Convert M4P to MP3

[Unregistered]

See here for conversion FAQ:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=6258&highlight=mp4+mp3

------------

Does anyone know how to convert M4P to MP3? There has to be a way, I don't give a damn if it's legal or not, I paid for the music file, it's mine, I should be able to do whatever I want with it right? I have been told that "Toast" will do the trick, but does "Toast" work on Windows 2K? All I found was for Mac.

[Spoon]

Here:
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=4004

[Unregistered]

Okay Spoon, how do I create a file called convert.vbs?

[Unregistered]

What is the "propper playback key" and how do I get it?
and I created the "convert.vbs" but in which directory do I put it and the .m4p files?

thanks for your time... signed P-Head.

[Spoon]

Put everything in C:\

[Ozzy]

Well, I am tryin to follow everything and I'm getting closer. I get a runtime error trying to execute the convert.vbs saying 'left' is not a valid argument. (Line 9). Also, what is the "Proper playback key"? This might be what I'm missing. Thank you for your help so far.

[Spoon]

Look at FAQ - the code snippet has been updated.

[Unregistered]

ok it converted it to mp4. it did not play on my pocket pc. does windows media player not support mp4?

[Spoon]

No, try itunes or dBpowerAMP Audio Player.

[Unregistered]

I did it the long way. I agree, I paid for it, I should be able to edit it, play it on my PalmPilot, etc. Damn them and their eternal paranoia.

This is what I did.
- use iTunes to create a playlist of the m4p files
- burn a CD of those files
- move or delete the original m4p files
- import the CD

You should be able to use mp3 or WAV or whatever you want. Good luck.

[Unregistered]

I can tell you a slightly better way....It's about as complex, but at least it doesn't use up a CD....

You will need a sound recording program like Sonic Foundry Sound Forge (that's what I used). Get it off Kazaa if you don't own it.

Start up iTunes and your sound recording program. Also, open the Windows Mixer by double-clicking the speaker icon in the system tray.

In the Mixer, click "Options" - "Properties"

Select the "Recording" radio button, then OK.

You should see a number of sliders with checkboxes at the bottom labeled "Select".

You want to select the slider that corresponds to your sound OUTPUT. On my PC, it is labeled "Stereo Mix". This basically tells your computer to get its recording stream from the stereo mix.

Close the Mixer.

Now, go to your sound recording program and start recording. Then, switch to iTunes and start playing whatever you want to record. When the song stops, stop your sound recorder. Now you can save it as whatever you want....without wasting a CD!!!!

Be sure to monitor your recording. You may need to adjust the recording level to get a good quality recording.....I usually do a sample run through by skipping the song around in iTunes and checking the recording level in Sound Forge before I actually record the whole song. Essentially, you want the meters as high as possible without "Clipping" (Sound Forge has a clip indicator light that makes this very simple).

If you find this helpful or run into problems, drop a line to tnwesel@mindspring.com and let me know!

[emboy25]

What exactly is the "proper play back key" needed to convert with m4p2mp4.exe? And where can I get it?

[Unregistered]

In iTunes - you must have the rights to play it.

[emboy25]

In iTunes - you must have the rights to play it.

how do you do that? I have iTunes and it still says "you must have the propper playback key"?

[senior05]

I used that m4p2mp4 program and the output file does not contain any audio. What did I do wrong? Why can't we use music that we payed for?

[ChristinaS]

I can tell you a slightly better way....It's about as complex, but at least it doesn't use up a CD....

You will need a sound recording program like Sonic Foundry Sound Forge (that's what I used). Get it off Kazaa if you don't own it.

Start up iTunes and your sound recording program. Also, open the Windows Mixer by double-clicking the speaker icon in the system tray.

In the Mixer, click "Options" - "Properties"

Select the "Recording" radio button, then OK.

You should see a number of sliders with checkboxes at the bottom labeled "Select".

You want to select the slider that corresponds to your sound OUTPUT. On my PC, it is labeled "Stereo Mix". This basically tells your computer to get its recording stream from the stereo mix.

Close the Mixer.

Now, go to your sound recording program and start recording. Then, switch to iTunes and start playing whatever you want to record. When the song stops, stop your sound recorder. Now you can save it as whatever you want....without wasting a CD!!!!

Be sure to monitor your recording. You may need to adjust the recording level to get a good quality recording.....I usually do a sample run through by skipping the song around in iTunes and checking the recording level in Sound Forge before I actually record the whole song. Essentially, you want the meters as high as possible without "Clipping" (Sound Forge has a clip indicator light that makes this very simple).

If you find this helpful or run into problems, drop a line to tnwesel@mindspring.com and let me know!

Why can't you just use dMC Auxiliary Input for this? To my way of thinking it should work regardless of the source of the audio file and the particular player used to render it.

Set that up to save as wav or mp3 or whatever and hit Record and start playing from iTunes at the same time. Stop it when it's over.

