before: Changed some drive letters for my hard drives in Disk Management. Removed the Kodak Kiosk from the USB port. Disconnected and reconnected USB printer, mouse, and a USB memory stick. Also, as I stated before, I added a PX-230A to the system.

Also, Autorun came up while the USB Memory stick was inserted.
I have since removed the USB memory stick.

The Kiosk still has COM3 assigned to it.

Please advise,

computer-girl

bhoar

01-11-2009, 06:27 PM

1. Once you get thing set up, always plug the unit into the exact same USB port, so windows won't reassign optical drive letters.

2. Reboot.

3. Run the post-load manually, you probably have some of the temporary files showing an in-progress rip. This will clear things out.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 08:23 PM

How exactly do you do this?

3. Run the post-load manually, you probably have some of the temporary files showing an in-progress rip. This will clear things out.

-brendan

bhoar

01-11-2009, 08:27 PM

How exactly do you do this?

1. Batch Ripper Configuration.
2. Click the [Edit] button next to your configured drive.
3. On the fifth command line "Post-Batch CLI", to the right, there is a [Test] button. Click it.
4. At the top of the new window, click the Start Test button.
5. Click Close.
6. Click Configure Drive.
7. Click OK.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 08:44 PM

I tried it, but BR is stuck in Pre-Batch Action & I can't end the ripping. Also, In BC, the unload still hangs. Should I uninstall and re-install the applications?

1. Batch Ripper Configuration.
2. Click the [Edit] button next to your configured drive.
3. On the fifth command line "Post-Batch CLI", to the right, there is a [Test] button. Click it.
4. At the top of the new window, click the Start Test button.
5. Click Close.
6. Click Configure Drive.
7. Click OK.

-brendan

bhoar

01-11-2009, 08:56 PM

I tried it, but BR is stuck in Pre-Batch Action & I can't end the ripping. Also, In BC, the unload still hangs. Should I uninstall and re-install the applications?

Reboot, run post-batch.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 09:03 PM

I did this but it is still hanging. There is still a disc in the drive and the temp file is still dBB22.tmp after several attempts at manual unloading.

Reboot, run post-batch.

-brendan

bhoar

01-11-2009, 09:25 PM

I did this but it is still hanging. There is still a disc in the drive and the temp file is still dBB22.tmp after several attempts at manual unloading.

That temp file is dbpoweramp's, not the kodak driver's.

Ok, then go here: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temp

And delete all files that start with "ULCLI-". And then reboot.

Note: in the path above replace "Administrator" with your current user name, if different.

If it still doesn't work, then your setup is wrong somewhere.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 09:40 PM

That did not work for me. I uninstalled dbpoweramp, but of course, there is all kinds off stuff left in C:\Program Files\Illustrate\dBpoweramp, including batch ripper. How can I cleanly uninstall all of the apps associated with dbpoweramp, including batch ripper from all of the folders and in the registry so that I can do a clean re-install?

That temp file is dbpoweramp's, not the kodak driver's.

Ok, then go here: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Temp

And delete all files that start with "ULCLI-". And then reboot.

Note: in the path above replace "Administrator" with your current user name, if different.

If it still doesn't work, then your setup is wrong somewhere.

-brendan

bhoar

01-11-2009, 09:58 PM

Are you sure it's still on the same serial port it was before or the same one you have the batch ripper configured to?
Are you sure you have the right drive letter?
Are you sure you didn't put a typo into one or more of the five command lines?

-brendan

computer-girl

01-11-2009, 10:27 PM

Are you sure it's still on the same serial port it was
before or the same one you have the batch ripper configured to?

Yes

Are you sure you have the right drive letter?

No. I believe that the drive letter changed because after I added the PX-230A, BR thought that it was the it was the Kodak Kiosk 50 although I had configured the Teac as the Kodak Kiosk.

Are you sure you didn't put a typo into one or more of the five command lines?

Typos are always possible. Without a way to verify, a clean install is all I know to do to try to get it right.

Right now, I have uninstalled dbpoweramp but I have all of the other stuff hanging around. I'm trying not to reload my entire system at this time.

bhoar

01-11-2009, 10:35 PM

When the drive letters got incorrectly mapped, did you go into the batch ripper configuration screen, click Edit on the incorrectly Configured Drives and then click Set Drive as Unconfigured? That's how you fix that problem.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-12-2009, 09:45 AM

I did that, but Unload is still hanging.

When the drive letters got incorrectly mapped, did you go into the batch ripper configuration screen, click Edit on the incorrectly Configured Drives and then click Set Drive as Unconfigured? That's how you fix that problem.

-brendan

sredmyer

01-12-2009, 10:57 AM

Brendan,

Is the Mediatechnics model "Impact dp-400" supported by the Batch Ripper using your drivers? If so what is your opinion of this particular device as a automated ripper?

Thanks,

bhoar

01-12-2009, 12:24 PM

I did that, but Unload is still hanging.

Well, I'm out of ideas. It was working and now it isn't. Start from scratch on another machine?

-brendan

bhoar

01-12-2009, 12:33 PM

Is the Mediatechnics model "Impact dp-400" supported by the Batch Ripper using your drivers? If so what is your opinion of this particular device as a automated ripper?

