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Thread: Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    16

    Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

    Hi,

    I'm trying the understand what "Ultra Secure" is and the difference between using it and not using it.

    First of all, I have 2 identical HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GH50N drives. Based on the "black triangle test" I performed and what I saw in the DAE Drive Features Database, I'm relatively confident that the drives support C2 - so I do have that option checked. Some of the dBpoweramp setup instructions make a distinction about whether a drive supports C2 "well" - others don't. I don't know if my drives handle C2 support "well" or not.

    After reading both the Secure & Advanced Options guide and the CD Ripper Setup Guide, I'm still confused about the Ultra Secure settings - what they do & what the best setting is for me to start out with.

    1) Looking at the diagrams in the Secure & Advanced Options guide, it appears that, regardless of whether you have C2 Support checked or not, dBpoweramp does 1 pass - and IF the result matches AccurateRip, that's all. Is this correct or does it always do a minimum of 2 passes as part of the regular "Secure" setting? I'm asking because the guide says that "Ultra Secure extends the normal 2 pass reading to a programmable number of passes." This would seem to indicate that you get 2 passes by default. However, it goes on to say that: "This can help detect errors or verify the single c2 pass is error free." Hence my confusion!

    2) I'm trying to understand (in simple terms) what Ultra Secure does in addition to the regular Secure setting. If employed, it looks like it forces the program to do a set minimum number of passes - but is that in all cases or just one with CDs where bad frames are detected. (Would it be safe to say that just about all rips encounter bad frames somewhere during the rip?) Based on the diagram, it looks like Ultra Secure comes in to play sooner when C2 Support is enabled.

    3) If one feels confident (as I do) that their drive supports C2, but is not sure how well, what would be a reasonable Ultra Secure setting?
    One guide says:
    • Drive Supports c2 error pointers well enable Ultra Secure with Minimum 1, Maximum 6 and End after 1.
    • Drive Supports c2, but badly enable Ultra Secure with Minimum 2, Maximum 6 and End after 2.


    Another does not make the distinction as to whether C2 support is good or bad:
    • If your drive supports C2 pointers, set as Minimum Ultra Passes: 1 Maximum Ultra Passes: 2 End After Clean Passes: 1
    • If your drive does not support C2 pointers, set as Minimum Ultra Passes: 2 Maximum Ultra Passes: 4 End After Clean Passes: 2


    Right now, I have it set to 2-4-2. I just need a little better understanding of how "Secure" works & what "Ultra Secure" brings to the table when it is selected.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    dBpoweramp Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    166

    Re: Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
    First of all, I have 2 identical HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GH50N drives.
    The first thing that stands out here is the HL-DT-ST drive. I have never owned such a drive that actually supported C2. When you performed the black triangle test, how long did it take before it said C2 errors were detected? If it was instantaneous, then I would wager that your drive does not support C2 and what you're getting is a false positive. You can check this by running the same test again on pristine disc and if it still says C2 errors are detected, then that's what's happening.

    Now.... if you have C2 enabled, it performs one pass before going on to Ultra Secure mode. If C2 is disabled, it peforms two passes. If the first pass matches with AccurateRip, that's it. There's no need for further passes, the ripper moves on to the next track.

    As for the number of Ultra Secure passes, I have my LG drive (which shows as HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GSA-E60L) set to 3-6-2.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    16

    Re: Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

    Hi eagle,

    What you describe is exactly what happened - the first time I ran the C2 test. No toolbar appeared - it just immediately said that C2 was supported. However, something wasn't sitting right with me, so I posted here about it and Spoon suggested that I positioned my "black triangle" too far in on the disc.

    Originally I started my triangle's point precisely 1 cm from the spot where the "matrix ring" ends. The problem is that there is another small, shiny band between the matrix ring & the start of the actual digital information. I didn't see that at first. Per Spoon's instructions, I created a second disc & had the point of my triangle start 1 cm from where you see the actual information start - i.e. 1 cm from where you see the disc change to the "duller" finish - where the music is found. (Am I making sense?) By doing this my second "black triangle" disc tracks ... the progress bar appears and goes about 25% of the way across & then gives me a positive for C2.

    This, coupled with the fact that the DAE database lists "all HL-DT-ST DVD RAM drived" as supporting C2, leads me to think that my drive does. Whether it does it well or not, I can't say. That's the reason for the thread. I want to make sure that I understand how Secure & Ultra Secure work - and what settings I should make. I understand only enough of this to be dangerous...lol...just want to make sure I configure it properly.

  4. #4
    dBpoweramp Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    743

    Re: Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

    Spoon's input on that: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthre...l=1*post121311

    If it immediately says that C2 is supported, then sometimes it means that it reports C2 errors everywhere, and they are all nonsense and useless. Some drives are like that. Worse than those who report nothing.

    Try a couple of pristine discs and see if it reports C2 support immediately on those too.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    16

    Re: Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

    Hi Porcus,

    I'm not sure whether your suggestion was for me or for eaglescout - but I am reasonably sure that my drives DO support C2 - because I re-ran Spoon's "black triangle" test. I got a new CD & drew the triangle differently per his instructions - making sure it started it 1 cm from where the digital information on the disc starts. It was this second test that ran properly, showed a progress bar & produced a message showing support of C2 after about 25% progress.

    I'm trying to get a better idea of what Ultra Secure does vs. just Secure - and what proper settings might be.

  6. #6
    dBpoweramp Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    743

    Re: Understanding Ultra Secure Settings

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
    I'm not sure whether your suggestion was for me or for eaglescout
    I was too careless to remember to quote. Sorry for that. Anyway, pick up the info whoever might use it
    (Reason for edit: I even now read wrong author.)

    As for your question: assuming you use the full-featured Reference, there are various layers of 'security'. If the drive does not support C2 (unchecked), then it goes like the following:


    - Burst pass. If AR match, then OK.
    Otherwise:
    - Another burst pass. If two burst passes disagree but can be combined to make an AR match, then the process stops here.

    Otherwise:
    - re-rips of the entire track. I don't know precisely how the one or two burst pass(es) come into play here (I've asked Spoon, he as usually answers very briefly, and this time too: they are used, but I don't know how).
    If an AR match is hit, then OK (Accurate). Otherwise, if sufficiently many identical rips of the entire track, then OK (Secure). Otherwise:
    - re-rip individual frames. Each frame ripped until a prespecified maximum number of times, but the number of matches required to abort and accept the frame, is always 10. (Don't really know why.) If 10 identicals are reached, then OK with the Secure (Warning) message. If the re-reads are maxed out, then pick best match. (There might be that there is an implicit minimum number of agreement required. At least 2 would have to agree for one result being better than the other.) Report Insecure. There is a setting to report Insecure as Error.
    But again, if an AR match is hit, then that trumps everything.
    Last edited by Porcus; 05-02-2012 at 04:44 AM.

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