[Unregistered]

Hi everyone. Here's a way to strip the digital rights management out of songs purchased from iTunes using Hymn (formerly Playfair).

http://www.engadget.com/entry/2127813034623335/

The windows version is currently a command line interface, so you have to use the command prompt (Start > Run...). But it's not at all hard. It's a one-line command. You basically just type "hymn songtitle.m4p" where songtitle is the filename of the song you want to convert, and hit enter and voila! You can list multiple songs and do a bunch at once. It takes about 1 second. The only trick I found is that your filename can't have spaces in it or it doesn't work. I think that's just a feature of working with stuff in a command line setting. I don't know. I know nothing about DOS and I was able to get it to work on my second try. I just copied my m4p file, renamed it, and then converted it. Then I just renamed the new converted version back to the original title. Hooray! DRM gone, just like that.

You end up with an m4a file, not m4p, which I guess is still AAC format, with no loss of sound quality. All the id3 tags and cover art and stuff are preserved and you can still play it in your iTunes. And you can now play it on any device that plays AAC. You can actually make the program assign your converted files different file extensions. I tried to make mine into an mp3, and it did create an mp3, but it wouldn't play. When I tried, it said something like "this file has an extension that does not match it's file type, and it may not play." So I just did it the normal (m4a) way after that. But I'm happy just to have a non-protected AAC file. That was really the only thing keeping me from buying from iTunes (well, that and the fact that you can only get 128k quality). That stupid DRM shit is too restrictive. You can end up owning a file you can't even play. Just think of it, an illegal program is what has caused me to stop downloading illegally! Oh, the sad irony.

As for converting your m4a to another format, it looks like that's what the rest of this thread is about. I haven't read it thoroughly.

[Unregistered]

Hey disregard what I said above about m4a being the same as AAC. As it happens, I don't know what I'm talking about. I've since read more on this site about the different formats and it sounds like they're different. My point was just that m4a is still something that plays in iTunes like any m4p.

[Unregistered]

Thanks!!! I used this and it worked the first time. After converting the songs from m4p format to mp4 using hymn I then used dbpoweramp's free converter (downloadable at http://www.dbpoweramp.com) to convert to mp3. My songs now play in winamp!!!

[Unregistered]

This works brilliantly. Genius. Thank you for your efforts and clarity.


I can tell you a slightly better way....It's about as complex, but at least it doesn't use up a CD....

You will need a sound recording program like Sonic Foundry Sound Forge (that's what I used). Get it off Kazaa if you don't own it.

Start up iTunes and your sound recording program. Also, open the Windows Mixer by double-clicking the speaker icon in the system tray.

In the Mixer, click "Options" - "Properties"

Select the "Recording" radio button, then OK.

You should see a number of sliders with checkboxes at the bottom labeled "Select".

You want to select the slider that corresponds to your sound OUTPUT. On my PC, it is labeled "Stereo Mix". This basically tells your computer to get its recording stream from the stereo mix.

Close the Mixer.

Now, go to your sound recording program and start recording. Then, switch to iTunes and start playing whatever you want to record. When the song stops, stop your sound recorder. Now you can save it as whatever you want....without wasting a CD!!!!

Be sure to monitor your recording. You may need to adjust the recording level to get a good quality recording.....I usually do a sample run through by skipping the song around in iTunes and checking the recording level in Sound Forge before I actually record the whole song. Essentially, you want the meters as high as possible without "Clipping" (Sound Forge has a clip indicator light that makes this very simple).

If you find this helpful or run into problems, drop a line to tnwesel@mindspring.com and let me know!

[Unregistered]

http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=137828

You can play in staight in winamp with this apparently though i haven't used it


If you'd rather convert to an mp3:

http://hymn-project.org/download.php?dl=dlwin

download this program to allow you to convert the m4p to an m4a (unprotected)

to make this as spelled out ass possible, unzip it to the C:\hymn directory

then copy the mp4 files you want to convert to C:\hymn


open a MS dos command prompt window start>>accessories>>command prompt

type:

C:/>
C:/> cd hymn
C:/> hymn thenameofthefileiwantoconvert.mp4

the m4awill appear in the hymn directory

YOu should be able to paly it in winamp if you have an m4a plugin

http://www.rarewares.org/files/aac/in_mp4.zip (an mp4 play in winamp plugin)

Then install this program if you need an mp3 encoder for wimamp

http://mukoli.free.fr/out_lame/out_lame.binf_v161.exe

[polymorph]

to get the batch processing using hymn.exe - simple: select all the song you need to convert and drap and drop on hymn.exe - just works sweet!!!

- enjoy

[Unregistered]

Ha ha ha, yay! Sweet, cheers!!! Spent ages trying to use total record, but the drivers caused weird echo effect, hymn works so much easier. I can finally put my Itune songs on my mp3 player!

[Unregistered]

I found this thread extremely usefull. To make things really simple. Icopy the hymn.exe file to the directory wher the music is then just drag and drop the files onto hymn.exe. The conversion the m4a is done in the background.After that is complete use dbPowerAmp to convert to m4a to mp3.


Very easy and quick. Easier than burning a CD and quicker. 15 Tracks took 9 minutes.

[Unregistered]

Brilliant. Worked on the first try. I have been recording iTunes output through CoolEdit. This is SO much easier. I just put hymn in the directory with *copies* (overly cautious) of the purchased tunes and drag them onto it to lose the restrictions. Now I wonder if there is an AAC player for Linux. ...off to check... Cheers!