I have a couple of these old horses stowed in the basement, but haven't tested them with the batch ripper. If I remember correctly, these are self-contained duplicators running an embedded DOS environment, headless. If you wanted to get it to work, you'd need to convert these into a peripheral for a windows machine, which means externalizing the serial connection to the robot controller and adding bridge boards for all the drives. They are probably SCSI drives, so you'd probably also need to upgrade all the drives as well to physically compatible ones. And finally, the picker is a bit old school and was developed when drives, or more specifically trays, were heavier duty than contemporary drives are...it comes down a bit hard on the trays before the tray detect switch tells the motor to stop.

With that said, it probably works with my One-bank/multiple-drives driver, but note that is not free (it is priced per drive).

-brendan

sredmyer

01-12-2009, 01:36 PM

I have a couple of these old horses stowed in the basement, but haven't tested them with the batch ripper. If I remember correctly, these are self-contained duplicators running an embedded DOS environment, headless. If you wanted to get it to work, you'd need to convert these into a peripheral for a windows machine, which means externalizing the serial connection to the robot controller and adding bridge boards for all the drives. They are probably SCSI drives, so you'd probably also need to upgrade all the drives as well to physically compatible ones. And finally, the picker is a bit old school and was developed when drives, or more specifically trays, were heavier duty than contemporary drives are...it comes down a bit hard on the trays before the tray detect switch tells the motor to stop.

With that said, it probably works with my One-bank/multiple-drives driver, but note that is not free (it is priced per drive).

-brendan

Sounds like a bit more in depth than I care to go with it. So I guess I will just skip this one.

Thanks for the info,

computer-girl

01-12-2009, 09:50 PM

Thanks, Brendan.

I have performed a clean install of XP, & dBPoweramp. I am in the process of configuring the PX-230A and PX-708A & testing them out. I will then create a system Image (True Image). I will then install the Kodak Kiosk, configure it, test it & then Image the system again. From there, if I run into anymore problems, I will have the option of troubleshooting (preferred) or restoring the system to its properly working state.

Well, I'm out of ideas. It was working and now it isn't. Start from scratch on another machine?

-brendan

computer-girl

01-13-2009, 12:44 PM

Am I required to use Burst mode for the Kiosk rather than Secure? I have read in the forums that someone recommended that Secure ripping should NOT be used on USB drives.

bhoar

01-13-2009, 12:53 PM

Am I required to use Burst mode for the Kiosk rather than Secure? I have read in the forums that someone recommended that Secure ripping should NOT be used on USB drives.

No. You may use Secure ripping.

The dbpoweramp USB issue, now fixed, was specific to C2 flags, which are only available for use in Secure mode. So, it wasn't secure mode per se, but the use of C2 flags that was at issue.

While C2 flags are optional, they are recommended if the drive supports them well. The Teac CD-W552DA drive in the Kodak units does, indeed, support C2 flags very well.

For 13.1 Spoon made several changes to the buffer-handling to better handle finicky bridge chipsets and certain other issues for both USB and Firewire. Now C2 works well over almost all USB and Firewire bridges (the Sony XL1B bridge being a notable exception).

Summary: with the Kodak unit, you will get the best results by enabling Secure ripping, setting the cache to 0, enabling C2 pointers and disabling the cache clear (since the drive doesn't accept the cache clear command, but that's moot anyway as the audio cache is 0 bytes anyway). The rest of the secure ripping configuration depends purely on your needs, so read up on how to configure secure ripping.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-13-2009, 01:13 PM

Great! Thanks for the additional info.

No. You may use Secure ripping.

The dbpoweramp USB issue, now fixed, was specific to C2 flags, which are only available for use in Secure mode. So, it wasn't secure mode per se, but the use of C2 flags that was at issue.

While C2 flags are optional, they are recommended if the drive supports them well. The Teac CD-W552DA drive in the Kodak units does, indeed, support C2 flags very well.

For 13.1 Spoon made several changes to the buffer-handling to better handle finicky bridge chipsets and certain other issues for both USB and Firewire. Now C2 works well over almost all USB and Firewire bridges (the Sony XL1B bridge being a notable exception).

Summary: with the Kodak unit, you will get the best results by enabling Secure ripping, setting the cache to 0, enabling C2 pointers and disabling the cache clear (since the drive doesn't accept the cache clear command, but that's moot anyway as the audio cache is 0 bytes anyway). The rest of the secure ripping configuration depends purely on your needs, so read up on how to configure secure ripping.

-brendan

computer-girl

01-13-2009, 10:44 PM

I did a clean install of XP & Illustrate on my Quad core system.
I was able to successfully rip from my PX-230A and PX-708A. I was unable to successfully rip or batch rip from the Kodak Kiosk this time, though I was able to get it to work before the clean install. Unfortunately, I don't remember the settings I used as it was the first time loading the app. I tried about 10 different disks, all clean, unscratched, and capable of being ripped on the Plextors. Here is my logfile for one disc. I did notice that the only tracks that could be ripped by the Teac were tracks that were very brief (for example, 45 secs. long.

NOTE: Mark Track as Error if Insecure is UNCHECKED.

Perhaps my settings are wrong?

