WMA Encoding Problem

[Biker803]

Okay, well I installed dbPowerAMP... I really like it. I've actually used it previously no problem, but formated the other day. I came back to download and reinstall it, and there was no problem at that point. Then I went to get the WMA codec package on this site and installed that, then restarted the computer (didn't need the system codecs 'cause I have WMP 10 installed). Well, I used to be able to convert to WMA... just regular 9.1, Pro, Lossless, whatever it being using the source as a CD or a present file on my hard drive. Now, since I formated, I converted no problem to wave and mp3 (lame) from a CD I was ripping, however using the WMA encoder all of a sudden just doesn't seem to work. I'm getting no errors. What happens is when I use the WMA encoder, it appears to be encoding, and takes just as long to encode as if it were really encoding, but it's not. The file it outputs is between a 5kb and 50kb sized .wma file that is 1 second long, depending on which bitrates I choose to encode with. Something I'm thinking could be causing this issue is any disabled services I have (using Win XP Pro)... because what I did this time around after formating was disabling unecessary (at the time) services I thought I wouldn't need (going to services.msc ... and through that process) to make my computer run better. Do any of you know if there are any specific services that are required to be running for the WMA encoder to function correctly? If that's not the problem either, does anyone else know why I could be having this issue? I'm really not sure on this one.

Thanks for any help.

[ChristinaS]

No idea, but have you tried using Windows Media Player itself to encode an audio cd track to wma (make sure you don't copy-protect the file)?

[Biker803]

I tried about 10 minutes ago ripping using WMP 10 itself... using just regular Windows Media Audio at 192kbps... worked perfectly fine. So, I'd then assume it lies somewhere else within dbPowerAMP... or more specifically, the wma encoder that's used with it. I just don't see how that could be when this used to work fine for me... I have no idea what I could have done differently to make this not work.

Edit: Wanted to add that I don't copy-protect anything, these are all backup files I've been able to convert previously before my format.

Edit again: I said above that it is one second long, meaning if I open the 'converted' file up in WMP, it plays pretty much the first second, however when viewing the file properties, it says it's 0 seconds long... probably doesn't make a difference on solving my issue though. :(

[LtData]

I think the problem is with the Codec you have and WMP 10. Have you tried the wma 9.5 codec in beta? http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=6128

Try that codec and see if it fixed your problem

[xoas]

Taking a different tack, I think you do need to install the system codecs for the WMA 9.1 (sometimes referred to as 9.5) codec. This is different from the situation with the WMA v9 codec where you needed either WMP 9 or the system files-in this case I believe you need both.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Biker803]

I tried everything mentioned above, nothing seemed to be working for me... even that beta codec. I did uninstall all the codecs and uninstalled dbPowerAMP numerous times... and many restarts later, I gave up on it and formated, figuring it was something else I did that caused the problem. So now I'm at a fresh start once again. I still haven't installed dbPowerAMP but before I do I'm curious if anyone can provide the best setup for me so I don't run into this issue again... or at least hopefully don't, since no one has appeared to have solved this issue yet. I'm running WMP 10... not WMP9, so any suggestions for getting started would be helpful.

Thanks!

[xoas]

My recommendation:
Install dMC;
Install the WMA 9.1 System files (from the beta test forum here:
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=6128);
Install the WMA 9.1 Codec (also from the Beta test forum).
Restart the computer.
Works for me.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Biker803]

Wow, so now I just don't know what's wrong. That didn't work. I did exactly what you said, and started ripping from a CD that I know worked before... yet it was unsuccessful. It looked like it was going just fine, but nope... I get this 5kb sized wma file for every song.

Any other thoughts?

[xoas]

What wma settings (bits, frequency, bitrates, channels etc.) are you using?

[Biker803]

Odd... it worked, or well, I got it to work with a much lower frequency (and using the regular 9.1 codec... haven't tried it with the beta one). I was originally aiming for a 96 kHz frequency, and I started working my way down, nothing worked except 44 kHz. I never thought to try it, mainly because I just didn't want to go that low. I've tried 192 kbps and 384 kbps (all 24-bit) and those two work on 44 kHz... nothing seems to work so far in any of the higher frequencies. Maybe you know why that's happening? Maybe I'm being stupid and the music just simply can't be ripped at a higher frequency, but I've tried quite a few songs/CDs now... and don't understand why this wouldn't work with higher frequencies. I'll mess with it a bit more to see if I can find anything else, but let me know your thoughts on that.

Also it doesn't seem to matter whether I'm doing lossless, pro, etc... results are the same based on frequency chosen... even when I ripped to WAVE first at a higher frequency, everything went through, and the song played fine, then when I attempted to convert to wma from the wave file, I still got this 5kb sized file deal.