[Unregistered]

To convert M4P to mp3 follow the link to this website. It works great.
http://www.gates-of-hell.com/Tutorials/m4p%20to%20mp3.asp

[Unregistered]

All of this is way too complicated. Just write the m4p to a CD and then import all the tracks to your music library with Realplayer - which will automatically save them as mp3 although it'll get the names of the tracks completely wrong!

[Unregistered]

I tried to do it this way. Itunes recoginized the CD, but I could not import as MP3 file. I did delelet the orginal library and move the original M4p files. What did I do wrong?

I did it the long way. I agree, I paid for it, I should be able to edit it, play it on my PalmPilot, etc. Damn them and their eternal paranoia.

This is what I did.
- use iTunes to create a playlist of the m4p files
- burn a CD of those files
- move or delete the original m4p files
- import the CD

You should be able to use mp3 or WAV or whatever you want. Good luck.

[Unregistered]

I just tried it with Real Player. Still a no go. What am I doing wrong



I tried to do it this way. Itunes recoginized the CD, but I could not import as MP3 file. I did delelet the orginal library and move the original M4p files. What did I do wrong?

[proFeign]

Here:
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=4004

Hey, I don't want to write the vbs script, and I guess my familiarity with DOS isn't as hot as it once was. Can you tell me the correct syntax for HYMN?

Here's what I did and it doesn't work. I put the test m4p (with no spaces in the filename) in the c:\hymn folder... here's what my command prompt looks like:

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\hymn>hymn -h
USAGE:
hymn [-v] [-l n] [-x ext] <file1> [ [file2] ... [fileN] ] [destdir]
-l n set logging level to 'n' (0-5, default=1)
0 supress log messages
1 log warnings
2 log informational messages
3 log debug information
4 log program flow
5 log everything
-x ext use 'ext' as the file extension for output files
-v display hymn version information
hymn [-h]
-h this help message

C:\hymn>dir
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is CC8D-2B6A

Directory of C:\hymn

07/30/2004 04:43 PM <DIR> .
07/30/2004 04:43 PM <DIR> ..
07/29/2004 05:19 PM 2,847,875 a2g.m4p
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 627 AUTHORS
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 18,052 COPYING
07/29/2004 05:46 PM <DIR> doc
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 925,751 hymn.exe
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 1,164 INSTALL
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 858 NEWS
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 1,614 README
07/28/2004 03:28 PM 299 THANKS
8 File(s) 3,796,240 bytes
3 Dir(s) 269,327,675,392 bytes free

C:\hymn>hymn -x .unk c:\hymn\a2g.m4p c:\hymn\
Couldn't open file: (null)

C:\hymn>

[Unregistered]

I hated jumping through all these hoops but the info listed on the GoH site (http://www.gates-of-hell.com/Tutorials/m4p%20to%20mp3.asp) worked great. For some reason the zip file the site gave me didn't have the folders it needed to have but that was fixed real quick, I just created them myself. I am always suspisious of using software like this but it worked, I guess I just have to trust that it is safe.

-Scott

[ChristinaS]

Amen to that! :smile2:

[Unregistered]

Sorry it's not an answer about your question "Senior 05" but I have the same problem.
I have m4p2mp4.exe
I have done "Convert.vbs"
It produced mp4 files ..... Ok
I have (all) the rights about my M4p files because I have paid for them.
But there is no sound when I (Try to) heard them through I-Tunes
And When I want to do Mp3 files with dbpowerAMP, the file produced has 0 Ko (Zero).
Why ?
Have you an answer to that ?
Thanks.

[Unregistered]

What is the god you are praying for that. I have few words to talk to him ...

[Unregistered]

What is the god you are praying for that. I have few words to talk to him ...

[ChristinaS]

Well, well, well! It appears I have a French fan in the group posting in or reading this thread. Somebody using dyn-83-155-7-94.ppp.tiscali.fr as an ISP who thinks I should take whatever advice I give out here and put it elsewhere, or words to that effect, en français!

So to this French fan of mine I can only say this:

Tu devrais avoir le courage de t'identifier tout au moins. Les mots grossiers que tu m'a envoyés ne font que trahir ton immaturité.

Si j'ai fait une erreur, prouve-la et donne-nous une vraie sollution intelligente et renseignée. Si tu n'as rien d'utile à ajouter, tais-toi.

[Unregistered]

Just wanted to share a little batch file that I wrote to convert the m4p files to mp4 files en masse usying hymn.

What the batch file is doing is starting at the top level of a directory tree and recursively going up to 2 levels into any subdirectories that it finds and performing the hymn.exe conversion on any file that matches *.m4p

Here it is:
**************************
@echo off && for /f "DELIMS=" %%z in ('dir /ad /b') do for /f "DELIMS=" %%j in ('dir /ad /b "%%z"') do for /f "DELIMS=" %%i in ('dir /b "%%z\%%j\*.m4p"') do hymn "%%z\%%j\%%i"
**************************
- Take the code between the starred lines above and paste it into a text file and save the file as "convert.bat".
- place convert.bat and hymn.exe in the root of some folder on your hard drive, doesn't matter where.
- copy your entire iTunes directory tree containing your m4p files into the directory where your hymn.exe and convert.bat files reside.
- double-click on convert.bat
- Voila! You can now go into each folder and find that for every m4p file there is a corresponding m4a file.
- Next step is to go into each folder and use dbPowerAmp to convert the m4a files into mp3 files -- there's been plenty of talk about how to do that already. I only wish that dbPowerAmp had a command line feature that would allow me to script it, rather than having to use my mouse for everything!