I don't have another system to try this out on at this time.

computer-girl

-----------------

dBpoweramp Release 13.1 Digital Audio Extraction Log from Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:34 PM

Drive & Settings
----------------

Ripping with drive 'H: [TEAC - CD-W552DA ]', Drive offset: 6, Overread Lead-in/out: No
AccurateRip: Active, Using C2: Yes, Cache: None, FUA Cache Invalidate: No
Pass 1 Drive Speed: Max, Pass 2 Drive Speed: Max
Ultra:: Vary Drive Speed: No, Min Passes: 1, Max Passes: 6, Finish After Clean Passes: 1
Bad Sector Re-rip:: Drive Speed: Max, Maximum Re-reads: 50

Encoder: FLAC -compression-level-5 -verify

Extraction Log
--------------

Track 1: ERROR Ripping LBA 32 to 15955 (3:32) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 01 - Back from the Dead.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 916 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 15955)

Track 2: ERROR Ripping LBA 15955 to 32740 (3:43) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 02 - I'm a Swing It.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 16371 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 32740)

Track 3: ERROR Ripping LBA 32740 to 39210 (1:26) in 0:03. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 03 - All That.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 35522 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 39210)

Track 4: ERROR Ripping LBA 39210 to 56375 (3:48) in 0:03. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 04 - On Point.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 42356 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 56375)

Track 5: ERROR Ripping LBA 56375 to 71180 (3:17) in 0:04. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 05 - Runnin' Up on Ya'.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 61471 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 71180)

Track 6: ERROR Ripping LBA 71180 to 87105 (3:32) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 06 - Over There Shit.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 73000 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 87105)

Track 7: ERROR Ripping LBA 87105 to 105270 (4:02) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 07 - Word Is Bond.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 88977 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 105270)

Track 8: ERROR Ripping LBA 105270 to 122132 (3:44) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 08 - Keep It Comin'.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 106726 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 122132)

Track 9: Ripped LBA 122132 to 125547 (0:45) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 09 - Interlude.flac
AccurateRip: Accurate (confidence 11) [Pass 1]
CRC32: F0D2A88A AccurateRip CRC: 0FDBE1C9 [DiscID: 015-001a9f6e-012dfa20-bd0b930f-9]

Track 10: ERROR Ripping LBA 125547 to 141135 (3:27) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 10 - Same as It Ever Was.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 126821 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 141135)

Track 11: ERROR Ripping LBA 141135 to 156720 (3:27) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 11 - It Ain't a Crime.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 141993 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 156720)

Track 12: ERROR Ripping LBA 156720 to 174905 (4:02) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 12 - Where I'm From.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 157760 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 174905)

Track 13: ERROR Ripping LBA 174905 to 187937 (2:53) in 0:02. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 13 - Still Got a Lotta Love.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 176725 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 187937)

Track 14: ERROR Ripping LBA 187937 to 206262 (4:04) in 0:01. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 14 - Who's the Man¿.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 188587 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 206262)

Track 15: ERROR Ripping LBA 206262 to 222245 (3:33) in 0:03. Filename: C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Music\House of Pain\Same as It Ever Was\House of Pain - 15 - On Point.flac
Unable to read CD, check CD disc (frame LBA 210084 ripping 26 frames track end LBA 222245)

--------------

15 Tracks Ripped: 1 Accurate, 14 Could Not Be Ripped

bhoar

01-14-2009, 02:36 AM

cg:

Ok, we're not even in the realm of robot stuff here, this is just the drive and/or driver-connection chain misbehaving, I think.

First off, for shins and pebbles, try setting the rip type to burst, see if that works at all.

How well was the teac drive working when you received it? Perfectly?

How many discs did you successfully rip before you switched around the drives and the drive letters changed and everything broke?

Did you by any chance install any software around the same time (e.g. Plextor software or drivers)?

About how long is it spending on each failed track in the log above?

The only other thing that comes to mind that could be causing this sort of problem:

1. Bad USB cable or computer does not have USB 2.0 ports. I'm not joking about the USB cable, I've had two that caused mysterious symptoms in the past. Find the shortest and thickest USB cable you can find and use that.

2. Filter drivers. Since you reinstalled windows, I doubt that's the problem, but it's worth investigating to see (I usually use ImgBurn's option to copy the filter list to the clipboard).

3. A cable or connection inside the case is problematic (e.g. the USB<->IDE bridge might be slightly loose).

4. The Teac drive is failing (hopefully not).

-brendan

computer-girl

01-14-2009, 11:05 PM

BINGO!

Bad cable. Bad, bad cable!

I restored my image with all the Illustrate software loaded and the Kodak Kiosk drivers & chipset installed. I then took the USB cable from my printer and hooked it up to the Kodak Kiosk. Then, I configured the TEAC drive. It worked! In Secure mode, I might add. I ripped 55 CDs tonight! I only have 1100 to go, but I am very happy that Batch Ripper along with the Kodak Kiosk will make this task so much easier.

Thank you so much Brendan.

BTW, I have both a 708A and 230A (IDE of course) connected to the same system as the Kiosk. If I choose say the 230A to run concurrently with the TEAC drive can I do so without the fear of either drive being kicked into PIO mode?