[ChristinaS]

Odd... it worked, or well, I got it to work with a much lower frequency (and using the regular 9.1 codec... haven't tried it with the beta one). I was originally aiming for a 96 kHz frequency, and I started working my way down, nothing worked except 44 kHz. I never thought to try it, mainly because I just didn't want to go that low. I've tried 192 kbps and 384 kbps (all 24-bit) and those two work on 44 kHz... nothing seems to work so far in any of the higher frequencies. Maybe you know why that's happening? Maybe I'm being stupid and the music just simply can't be ripped at a higher frequency, but I've tried quite a few songs/CDs now... and don't understand why this wouldn't work with higher frequencies. I'll mess with it a bit more to see if I can find anything else, but let me know your thoughts on that.

Also it doesn't seem to matter whether I'm doing lossless, pro, etc... results are the same based on frequency chosen... even when I ripped to WAVE first at a higher frequency, everything went through, and the song played fine, then when I attempted to convert to wma from the wave file, I still got this 5kb sized file deal.

96KHz frequency is for DVD and that also goes with 24 bits. Your CD will be only 44.1KHz, 16-bit. You're trying to increase the frequency and the bits while compressing. That's usually trouble.

Aside from the fact there's no benefit from an increased frequency and bits in this case, you may have to do it one step at a time, changing only one parameter at a time until you wav is the same bits and frequency as teh wma you are aiming for. Were you trying to use WMA Lossless or WMA Professional?

[Biker803]

Been trying to use Professional. I guess I can understand why it would be good to stay with 44 then, but taking it in as a WAVE, I was able to make all adjustments in one conversion, and it was successful, but just encoding in WMA gives me these issues.

[ChristinaS]

DO you have Professional Frequency Conversion enabled in dMC Configuration?

[Biker803]

Yep, I do have that enabled.

[ChristinaS]

Did I forget to say that your wma at 96KHz, 24-bit, VBR 100 (professional) will be nearly double the size of your original wav at 16-bit, 44.1KHz 2-ch stereo?

I ripped a track to 160bit 44.1KHz 2-ch stereo (regular cd stuff), the conevrted this wav to 24-bit 96KHz 2-ch stereo wav and this new wav to wma 9 Lossless VBR 100 96KHz 24-bit 2-ch stereo VBR - it worked, end result almost double the original wav file size.

I don't have the newest WMA codecs since I don't run WMP 10 (No Windows XP).

[Biker803]

Okay, I'll have to mess with it a bit more to get the hang of my "limits" for conversions like these... what will work and what won't. Don't have much time tonight, it's 12:40am now, and I'm about ready to leave for bed, but what would you suggest as the optimum settings for me ripping a CD to WMA Pro (that works)? :smile2: Or even lossless, but I'm not sure if pro or lossless is higher quality.

[xoas]

Using dMC and the WMA 9.1 codec, I was able to convert to WMA Professional, Quality 75, 96 kHz, 2 channel, 24 bit vbr (resulting bitrate was 176). I was also able to convert to WMA Professional, Quality setting 10, 48 kHz, 2 channel, 24 bit vbr (resulting bitrate of 88). The first conversion was slow (0.8x Real Time encoding) but both worked. But unless you have a 24 bit soundcard or an application that needs or plays 24 bit files, 16 bit should be better for you. Unless you have a need for a frequency as high as 96 kHz, I would recommend staying with a lower frequency (specifically 44.1).

I was only ripping single files single. If you want to try 96 kHz at 75 Quality, you might do better to convert to 96 kHz wav first.

BTW-Lossless will be higher quality. You will never get higher quality than lossless.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[adaywayne]

If I have understood this thread so far, Biker is trying to rip to WMA directly from a CD. If that is the case, there is no point in trying to rip at anything other than 16 bit, 44100Hz, since that is how the information is on the CD. In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD

[ChristinaS]

If I have understood this thread so far, Biker is trying to rip to WMA directly from a CD. If that is the case, there is no point in trying to rip at anything other than 16 bit, 44100Hz, since that is how the information is on the CD. In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD
That is pretty much the idea.

Converting a wav which corresponds exactly to the original audio cd track to a lossless format makes sense as long as that lossless format results in a file no bigger than the wav file. If there's significant space saved it is useful in order to store audio files in a compact manner. Changing specs to increase bits and frequency is useless unless there's a specific needd for that as in some application that may requires them. The audio quality will not be improved in any case.

[xoas]

If I have understood this thread so far, Biker is trying to rip to WMA directly from a CD. If that is the case, there is no point in trying to rip at anything other than 16 bit, 44100Hz, since that is how the information is on the CD.
Exactly right, unless Biker has a specialized need for a different bit setting or a different frequency.

In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD
I am not sure of your point here.

A wav or lossless file ripped from cd will not be better than the cd but that doesn't mean that it is foolish to rip tracks from cd to lossless on your hard drive.

If you mean it is pointless converting to wav first, that would be correct except for situations where you need to do an intermediate conversion first. So if Biker can only get the wma file settings he feels that he needs with a conversion first to wav, then that is what he should do.

You are probably right in questioning Biker's need for the conversion settings he is attempting (as I did question in a milder way in Post #17) but ultimately the user is a better judge of his/her needs than others.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[adaywayne]

That is pretty much the idea.