What I like about this method is that I leave my categorization of songs into folders by artist and album intact.

[Unregistered]

The answer you all are looking for:
http://www.hymn-project.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=128

I don't wunna write the same message twice, so just have a looksy

--man on street

[Unregistered]

Try running

hymn *.m4p

in the directory with all your itunes music ... that might make it a lot easier to convert your music

(That will convert any file with a *.m4p extenstion in the directory you are in.)

[Unregistered]

Try running

hymn *.m4p

in the directory with all your itunes music ... that might make it a lot easier to convert your music

(That will convert any file with a *.m4p extenstion in the directory you are in.)

Well, a simple batch script that would convert and move the m4p file would be something like this:

mkdir Original
hymn *.m4p
move *.m4p Original


That works in Windows XP, and will probably work in 2000, but I am not sure about the non-nt kernel operating systems (3.1, 95, 98, ME)

[Unregistered]

My friend sent me his mp3s he bought from itunes, and itll only play on his computer, so I tried to use Hymn. It's not workin too well... I don't know what I'm doing wrong. When I use Hymn to convert it, it converts and says cannot find DMA.

[SecreTEmpirE1]

I know of 2 ways. #1 is by going to

http://www.gates-of-hell.com/Tutorials/m4p%20to%20mp3.asp

and download the program offered. #2 Or, you can do it my way. After weeks of trying to figure out how, I have finally done it. All you need is a CD and the songs you want. First get all the protected AAC files you want into a playlist. Then burn a CD. When the CD is done, right click on it in My Computer. Choose open. If you look at the file extension type for the files, they say *.cda. This means that they aren't .aac's anymore, and better yet, aren't protected anymore. Then EXTRACT (not drag and drop) the file(s) you want onto your desktop and rename them to *.wav. Then use any .wav to .mp3 converter to convert them. I suggest using the program from gates of hell.com is you have many files. But for only a few files, I suggest using my method. :-)

-SecreTEmpirE1

[Unregistered]

I did it the long way. I agree, I paid for it, I should be able to edit it, play it on my PalmPilot, etc. Damn them and their eternal paranoia.

This is what I did.
- use iTunes to create a playlist of the m4p files
- burn a CD of those files
- move or delete the original m4p files
- import the CD

You should be able to use mp3 or WAV or whatever you want. Good luck.

Hate to bring up a dead topic, but i found this on google, and just wanted to tell you that is illegal. And, furthermore, if you do not have the original file, you might as well not have paid for it in the first place.

[Spoon]

>and just wanted to tell you that is illegal.

The part you quoted was not illegal, Apple allow CD burning. If you have paid for the m4p file then you can burn it and delete the original, apple does not force you to keep the original files.

[Unregistered]

A stupid thing I found. If your scared about the RIAA finding out you have songs, heres what you do. Download and install iTunes. Make a copy of your favorite song and rename the copy to .m4p. Put it into iTunes and it will show up as a protected file.

[Unregistered]

I wrote a program in .NET to convert M4P to MP3. Does anyone know if there are legal issues in making it available to the general public?

Thanks,
Alex

[Unregistered]

Also, this program uses a combination of Lame, Faad, and Hymn to do the conversion. Are there issues in distributing these programs with my application?

Thanks,
Alex

[SiWilli]

I followed the link to HYMN earlier in this thread, and found iOpener (for windows) I dowloaded it, and installed it. You hit one button, and it goes through you whole iTunes library and converts all m4p to m4a in seconds. It even updates your playlists so they point to the new file.

No hassle, no effort.

[SiWilli]

Doh, I meant to leave you guys the link:
http://hymn-project.org/download.php

[Unregistered]

All you people talking about real player, command line things, and such, please just do what people are doing about 6 posts up! It works and it's the fastest thing to do and easiest. I'll spell it out for you..again.

Download and extract the HYMN program and it's files to a folder. Then do a search on your computer for m4p files (native itunes files with their DRM protection). *COPY* all of them, then go to the HYMN folder and paste them there (i did a batch of 60 songs named with spaces, hyphens and parenthesis..doesn't matter what the file name is). Then take those freshly pasted m4p files, and drag them to the HYMN.EXE file...you'll see a command prompt (dos style window) and you'll only see a cursor blinking..that means HYMN is converting your M4p files to M4As (unprotected, DRM free songs). When the command prompt window (dos style window) dissappears, hit F5 to refresh the view of that folder (HYMN folder), and you'll see an M4A copy of each M4P song!

If you wish to then convert those to MP3, get your free copy of dbPowerAmp and then convert those M4As to MP3!

it's a freakin joke how easy it is. Links above have the dbpoweramp and hymn download location..i downloaded the latest version of hymn on their page (near the bottom).