Regards,

computer-girl

cg:

1. Bad USB cable .... I'm not joking about the USB cable, I've had two that caused mysterious symptoms in the past. Find the shortest and thickest USB cable you can find and use that.

-brendan

bhoar

01-15-2009, 01:11 AM

CG:

Glad to hear it is working again.

Yeah, I think the primary issue isn't necessarily always "bad" cables...even "marginal" ones that work in other applications can fail here. Inside the case, there's what's sometimes called a pigtail (or a very short length of cable) between the back of the case and the internal USB hub. The added pigtail length and the need for an extra pair of coupling connectors in the signal path can make marginal cables unworkable.

As for the IDE drives, that's a crap shoot. If you're using vista, it may be less of an issue. With XP, could be a problem. At the very worst, if one of the manually loaded drives acts up, you can always cancel the rip on that drive and just stop feeding it any more discs. Just remember to remedy the PIO problem before the next reboot using the standard techniques.

-brendan

AgentX

01-18-2009, 09:34 PM

So are we going to support the Primera Bravo II Disc Publisher in future versions? if so and if you need a tester I have one available :)

Spoon

01-19-2009, 03:13 AM

Yes in the next 3 weeks.

AgentX

01-19-2009, 05:57 PM

sweet! you guys are the greatest, gives me a reason to upgrade from R12, any idea what the total cost would be (R13+batch ripper for the Bravo II) or do i have to wait 3 weeks to find out lol. I do agree Spoon = Da Man!

Spoon

01-20-2009, 03:06 AM

$36

bhoar

01-27-2009, 04:35 PM

On another note, do you have any suggestions on how to speed up the post-load/pre-MetaData lookup wait time? Using the Kodak robot, I seem to be waiting a couple of minutes before the MetaDat lookup occurs. Note: I have turned off all AutoPlay functionality in the Vista control panel.

todd -

I've been having a discussion off the board with another Vista user about this.

It appears Vista is doing something really stupid on disc insert and it may not be fixable in software. It only occurs with Vista *and* the ALi m5621 USB<->IDE bridge chip *and* the Teac drive - swapping a different drive in "fixes" it, as done using the Teac drive with a different bridge chipset. What happens is that soon after the disc is inserted, the usbstor.sys driver provokes the bridge chipset into not responding for 2-5 minutes or so. If you look in the Event Log, System sub-area, you see that 1000s of "bad block" errors are being logged for the device. At some point the bridge and OS driver stop arguing and everything works fine again. I'd say this happens on every two out of three disc inserts.

Again it's only with vista, the bridge and that teac drive. Swap out any of the three and everything works fine. So for now, stick to XP.

The above systems are regardless of what software is running, you can see the (non-)result just by watching explorer.

-brendan

hofftodd

01-27-2009, 10:30 PM

Brendan,

Thanks for the update. I'm just going to be patient with my current Vista setup. I've taken the tact of putting in a stack of discs and forgetting about it for the rest of the day. I then come back and sort through the rejects. It takes longer than it should (+3-6 minutes per disc), but the Kodak Kiosk is doing the work, not me :).

If I ever rebuild this system, I'll definitely be down-grading back to XP for this and other reasons.

Keep you the good work, and thanks for keeping all of us Kiosk owners informed!

Todd

darkbane

01-29-2009, 04:37 PM

Hi
I've just bought a CeDaR DTP4000 (Identical to Rimage DTP4000).
I've already read the mods I need to do in order to bring out a serial port in the wiki.. but got a pair of questions left:

1) I've read a DTP800 driver is in the works.. any news about it?
2) In the wiki there's written I need a Firewire to IDE/SATA.. but why Firewire? Wouldn't an USB to IDE or Sata be more practical than FW? (or better yet, a direct ESATA connection?)

Thanks!
Lo.

computer-girl

02-02-2009, 11:26 PM

Brendan,

I really want to thank you, Spoon, any unnamed illustrate developers and the great forum members here.

I ripped about 1300 CDs to FLAC in 9 days time using mostly the Kodak Kiosk and one computer. I have a PX230A and a PX-708A on the same system that picked up the slack for bad reads on the Kiosk. I only have about 9 disks that are totally unreadable and that I will need to replace.

You guys have created excellent products and a very smart and helpful community of forum members here.

Please keep up the great work!

computer-girl

darkbane

02-07-2009, 01:36 PM

bhoar

02-07-2009, 01:46 PM

cg:

You're welcome, glad it worked out. For the record how many CDs did you have have trouble using on the Teac drive and what improvement, if any, did you see with the 230a and 708a?

Did you run into any other robot-related issues?

-brendan

bhoar

02-07-2009, 02:07 PM

Hi
I dismounted my DTP4000 to find the serial debug connector, and somewhat I found it, even tho is 5 pin instead of the 4 described in the first posts.

I've managed to connect a serial cable to it, but all that I get is garbage on the screen..

I've tried all the speeds from 300bps to 115200, 8N1.. same result..only garbage.

I read some of you did make this cable... do you remember if you had similar issues?

Thanks!

db:

To be honest, the old DTP1000/DTP4000 series aren't worth the time. Especially the SCSI ones.

