HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

[Goes To 11]

OK, I started reading this thread yesterday http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...highlight=hdcd which eventually led me to a GaryM suggestion to read this thread:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?27540-Ripping-HDCDs-Best-practices/page3&highlight=Hdcd+best+practices

I'm not smart enough to totally understand all I read there, but basically I am now thinking that I made a big mistake ripping my CDs with the DSP for HDCD on, particularly with the +6 db default checked. All I want to do is play my files using a Logitech Squeezebox Touch, and whatever replaces it some day when it dies.

My HDCD for dummies question, is my suspicion generally correct? If so, is there a tool I can run to easily see which files I ripped that way, so that I can re-rip them if I want to?

[Spoon]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

I do not think you made a mistake as your player cannot decode HDCD, so the software would have to do it at ripping otherwise you get a non-hdcd result.

[garym]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

This DSP had no effect on your nonHDCD rips. And there are very few HDCD releases anyhow. In my case it is primarily grateful dead CDs. And by the way, I can't detect any difference in playback* with or without the hdcd DSP, or even playing the HDCD CDs on a hdcd CD player. I think the benefits of hdcd are subtle at best. You can find lots of discussion on this on the web, with the usual diversity of opinion of course.

*I use squeezebox stuff as well, transporter and Touches.

[Goes To 11]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Yes, I understand it has no effect at all on the non-HDCD rips. But both replies make me feel better. By the way, I have noticed quite a few rips return the result HDCD track detected--for example, just over the weekend, "Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere" by Neil Young and Crazy Horse. What I'm worried about is the possibility of clipping as reported in the first link I put in my post, caused by the +6 db default. Is that an anomaly applicable only to that CD, or just a few? Because one of the threads I read, you (Spoon) had posted you thought it was better to uncheck the +6.

So---realizing there is a difference of opinion as to whether HDCD makes a difference, and whether the difference is better or worse, if I decide to leave it on, would it be better to do so with the +6 unchecked? I am using ReplayGain, by the way, not apply, just setting the tag for playback.

[Spoon]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Uncheck it and use replaygain to normalize the volume (which I am sure the suqeezebox is compatible with).

[Goes To 11]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Thanks, Spoon. Will do it that way from now on. Is there an easy way to check for tracks already ripped with the +6 applied? When I finish ripping a CD, in the info window that opens I see "HDCD track detected," but when I later check the log file for that rip, I see no mention.

[Spoon]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

The files will be 24 bit, you can start batch converter, select your folder, then click list files and switch on the bit depth column and sort on that.

[Porcus]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Did you rip to lossless? Then the HDCDs would show up as 24 bit files.

[Goes To 11]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Spoon and Porcus--

Thanks, I'll try that.

So far what I've done is re-ripped the CDs that I remembered were HDCD, twice. Once with HDCD decoding applied (without +6 db), which I'll use for playing on my Logitech SBT, and a back-up copy without HDCD decoding.

I also used this list to find HDCDs (mentioned in some threads here) http://www.head-fi.org/t/65414/hdcd-list

to check, but it hasn't continued to be updated. For example, Neil Young's Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere and After The Gold Rush aren't mentioned.

[seventurns9]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

I do not think you made a mistake as your player cannot decode HDCD, so the software would have to do it at ripping otherwise you get a non-hdcd result.

I'm having some difficulty knowing if I should use the HCDC DSP or not. I have dbPoweramp and I followed your setup guide (and it was really helpful). Except what to do with the HDCD DSP; I have to rip 500 CDs to .flac and I want to get it right the first time. I don't understand if I uncheck the +6 db option then put in Volume Normalize if that will affect all of my rips, even the non-HDCD ones? Can you please suggest the exact DSP settings for me like you did in your setup guide?

My setup: I have a PC connected via USB to an Oppo BDP105 (it's USB DAC). I also have the PC video connected to a tv. My objective is to hear the best quality, including HDCD (if on there), and see album artwork on the tv. I have WinAmp and MediaMonkey for playback... (optionally I think I can connect a USB hard drive with the .flac files on it directly to the Oppo for playback, but I don't know if that is as good as the playing back through the pc... plus I don't believe that the Oppo can display embeded artwork).

Thanks for helping!

[Spoon]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

If you include the DSP effects 'HDCD' without +6db

Then include the DSP effect Replaygain, this will calculate the loudness for all tracks and write to an id tag (the audio is not touched).

Your Oppo is UPnP compatible, try Asset UPnP set to serve files 'as wav' with the replaygain option checked, then replaygain will be applied when played through your player. UPnP allows you to use a tablet with UPnP control point (or your PC to control playback, see Asset Control in the testing section of this web site for a control point).

[seventurns9]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

If you include the DSP effects 'HDCD' without +6db

Then include the DSP effect Replaygain, this will calculate the loudness for all tracks and write to an id tag (the audio is not touched).