[Semysig]

All of this is way too complicated. Just write the m4p to a CD and then import all the tracks to your music library with Realplayer - which will automatically save them as mp3 although it'll get the names of the tracks completely wrong!

The hymm thing is EASIER than that, if I'm understanding it right.
Plus, I think you'd likely have to use Realplayer on the same computer as iTunes since it no doubt checks the damn DRM.
That's all peachy if you only use one, but I completey agree with the other guy and the makers of Hymm that DRM is just WRONG.
I hope they keep generating more and more animosity amoung thier potential customers and they ALL start pirating with Kazaa and the like!
Only way you can vote is with your $, so stop buying protected music files!
Boycott all RIAA member recording co's - unfortunately that's almost all of them, so again - Kazaa! (unless anybody knows a service that sells songs unprotected).
Anyway, JM2C.

[Unregistered]

>and just wanted to tell you that is illegal.

The part you quoted was not illegal, Apple allow CD burning. If you have paid for the m4p file then you can burn it and delete the original, apple does not force you to keep the original files.

Once you realize that any resemblance between the law and right&wrong/justice is purely conincidental, you come to the conclusion that all that matters is not getting caught :)

IOW, do what's right, use what you paid for however you damn please, and try not to get caught by the scum with power who tell you otherwise!

[Unregistered]

I've been hearing bantered around that converting one format to another creates loss, and more so to do one of the work arounds for this thread (burn to CD then rip back to MP3).
Is there any truth to this? I mean, it's digital to digital, there should be no generation loss like back with anolog, copying tapes, etc. right?

Especially if you were to go lossy (MP3 or 4), to uncompressed or lossless format, then to other lossy.
The 1st lossy should equal the 2nd shouldn't it, assuming no inherent loss due to converting to a lossier format/bitrate, etc.

Anybody know more about this?

[usefulhint]

http://www.Tunebite.com offers a tool to convert m4p to mp3 with rerecording.

[xoas]

Especially if you were to go lossy (MP3 or 4), to uncompressed or lossless format, then to other lossy.
The 1st lossy should equal the 2nd shouldn't it, assuming no inherent loss due to converting to a lossier format/bitrate, etc.
No, the first lossy will not equal the second (in fact). Your second lossy will only be a somewhat less than perfect copy of the first. Burning to cd might introduce other new imperfections depending on the quality of the burn and the various factors that enter into that (burner, software, media, system). Otherwise, converting from lossy (say mp4) to lossless (say wav or FLAC) to lossy (mp3) should be indistinguishable from converting from the first lossy to the second.
But practically, you might not find the difference to be perceptable or worth fretting about. That you need to decide for yourself.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Unregistered]

You guys are retards. Just use Hymm then open up itunes with the mp4 you converted then right click and click convert to mp3 then delete the mp4

[semysig]

You guys are retards. Just use Hymm then open up itunes with the mp4 you converted then right click and click convert to mp3 then delete the mp4

I think he's saying that will produce loss, just like I was talking about.
But, going lossy to lossless, to 2nd lossy will yield a perfect copy of the original but in the new format. Right?
I don't really get why though.
BTW, how is FLAC, etc. on size compared to WAV at the same audible sound quality.
Also, I hear most people can't discern the diff. between 192 and anything higher for MP3's (IOW, making that the max bitrate you'd want to archive at). That true, or can you hear the diff. on a good syst.?

Eventually, I'm going to want to rip my entire CD collection to some big HDD's and/or DVD's, and I want to do it in a format & rate that will have no perceivable loss - even on a very high end system (like my old Polk Audio $1400/pair tower speakers :)
Getting a little OT here though..

[semysig]

Weeeell, tried Hymn. Didn't work. Said it needed iTunes, I assume on the computer the song was bought on, to convert to MP3.
My friend who's song I was trying to listen to can't run Hymn on his computer (unless there's a Mac version) and I can't get iTunes on this (long story involving ancient artifacts, i.e. my computer).

Is there anything that won't require that, short of burning to CD, then ripping back to MP3?

[Unregistered]

Does anyone know how to convert M4P to MP3? There has to be a way, I don't give a damn if it's legal or not, I paid for the music file, it's mine, I should be able to do whatever I want with it right? I have been told that "Toast" will do the trick, but does "Toast" work on Windows 2K? All I found was for Mac.

Toast will work with Win2K. You might have to use the XP version which is back-ward compatible with Win2K. Good luck!

[xoas]

going lossy to lossless, to 2nd lossy will yield a perfect copy of the original but in the new format. Right?
Wrong. It will create a lossy copy of the original lossy (just like going from lossy to lossy would).


BTW, how is FLAC, etc. on size compared to WAV at the same audible sound quality.
A lossless codec will produce a file generally .4 to .6 times the size of the original wav file assuming they are the same frequency and number of channels, etc.

Also, I hear most people can't discern the diff. between 192 and anything higher for MP3's (IOW, making that the max bitrate you'd want to archive at). That true, or can you hear the diff. on a good syst.?
I generally discern differences up to about 240 kbs in mp3, Ogg or mpc. But this really is a matter between your ears, your equipment, your music and your listening environment (listening in my car 192 is fine and I am not sure I could distinguish between 192 and 240 kbs or between 128 and 192 kbs in my car).