If you look closely at the DTP series documentation, you have to use the alignment tool to configure them for the thickness of your blank discs measured at the spindle. This was kind of acceptable when one was buying blank discs in bulk, you'd have to run the tool once per 100/1000/5000 discs. But if you're CD ripping, you are going to have a mixture of different thinkness discs back to back in the input pile.

Therefore I've found that these units are nearly useless for CD ripping. And I should know, I've got about 9 of them in the basement. That's the reason the driver for the non-scsi units was removed (and the driver for the scsi units was never posted), they just weren't working reliably.

-brendan

darkbane

02-07-2009, 05:22 PM

Thanks for the quick reply

Actually, I don't need it for ripping but for burning multiple discs (what it was meant for!) but instead of simple replication, I wanted to use it to automate my backups...

..and I do buy blanks in bulk, always same vendor & type (Verbatim Datalife Plus) so even that would not pose a problem..

I've even tried COM Inspector (an utility that tries every possible combination of COM Speed, Bits of stop, flow control etc) but even then I was unable to obtain noting short of garbage from the serial port connector..

Since you have some in the basement, do you remember if they had something 'strange' in their serial connection?

It seems to me that the robot of choice is now the Kodak one, but I've been unable to find any on Ebay since months, and so I think it has become a rarity..

Thanks!

bhoar

02-07-2009, 05:39 PM

I can't find my notes on these (I grew frustrated with them), but...

Try both 19200bps and 14400bps rates. Try each of the following: S, SV, I and IC. Then try those four but with an enter at the end of each.

Anything?

Regarding the Kodaks: you can't find them on ebay because I bought the warehouse out and now resell them, now with software and 90-day warranty, for $300+$30 S/H. This includes a windows script that watches the tray and swaps old disc out/swaps new disc in when the tray opens.

-brendan

darkbane

02-07-2009, 05:56 PM

Hi

Thanks for the quick reply and the infos

As a matter of fact, I didn't try 14400, nor COM inspector did, so I have some hope for tomorrow! (I'm at work right now) THANKS!

As for the Kodak.. That's great news for ComputerGirl, as she was seeking to buy one.. but as for me, that's too much.

I paid my DTP4000 just $50 at a local shop with 4 plextor 12x drives loaded and 2 Waitec spares.. They warned me that most likely there was no way to make it run, but I bough it just to play with it so I think I got what I deserved :)

Btw, I do live in Italy so I fear shipping cost would be way higher than $30 :(

Again, thanks for your help! I'll keep you updated

bhoar

02-07-2009, 06:02 PM

Yeah, the $30 is for US addresses. Shipping a unit to austria was about $125.

Let me know how it works out.

CG was able to find a kodak unit at the cheaper price last month due to a communication breakdown between the warehouse and I (since corrected)...but it worked out just fine for her. :)

-brendan

darkbane

02-08-2009, 12:09 PM

Hi Bhoar
I've tried 7200 and 14400, along with the usual set (9600,19200 etc), but no luck..
If you ever came to find your old docs, could you please verify if you connector was 5 pins too, and how you hooked it to your serial port?

Of course I'm keeping trying, but alas Com Inspector doesn't allow to input 'strange' com speed ports..

Many thanks!

bhoar

02-08-2009, 01:57 PM

db:

My oldest notes, before I made my scripts a bit more complicated and error tolerant say this should work...but even the notes weren't really sure 19200 was right:

Suggestion 9: RImage DTP-800/DTP-1000/DTP-4000 Older SCSI using debug port serial connection (double check speed) - UNTESTED

Pre-Batch --drive="G:" --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --close --command=MU --bindresetall --sleep=2
Load --drive="G:" --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --close --command=CR --command=OI --command=MD --command=R --command=MU --open --command=MD --command=P --command=MU --close --sleep=10 ; in case disc recognition or spinup takes a while, depends on drive
Unload --drive="G:" --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --open --command=CR --command=CI --command=MD --command=R --command=MU --close --command=MD --command=P --command=MU
Reject --drive="G:" --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --open --command=CR --command=MD --command=R --command=MU --close --command=OR --command=MD --command=P --command=MU --command=CR
Post-Batch --drive="G:" --comport=COM2 --comspeed=19200 --close --command=MU

-brendan

darkbane

02-08-2009, 06:22 PM

Hi Brendan

I did see this in one of your first posts on this thread, but alas, 19200 does not work on my unit..
Maybe the firmware is corrupted (but I doubt it,since it seems to pass the diagnostic and can move the arm without any problem) or something like that..

If you have the time to take a look at one of your units.. I would greatly appreciate that.
when I'm back at home I'll take a picture of my DTP4000 mainboard & serial connector.. just to see it it is any different from yours...

Thanks again!

bhoar

02-08-2009, 06:33 PM

db - the SCSI unit I opened up to play with the serial header is buried deep within the basement, it ain't seeing the light of day anytime soon. sorry. :(

-brendan

computer-girl

02-08-2009, 10:03 PM

Brendan,

Out of the approximately 1250 to 1300 CDs, here is the breakdown:

I DID NOT perform any pre-cleaning. Most of my discs are in good condition and are scratched very little, if at all. I also handle my discs by their edges.

I loaded appx 1200 to 1250 through the Teac FIRST. If those discs failed due to read errors, I cleaned them up using rubbing alcohol & lint free cloths and ran them through the PX-230a and PX-708A.