Your Oppo is UPnP compatible, try Asset UPnP set to serve files 'as wav' with the replaygain option checked, then replaygain will be applied when played through your player. UPnP allows you to use a tablet with UPnP control point (or your PC to control playback, see Asset Control in the testing section of this web site for a control point).

So for ripping I just add the HDCD DSP without the +6db switch and I'm done (I already have the Replay Gain and Playlist writer DSPs added)?
And as far as playback you are saying to use Asset UPnP serving the .flac library as .wav with the replaygain option checked. But what about using WinAmp and/or MediaMonkey to play the files directly on the PC and output the audio through USB to the Oppo DAC? I'd like to use either of those apps cause I know them, but I'm just not clear on how/if the HDCD content will be in my rips without using the HDCD DSP? I thought I read in one of these posts that is the case... providing the player is HDCD compatible (this is where I am confused).

[garym]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

So for ripping I just add the HDCD DSP without the +6db switch and I'm done (I already have the Replay Gain and Playlist writer DSPs added)?
And as far as playback you are saying to use Asset UPnP serving the .flac library as .wav with the replaygain option checked. But what about using WinAmp and/or MediaMonkey to play the files directly on the PC and output the audio through USB to the Oppo DAC? I'd like to use either of those apps cause I know them, but I'm just not clear on how/if the HDCD content will be in my rips without using the HDCD DSP? I thought I read in one of these posts that is the case... providing the player is HDCD compatible (this is where I am confused).

Another option (which is in the long thread about options here). If your DAC and player handle HDCD themselves, then you don't need to use the HDCD DSP option when ripping. You could use foobar2000 player, which has plugin components that will recognize and play HDCD files directly.

If you choose to use the HDCD DSP when ripping, I'd probably rip twice (once with HDCD DSP and once without), because, as noted in the long thread, ripping with the HDCD DSP does not produce bit perfect copies of the CDs. Obviously, the need to do this depends on how obsessive you are about this. I have a lot of HDCD CDs (grateful dead and a few other artists). My main setup doesn't deal with HDCD and I don't rip to FLAC with the HDCD DSP. So I'm not taking advantage of the HDCD aspect.** I've played a few of these CDs at a friend's house side-by-side on a good system with one player that handles HDCD and another than doesn't (all else the same). I heard no difference at all. Of course this was not a double blind test.

**However, note that the FLAC rips do contain the full HDCD information as was on the CD and if I ever in the future played these on an HDCD capable player/DAC, the HDCD info would be utilized.

[seventurns9]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Ok, I've done enough research on this HDCD option and from what I see posted here by Porcus, there is no benefit: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...l=1*post119732
Spoon even said in that thread "The only DSP effect I use when ripping a CD is 'ReplayGain', the rest are not needed IMHO".
Ripping without HDCD doesn't mean that you are losing whatever HDCD content is on the rip:
Software Playback: "There are software solutions that process HDCDs on-the-fly upon playback, working just the same way as the HDCD DSP. If using the appropriate software, you will get through playback whatever you could by the HDCD DSP. "
Hardware: "a HDCD-able DAC will recognize a HDCD from the bitstream. "

So it seems all the experts just prefer to rip flac files with ONLY the Replay Gain DSP and nothing more. This should be in the setup guide.

Thanks to Porcus and Spoon for all of the info!

[seventurns9]

Re: HDCD for Dummies? How to check files where DSP for it was used?

Another option (which is in the long thread about options here). If your DAC and player handle HDCD themselves, then you don't need to use the HDCD DSP option when ripping. You could use foobar2000 player, which has plugin components that will recognize and play HDCD files directly.

If you choose to use the HDCD DSP when ripping, I'd probably rip twice (once with HDCD DSP and once without), because, as noted in the long thread, ripping with the HDCD DSP does not produce bit perfect copies of the CDs. Obviously, the need to do this depends on how obsessive you are about this. I have a lot of HDCD CDs (grateful dead and a few other artists). My main setup doesn't deal with HDCD and I don't rip to FLAC with the HDCD DSP. So I'm not taking advantage of the HDCD aspect.** I've played a few of these CDs at a friend's house side-by-side on a good system with one player that handles HDCD and another than doesn't (all else the same). I heard no difference at all. Of course this was not a double blind test.

**However, note that the FLAC rips do contain the full HDCD information as was on the CD and if I ever in the future played these on an HDCD capable player/DAC, the HDCD info would be utilized.

Thanks for the reply GARYM! I eventually found my way to this thread : http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...l=1*post119732
Where Porcus and Spoon actually confirm what you said above, that the HDCD is not needed, ONLY Replay Gain. Man I sure wish I knew all of this by just reading the setup guide and not spending days trying to find out what and why HDCD is used... I guess I learned something in the process, that I'll forget in about 5 minutes. lol But thanks to you, Porcus and Spoon for your help!
For me (semi-Newbie) it's ripping to flac with the Replay Gain and Playlist Writer DSPs and that is it!