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Unregistered]

I just bought my 1st song from itunes and i won't be doing it again!

WHY:

1- its only 128k/bits/sec

2-it's protected (i agree with earlier posts - i bought i should be able to do what i want with it) - no i have to convert it to a format i want (and maybe even that is illegal - don't know!)

3- The price - ok 79p for 1 track is a bit much but £7.99 for an album is a ripoff considering what costs are involved for the suppliers!

I will definatly not be buying tracks again online!!

Cheers for the advice on what to do to convert. I will use the hymn command line tool

[Unregistered]

I just installed iopener!

Why does it ask me for my itunes username and password!

Is this a dodgey program so the developer can use my account and credit card info to d/l more tunes?

[semysig]

Wrong. It will create a lossy copy of the original lossy (just like going from lossy to lossy would).

A lossless codec will produce a file generally .4 to .6 times the size of the original wav file assuming they are the same frequency and number of channels, etc.

I generally discern differences up to about 240 kbs in mp3, Ogg or mpc. But this really is a matter between your ears, your equipment, your music and your listening environment (listening in my car 192 is fine and I am not sure I could distinguish between 192 and 240 kbs or between 128 and 192 kbs in my car).

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen


Bummer. Thanks, and for the previous reply (I think both were you).
Any idea why? How about going say M4P to WAV to MP3, w/same bitrate and everything? I'd think there's just gotta be a way to preserve quality converting in a digital medium!

Thanks for the experience on the bitrates too.
Glad I asked before I did alot of archiving.

[ChristinaS]

The original WAV file from which the M4P was created is taken as the perfect file. The M4P is somewhat less then perfect, since it is a lossy format. Going from M4P to WAV again will not restore the original WAV file, it creates another one somewhat, lets's say for the sake of argument, equivalent to the M4P. Going from this new WAV to MP3 creates again a less than perfect file with respect to the second WAV file, thus with respect to the M4P and ultimately with respect to the original WAV.

How imperfect all these files are is a matter that you alone can judge. It can range from totally unnoticeable to quite awful.

[xoas]

[/QUOTE]How about going say M4P to WAV to MP3, w/same bitrate and everything? I'd think there's just gotta be a way to preserve quality converting in a digital medium!
[QUOTE]
Transcoding from m4p to wav to mp3 is a direction a lot of people have taken simply for the sake of portability between different environments. But as Christina says, converting an m4p file to another lossy format will result in some loss of audio information. Depending on your settings and the other factors I mentionned previously, this loss may be imperceptable. And the practical advantages in having a more portable file that you can use in more ways may well make the m4p to mp3 conversion a good option despite some loss of audio quality. If disc space is no object then converting m4p to wav to other lossless codec will preserve the quality of the original m4p the best but these files will be larger than the original m4p file.
One point to remember is that all other considerations being equal, any audio file (lossy or lossless) will always be its own best copy.
Another is that a difference that does not make a difference is not a difference. Even if there is a loss of audio quality in converting from mp3 to mp4 or the other way around, if you cannot tell a difference then it maybe it shouldn't be a worry. I am reminded of a song by the duo of Flanders and Swann called "High Fidelity", which dealt with the fascination of the then-new stereo sound. One verse in particular is relevent here:
"High Fid-el-ity,
Hi-Fi's the thing for me.
All the highest notes
neither sharp nor flat.
The ear can't hear
as high as that.
Still I ought to please
any passing bat
with my high fidelity!"

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[semysig]

How about going say M4P to WAV to MP3, w/same bitrate and everything? I'd think there's just gotta be a way to preserve quality converting in a digital medium!

Transcoding from m4p to wav to mp3 is a direction a lot of people have taken simply for the sake of portability between different environments. But as Christina says, converting an m4p file to another lossy format will result in some loss of audio information. Depending on your settings and the other factors I mentionned previously, this loss may be imperceptable. And the practical advantages in having a more portable file that you can use in more ways may well make the m4p to mp3 conversion a good option despite some loss of audio quality. If disc space is no object then converting m4p to wav to other lossless codec will preserve the quality of the original m4p the best but these files will be larger than the original m4p file.
One point to remember is that all other considerations being equal, any audio file (lossy or lossless) will always be its own best copy.
Another is that a difference that does not make a difference is not a difference. Even if there is a loss of audio quality in converting from mp3 to mp4 or the other way around, if you cannot tell a difference then it maybe it shouldn't be a worry. I am reminded of a song by the duo of Flanders and Swann called "High Fidelity", which dealt with the fascination of the then-new stereo sound. One verse in particular is relevent here:
"High Fid-el-ity,
Hi-Fi's the thing for me.
All the highest notes
neither sharp nor flat.
The ear can't hear
as high as that.
Still I ought to please
any passing bat
with my high fidelity!"

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

Heh, hadn't heard that one before.
I've heard some really really equip. though, and on that you can "tell" but whether it really increases your enjoyment of the music that much is another story :)
That said, I used to have really great system, and on it with a fav U2 song, it could almost bring tears to your eyes it was so perfect!
On the other hand, crappy recordings/quality sound WORSE on good systems than on crappy ones!