I also loaded appx. 100 through the PX-230a and PX-708A FIRST. If those discs failed due to read errors, I swapped between the two drives to try to get a better read for the failed tracks only.

Now, after running the 1200 to 1250 CDs through the Teac, maybe 20 to 30 discs total did not get ripped at all (MSG I received was that the disc was not loaded). I reloaded all of those discs and probably half of them got ripped the second time. I also learned to put a manilla folder under the rear of the Kiosk so that the front would tip slightly downward. This helped with getting the discs to load properly.

I would estimate that about 50 to 100 discs going through the Teac had one or more tracks with errors, so I took those 50 discs, ran my ultra secure ripping using the PX-230A and/or PX708A. If the disc had no scratches, I ran it through the PX-230A first, and if it had scratches, I ran it through the PX-708A first. I swapped between the 2 drives in the event of a failure. Only 10 CDs failed to get ripped in their entirety, no matter which of the three drives I used.

Out of those 10 CDs that could not be ripped using any of my drives, 2 CDs were brand new but one came with a scratch, so I am guessing the non scratched new CD had a pressing problem. 5 of the CDs were from 1988-1992 & I had listened to them over the years, and 2 were HORRIBLY, HORRIBLY scratched. Out of the those 10 CDs, I will only have to replace 7 CDs because 3 CDs whose tracks failed to rip I already have from other CDs in my collection.

I must say that I was very pleased with the performance of the Teac drive in the Kodak Kiosk, considering the number of CDs that I ran though that drive.

Now, the only problem that I had early on in the process was that I once ripped overnight to a hard drive that eventually filled up. Once there was no more room on drive D to which I was ripping, I kept getting error messages from the batch ripper (sorry I don't remember the exact error message because I reloaded my system soon after and that batch report got wiped out). However, I think that had something to do with not being able to open a tmp file. I know boxes kept popping up after each failure. Then a new CD was loaded and batch ripper tried to rip that new one. So even though I had no more drive space on drive "D", the batch ripper did not terminate.

Lastly, a few drives run through batch ripper using the TEAC reported no database information, but when I ran them through the Plextors using batch ripper, I got the data. I configured for both automatic and also for manual input & review which then loaded the correct data.

I hope this information helps.

BTW, I took my 81 year old Dad's flac files (part of the total 1350 CDs), batch converted them to Mp3 and put them on his system. Of course, he said that he could just pop his CDs into his Bose Wave Music System if he wanted to listen to his music, why should I bother with ripping his collection, but of course I insisted and went forward with my plan. The next thing I knew, I heard someone crooning to Ray Charles in the family room. It was my Dad, singing to his Mp3's. He sang all day long and into the night going from Nat King Cole to Gino Federico to 80's disco. When I told him how quickly I converted his music and that now all of it was backed up in the event that his system ever crashed, he was very impressed! So my Dad thanks you as well!

cg:

You're welcome, glad it worked out. For the record how many CDs did you have have trouble using on the Teac drive and what improvement, if any, did you see with the 230a and 708a?

Did you run into any other robot-related issues?

-brendan

computer-girl

02-08-2009, 10:08 PM

I am one of the lucky few who caught one of the last of the Kiosks on sale on ebay.

Hi

Thanks for the quick reply and the infos

As a matter of fact, I didn't try 14400, nor COM inspector did, so I have some hope for tomorrow! (I'm at work right now) THANKS!

As for the Kodak.. That's great news for ComputerGirl, as she was seeking to buy one.. but as for me, that's too much.

I paid my DTP4000 just $50 at a local shop with 4 plextor 12x drives loaded and 2 Waitec spares.. They warned me that most likely there was no way to make it run, but I bough it just to play with it so I think I got what I deserved :)

Btw, I do live in Italy so I fear shipping cost would be way higher than $30 :(

Again, thanks for your help! I'll keep you updated

darkbane

02-09-2009, 06:32 AM

Well, thanks for trying bhoar!

I guess that now, after 3 days trying every possible serial setting I'm at a dead end.. so my unit will go in the basement too.. :)

Btw, If you ever come by one of your units, and have the time to take a look... I'll take it back from the basement and up to my lab again ;)

Again, many thanks!
D.

defib

02-09-2009, 05:27 PM

I have the robotics alignment tool for the serial 800/1000/4000 units. I used it to get all the commands for the RAS6 I got off of ebay. Not sure if it would help but I could email it too you if ya want.

Well, thanks for trying bhoar!

I guess that now, after 3 days trying every possible serial setting I'm at a dead end.. so my unit will go in the basement too.. :)

Btw, If you ever come by one of your units, and have the time to take a look... I'll take it back from the basement and up to my lab again ;)

Again, many thanks!
D.

bhoar

02-09-2009, 05:41 PM

I have the robotics alignment tool for the serial 800/1000/4000 units. I used it to get all the commands for the RAS6 I got off of ebay. Not sure if it would help but I could email it too you if ya want.

Does it work with the SCSI-controlled units, serial-controlled units or both?

I believe I have only the SCSI versions of these utilities. IIRC, the RAS6 is equivalent to the DTP-800?