Converting a wav which corresponds exactly to the original audio cd track to a lossless format makes sense as long as that lossless format results in a file no bigger than the wav file. If there's significant space saved it is useful in order to store audio files in a compact manner. Changing specs to increase bits and frequency is useless unless there's a specific needd for that as in some application that may requires them. The audio quality will not be improved in any case.

Yes, thanks for clarifying what I posted. You are correct that converting to lossless can give a file 50% the size of the original with no loss in audio quality. I should have made that clearer.
Arnie

[adaywayne]

[QUOTE=xoas]Exactly right, unless Biker has a specialized need for a different bit setting or a different frequency.

Quote:
In addition, downloading to a wave file and then converting to a lossless format will not improve the audio quality, so is an excercise in futility. One cannot get any better than what is on the original CD

I am not sure of your point here.

A wav or lossless file ripped from cd will not be better than the cd but that doesn't mean that it is foolish to rip tracks from cd to lossless on your hard drive.

Exactly, see my response to Christina.....I was thinking only audio quality and not file size. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Biker was foolish!!

I'm going to try ripping from CD to WMA at various settings to see what I get. Will post back.
Arnie

[adaywayne]

[QUOTE=xoas]
I'm going to try ripping from CD to WMA at various settings to see what I get. Will post back.
Arnie[/COLOR]

Well, here is what I found using the latest WMA Codec V 9.1 from the DMC Codec Central. Whether ripping/converting to WMA from a CD (using dB Audio CD ripper) or converting a wave file from my hard drive to WMA using DMC.

1. The highest frequency option was 48KHz. I believe this frequency is used in DVD audio and also in streaming video clips.

2. I ripped a track from CD to WMA at 44,100Hz, 128KBps VBR and all went well. I had no problems playing the file with WMP.

3. I did the same thing but at 48KHz. The rip/conversion appeared to go just fine. However, the resulting file showed a size of about 5.8MB but a length of 00.00 minutes. Neither WMP nor any other player I tried would play the file....which didn't surprise me.

Hope this helps.
Arnie

[Biker803]

Okay, so what I've got from what you guys have been saying is that it's pretty much pointless to attempt 96 kHz. I am ripping normal audio CDs for the most part, but since I was never really educated that much on all of these types of frequencies, bitrates, etc, it became clearer as you guys were posting more of what my limits were. I had been just trying to "bump everything up as high as I could" to what I thought would produce the best sound.

I do have a 24-bit sound card, but I'm still not sure from what you guys were saying if it's actually worth it to rip 24-bit audio, though it does seem to work on my part when I'm ripping at the 44 kHz frequency, so I'm not complaining on that part. What I'm ultimately trying to accomplish is get the best quality audio possible, and on the side it'd be nice to have a pretty decent file size, but I have a 250gig HD so it's not too important, and I'd like to accomplish this with the WMA encoder unless someone had any suggestions for something else? Thanks!

[adaywayne]

Okay, so what I've got from what you guys have been saying is that it's pretty much pointless to attempt 96 kHz. I am ripping normal audio CDs for the most part, but since I was never really educated that much on all of these types of frequencies, bitrates, etc, it became clearer as you guys were posting more of what my limits were. I had been just trying to "bump everything up as high as I could" to what I thought would produce the best sound.

I do have a 24-bit sound card, but I'm still not sure from what you guys were saying if it's actually worth it to rip 24-bit audio, though it does seem to work on my part when I'm ripping at the 44 kHz frequency, so I'm not complaining on that part. What I'm ultimately trying to accomplish is get the best quality audio possible, and on the side it'd be nice to have a pretty decent file size, but I have a 250gig HD so it's not too important, and I'd like to accomplish this with the WMA encoder unless someone had any suggestions for something else? Thanks!

You got it pretty much right, Biker. Just one comment, your 24-bit soundcard will produce higher quality analog audio output than a 16-bit one, but only from sources which are either analog themselves (for example, a line-in from an LP turntable or a cassette player) or from digital sources which have been encoded at 24-bit or higher rate (some DVDs/games audio etc). But, from current audio CDs you will see no difference, because the digital information on the CD was produced by taking 16-bit samples (chunks or bites, if you like), 44,100 every second from a continuous stream of information. So there is no way one can do anything to the digital information from the CD to get more musical information from it than it contains.

To put it simply, the CD format is, itself, a "lossy" format by definition. Now, of course, one can add DSP (Digital Signal Processing) effects such as reverberation, artificial surround sound, echo, "sounds likes it's coming from the bottom of a mine shaft" effects, and so on, but I don't consider these as audio quality improvements! But, then again, I'm old-fashioned (because I'm old!)
Hope the above makes sense.
Arnie

[Biker803]

Alright it's all much clearer now. Thanks everyone for helping me out with this, I really appreciate the time spent to resolve the "issue" which turned up being a fault on my part, so as an outcome I know a bunch more about all of this.

Thanks again!

[adaywayne]

Alright it's all much clearer now. Thanks everyone for helping me out with this, I really appreciate the time spent to resolve the "issue" which turned up being a fault on my part, so as an outcome I know a bunch more about all of this.

Thanks again!

That's what this forum is for! Thanks for providing your feedback.
Arnie