Anyway, I digress. That was great info, this turned out to be a really good thread. Makes sense to with the explaination there. Thanks.
I can see how the brute force way of burn to CD, then re-encode to MP3 makes loss then.
Sounds like the best compromise if you've got the space is MP3/4 to WAV to Flac (or other lossless, not wav because lossless saves some).
I'm assuming that even a lossy to other lossy converter program is using an intermediary temp WAV file? Guess it wouldn't matter for quality though if I'm getting the concept right.

Now if I can just break the stupid copy protection crap without having to have iTunes installed, be one of the 5 computers it's been played on, and then use Hymn. So far, no other way than that except the burn to CD method?
Hmm, making me think here though: does the original file record internally somehow every time it's copied? Otherwise, you could play the 1st copy in the chain on an infinite # of computers/devices if you got it from the original computer.
Then if that file isn't played, but sent to another (i.e. Kazaa) does it still think it's #2 copy? If not, it'd have to alter the file every copy. So, no CRC check possible. I dunno how the stupid thing really works to preserve corporate greed that way though, unless that's not how it works.
Just makes it a pain for legitimate users, but no prob. for pirating.
Hmm, kinda reminds me of the stupid security gate on my apt. complex!
Anybody who wants in gets in, unless you live here and you're in a hurry and forgot your stupid remote.

[xoas]

On the other hand, crappy recordings/quality sound WORSE on good systems than on crappy ones!
I fully agree.

Sounds like the best compromise if you've got the space is MP3/4 to WAV to Flac (or other lossless, not wav because lossless saves some).
I do not understand where this is true. The original mp3 or mp4 will be smaller and the Flac or other lossless file won't be any better.

[QUOTE]Now if I can just break the stupid copy protection crap without having to have iTunes installed, be one of the 5 computers it's been played on, and then use Hymn. So far, no other way than that except the burn to CD method?[QUOTE]
There are at least two other programs that will do the same as Hymn. I don't know if either is any better for your purposes than Hymn. These are iOpener (available from the same site as Hymn) and iFreesoft. For links see: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=5907.

There is also a program called TuneBite which is designed to help record protected files off of your soundcard as you play them into non-protected copies. See this link here: http://www.tunebite.com/

I have no experience with any of these.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Unregistered]

The software at the "Spoon" link DOES NOT handle M4P files

[xoas]

The software at the "Spoon" link DOES NOT handle M4P files

I'm not sure what you are referring to. There is NO program within dBpowerAMP that can read, play or convert m4p files, with the possible exception of the Sveta program which can help you arrange and move tracks to a (Windows-based) iPod.

If you can play m4p files in iTunes you should be able to record the files to a different format from the soundcard (as they play) using dBpowerAMP Music Converter and Auxilary Input.

If any of the above are not true, could you please clarify where the above is incorrect?

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Quasmadio]

I have the same problem but I bought these files at work on my PC and now I wont to play them at home on my Mac. Dose any one know how I can convert them for the mac? Or get a free version of Tost?

Please poet a reply.

q

[Unregistered]

I get an eror when I run HYMN. It is "Couldn't get DRM key for user". The resuting files do not work.

I have iTunes rights to play the .M4P files on my computer.

Exactly where is the DRM file stored on my WIndows XP computer?

[lucky]

All you people talking about real player, command line things, and such, please just do what people are doing about 6 posts up! It works and it's the fastest thing to do and easiest. I'll spell it out for you..again.

Download and extract the HYMN program and it's files to a folder. Then do a search on your computer for m4p files (native itunes files with their DRM protection). *COPY* all of them, then go to the HYMN folder and paste them there (i did a batch of 60 songs named with spaces, hyphens and parenthesis..doesn't matter what the file name is). Then take those freshly pasted m4p files, and drag them to the HYMN.EXE file...you'll see a command prompt (dos style window) and you'll only see a cursor blinking..that means HYMN is converting your M4p files to M4As (unprotected, DRM free songs). When the command prompt window (dos style window) dissappears, hit F5 to refresh the view of that folder (HYMN folder), and you'll see an M4A copy of each M4P song!

If you wish to then convert those to MP3, get your free copy of dbPowerAmp and then convert those M4As to MP3!

it's a freakin joke how easy it is. Links above have the dbpoweramp and hymn download location..i downloaded the latest version of hymn on their page (near the bottom).

[semysig]

I fully agree.

I do not understand where this is true. The original mp3 or mp4 will be smaller and the Flac or other lossless file won't be any better.

[QUOTE]Now if I can just break the stupid copy protection crap without having to have iTunes installed, be one of the 5 computers it's been played on, and then use Hymn. So far, no other way than that except the burn to CD method?[QUOTE]
There are at least two other programs that will do the same as Hymn. I don't know if either is any better for your purposes than Hymn. These are iOpener (available from the same site as Hymn) and iFreesoft. For links see: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=5907.

There is also a program called TuneBite which is designed to help record protected files off of your soundcard as you play them into non-protected copies. See this link here: http://www.tunebite.com/

I have no experience with any of these.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

I meant that it seemed the best way to get it out of damn copy protected M4P without quality loss. However, I failed to consider that going from M4P to M4A might not result in any loss if it's really the same format/algorithm and just using Hymn or other only removes the protection, not really altering or re-encoding anything.
Should have thought of that.. if that's right. Is it?