-brendan

defib

02-09-2009, 06:10 PM

As far as I know it works with the serial controlled units only. But take that with a grain of salt. I don't have a scsi unit. Yes the ras6 firmware reports as a DTP-800. If you want the serial commands I can send you a list I have most of them now. I can also send you the utility if you want.

bhoar

02-09-2009, 07:41 PM

defib

02-10-2009, 08:49 AM

That would be great, on both parts.

-brendan
Emailed it too you last night. Let me know if you have any questions.

X-O

02-12-2009, 04:30 AM

It is our aim to support the latest models from:

Primera
MF Digital
RImage
R-Quest

hello
we have media thecnics fusion-mx X5.1a
we already contact B. HOAR and get from him -generic big loader rev 2
we use com 1 comspeed 38400
dBpoweramp reference R13 and Batch Ripper work if we select 1 drive.

If we select 2 or 3 or 4 drives the robot get crazy :
"Pre-Batch.exe meets a problem ..... send a error message ? "
then drive 1 is locked on Pre-Batch
and the robot tries to reject a CD which is not in the a drive 2
waiting a few seconds, we get "problem on com1 ... shutting down"

We know we are administrator and cd clone has been uninstall (5 october 20008).

What can we do?
- reinstall windows and all stuff
- use an external computer intel, instead of ASUS internal mother board
of robot with AMD Athlon 64 X2 ?
- try to modify generic big loader drivers ?
-

We would love to work with dBpa but today it is not possible.

Thanks in advance for your help. May be it is a small mistake.

X-O

bhoar

02-12-2009, 08:29 AM

Emailed it too you last night. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure the 1000/4000 tool you sent is only for the SCSI units, unfortunately. :(

-brendan

bhoar

02-12-2009, 08:30 AM

X-O: Please contact me via email for support. See my signature.

-brendan

defib

02-13-2009, 04:22 PM

It could be... all I have is an 800

Thanks. I'm pretty sure the 1000/4000 tool you sent is only for the SCSI units, unfortunately. :(

-brendan

darkbane

02-14-2009, 12:17 AM

Hi Defib!

I got a SCSI unit, so if you could kindly send it to me, I could try it!
I have a driver I found on the net, but reportedly it works only up to Windows 2k.. what machine you were using your unit on?

you can send the file to:
ilgrancaliffo -at- hotmail -dot- com

Many thanks!

darkbane

02-14-2009, 12:39 PM

YATTA! I DID IT! :)

I found out that in order to work, the serial connection needs more than the usual TX,RX and Gnd, it also needs pin 4: DTR (Data Terminal Ready).. strange, but true.

The command set is the one Bohar put in page 2 of this thread (MD,MU, etc)

The only issue is that I think I killed the picker.. it is activated (as I found later, when it ceased to work) that it has an electromagnet in it that gets hot if put in the release position for more than a few seconds..I did not know that, and now it is toast (so just after issuing a drop cd command, you should IMMEDIATELY issue a pick command otherwise you'll ruin it)

..now I hope to find a replacement.. anyone with a faulty DTP* unit wishing to sell me the picker? :)

D.

darkbane

02-16-2009, 02:56 AM

darkbane

02-16-2009, 04:16 AM

@Brendan

I've been able to find both the SCSI and the SERIAL alignment utilities!
I've seen a post of yours in another forum dated a couple of years ago where you asked for it.. still need it?
It is marked for DTP1000 only tho

Let me know if it can be of any use to you!

bhoar

02-16-2009, 07:58 AM

UPDATE: Replaced the picker electromagnet and now the whole thing works..
I've made a batch script that echoes commands thru the serial port and It can do basic pick-up, move arm and open reject tray... of course since the drives themselves are not controlled by the serial commands, it would need a new layer software to open/close trays and so on..

Since my project it to use it as a backup solution, I'll have to find a burning program capable of executing external commands before/after burn (the after part is handled by many programs.. any hints for some that is capable of executing something before starting burning?)

Many thanks to everyone who helped!

db: if you pick apart my drivers for any of the robots, you'll find that all five of the commands are the same executable, they're just called with different command line options. run the command with no options (e.g. post-batch.exe) in a cmd window and you'll find you have the utility you seek, you'll get a usage statement. it was written to work with batch files too, and can handle drive tray actions as well. might be less confusing if you make a copy and rename it ulcli.exe...that's the original name. Feel free to reuse a portion of my robot driver for personal use unrelated to dbpoweramp.

Regarding burning programs, I recommend imgburn, it can be controlled via command line options via a batch file.

@Brendan

I've been able to find both the SCSI and the SERIAL alignment utilities!
I've seen a post of yours in another forum dated a couple of years ago where you asked for it.. still need it?
It is marked for DTP1000 only tho

Let me know if it can be of any use to you!

Yep, definitely useful. Please send my way.

-brendan

lz44

02-17-2009, 09:41 AM

Hi!

Does Batch Ripper work with the Rimage 2000i?
Any experiences?

Thanks!

castor1350

02-18-2009, 09:53 AM

darkbane: Congratulations on your success with your DTP unit. I have a few questions for you.

1. I have a DTP-1000 SCSI version and was wondering if you could tell me more about how to hook up my own com port? Or possibly post some pictures of your install?

2. You mentioned you found some drivers/alignment utilities for SCSI and non SCSI versions. Could you point me in the right direction of finding those?

3. I have not burned out my electromagnet, but I am very curious on how you did replace it, just in case I do burn it out someday. Where did you get the electromagnet from? If you got it from another electrical device, I was wondering if you could tell me the model of the device you took it from?

4. I was also wondering if your pictures could include a picture of the ribbon cable that goes up and down with the arm? The other day the ribbon wasn't moving with the robotic arm and ended up snapping in half on me, so I'm going to try and repair the ribbon cable (with sandpaper and tape), but wanted to verify it's correct placement.

Thanks so much.

Castor

kretch

02-19-2009, 10:58 AM

Now that I've gotten my kodak kiosks to work, I'm wondering if it's possible to hook up multiple kiosks to one computer?

Thanks
Kretch

kretch

02-19-2009, 11:23 AM

... And also, does anybody know whether the old model (Kiosk G3) will work as well?

Thanks much
Kretch

darkbane

02-19-2009, 12:52 PM

Hi
Sorry for the delay, here's a quick and incomplete guide I wrote to help you and everybody else that has a DTP4000:

Experimental SERIAL port control for SCSI DTP1000/4000
Written by Daevon (ilgrancaliffo -at- hotmail.com)
Version 0.2 18 Feb 2009

1) The HARDWARE
Since the SCSI DTP1000/4000 use a proprietary driver to send commands to the control board and since this driver won't work on machines other than Win 9x, NT4 and Windows 2000, the solutions to continue using it on newer machines are either
- Putting up a windows 2000 machine with a SCSI interface and use the rimage drivers
- connect the serial debug connector on the mainboard to a serial-equipped pc (any OS) and use the drives standalone (either the native scsi ones with a proper controller or newer, even dvd, units, connected with ESATA (preferred), or USB/Firewire to ATA/SATA. This is the way I'm going to cover.

To access the DTP main board you have to slightly unscrew the two screws on the top-right of the unit. Remove the side panel. You'll see the board in the lower left corner, with the scsi cable connected to it.

Looking at the main board, at the top there's an unused 5 pin connector named J13 that looks like this:

J13 5_/////_1

If you're lucky and it is still there, you can re-use the printer cable connector: it goes from the back of the unit (near the 3 scsi ports) to the lower part of the mainboards. It has 6 pins, but it will fit nicely on the serial one.. of course you'll need some basic soldering skill.

Connect the pins this way:

J13 Connector-> Female DB9
1-------------->2
2-------------->3
3-------------->4
4-------------->Not Connected
5-------------->5

Now you should have a working serial connection.

2) THE SOFTWARE
Once you have hooked it, open your favorite terminal program (I suggest PUTTY) and configure it to the appropriate COM port with the following settings:

COMx (The serial port your DTP is connected to)
19200 Speed
8 Bits
N No parity
1 Bit stop
P Hardware parity or no parity at all.

Power on your unit, you should read some (brief) test, like:

Firmware revision 4.0A

The basic commands are:

MD ----> Move Picker all the way down
MDxxx -> where xxx are hex values from 1 to 2000 (dec 1 to 8192) moves the picker downwards by the specified amount eg. MD88C
MU ----> same as MD, but upwards.
MUxxx -> same as MDxxx, but upwards.
MH ----> Moves the picker to the topmost (home) position
OI ----> Open lower drawer (ie, switch to the second position)
CI ----> Close lower drawer
OI ----> Open Reject drawer
CI ----> Close Reject drawer
P -----> Drops the CD (WARNING: ISSUE A "R" IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS! See notes)
R -----> Returns the picker hand to the normal position

(If you happen to discover some other command,like the one that senses it the picker has a disk, please let me know!)

EXAMPLE: To pick up a cd, simply issue an MD command,wait for the arm to reach the lowemost position, then issue an MU200. Your picker should have a cd now!

***You need to wait for each command to complete before issuing the following one, or it will get ignored. Since there are no return codes on the SCSI units, you simply have to look at the unit and wait for the issued command to complete

EXAMPLE: Now try to issue an MH, followed by an OR, P, R, DR.
If everything is working correctly, the CD it has picked before will be dropped in the reject drawer and the drawer will close.

3) MISC FINDINGS
a)The range of the picker seems to be around 6800 (1A90 hex). IE: It will go from 0 (home) to touching the lower cassette if you issue an:

MD1A90

b)The picker is not very precise at all.
ie: if you input:
MDFF
MDFF
MDFF
MDFF
MDFF
MDFF
MDFF
MDFF
MU800
(wich means: go down eight times by 256, then go up by 2048, wich is exactly 256x8) it WON'T return to the same position it started in. It will be close enough tho.

4) THANKS to:
Bhoar (Brendan) at the dbpoweramp forum for the IMMENSE help he gave me: without him this guide would not have been possible.

The guys (and gals!) at the dbpoweramp forum for sharing their findings and wisdom

This guide is an early attemp at reverting an old DTP4000 to functionality. It most likely full of errors, mistakes, misconceptions and so on... please bear with me and if you have more detailed infos.. share them! :)

Btw, I take absolutely no responsability if your DTP makes an horrible death based on what you did read here..

Now Have fun with your DTP unit!
-Daevon