Thanks for the links to the other 3 progs, will have to try them and see if they work w/o iTunes and being on the originating computer.

Thanks :)

[Outlier]

You guys are making it way too complicated. Here's the simplest way to listen to your iTunes music on your pocket pc and/or convert to any format without buying any outside software or wasting a CD.

Open your Sound Recorder program which comes with Windows XP. Locate it at Start -> All Programs -> Accessories -> Entertainment. Or simply do a Windows search for "Sound Recorder".

Start up iTunes and the Sound Recorder program. Also, open the Windows Volume Mixer Control by double-clicking the speaker icon in the system tray.

In the Mixer, click "Options" - "Properties"

Select the "Recording" radio button, then OK.

You should see a number of sliders with checkboxes at the bottom labeled "Select".

Make sure the Microphone is selected. Here is the only outside piece of equipment you'll need which you may already have lying around somewhere. It's the standard audio jack with 2 males at each ends (RadioShack for less than a few bucks). Plug one end into your Line Out (where your speaker is attached) and plug the other end into the microphone. As you can see, you're basically going to be recording what comes out of your speaker directly into the microphone without loss of noticeable sound quality. This method is like sticking a microphone right at your speaker but the connection is direct so you don't lose the sound quality.

Close the Mixer.

Now, go to your Sound Recorder program and start recording. Then, switch to iTunes and start playing whatever you want to record. When the song stops, stop your sound recorder. Now you can save it as whatever you want....without wasting a CD!!!!

Be sure to monitor your recording. You may need to adjust the recording level to get a good quality recording. I usually do a sample run through by skipping the song around in iTunes and checking the recording level before I actually record the whole song. On my computer, I have these 2 Microphone Boost options which I played around with to get rid of a background "hiss". In the end, the song turned out perfectly!

[Outlier]

I just discovered that the Windows Sound Recorder only lets you record 1 minute, which probably wouldn't be useful if you're recording a song. So I may end up purchasing sound recorder software. I downloaded a trial and it seems alot of sound recorder software out there allow you to record sounds coming directly out of your sound card (without the need for audio jacks and plugging into the microphone jack). This seems much more convenient than the method I just outlined earlier. And there are options to control the quality and the format which you want. The price? They seem to range between $20 to $30 but I think I may purchase just to get the listening pleasure of my iTunes music on my pocket pc.

[nickname]

Guys,

I read that Hymn doesn't work with the newest itunes version so I didn't bother installing.
Even more worrying that Hymn leaves the Apple ID!!!
It's intentional, so that you can be tracked down if you share the file on a P2P platform. I don't use P2P, but I share my mp3s with friends that do. I don't wanna be tracked down, because a friend of a friend of a friend who received my file shares it on Kazaa with my ID in it! Neither am I gonna divide up the mp3s into with and w/o my ID folders to keep track.

Somebody mentioned the security issue earlier. Can't this Hymn guy or any other smart programmer just pretend to have written such a cool program and spy you out for real? Maybe the program keeps records of all passwords and logins you type into your browser. Maybe it doesn't, I guess that's a general problem. Does anybody know more about how risky such programs are and what they can and cannot do?

Finally: Any new ways to convert m4p to mp3 without data loss by recording or wasting a disc? Preferably a program that just deletes DRM and ID anc converts to mp3. The often suggested dBpowerAmp supposedly requires purchase after 30 days to use the mp3 function!

Thanks for any useful [!] comments

[ChristinaS]

You may check this out in the FAQ: http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=6258

And no, I'm not aware of Hymn using any spyware methods.

And dBpowerAMP itself does not require registration but continued use of Powerpack and thus mp3 codec support does.

[xoas]

Somebody mentioned the security issue earlier. Can't this Hymn guy or any other smart programmer just pretend to have written such a cool program and spy you out for real? Maybe the program keeps records of all passwords and logins you type into your browser. Maybe it doesn't, I guess that's a general problem. Does anybody know more about how risky such programs are and what they can and cannot do?

Yes, there is some element of risk always. Just like buying things over the internet or shopping at stores, some elements of caution are always warranted. Hymn does have its own site and own forums. Hymn has been around sufficiently long and we have had enough posts about Hymn that if indeed it contained spyware or was being used to hack user accounts and passwords I feel sure we would have heard about it by now.
But if you want to be paranoid, you could imagine either an extraordinarily devious hacker or you could worry that Apple might institute measures to insert worms or viruses into systems using Hymn and/or iOpener, as the RIAA has been rumored to have done with relation to some p2p programs. On the other hand, these programs may need to access user id information because it is needed to break the DRM measures and/or as a sign of "good faith" to encourage "responsible" conversions as opposed to those who would use the program to make widespread distribution of musical files.

Right now Hymn and iOpener are the only programs we are aware of that are available to remove digital rights manageemnt measures from m4p files. Another program with that ability, iFreesoft, is not currently available. I am not sure what has happened to it or if we will see it again.

dBpowerAMP cannot delete DRM except by recording tracks through auxilary input if you can play them. I very much doubt that you will experience significant loss of audio quality either through recording tracks as they play or through burning them to cd and re-ripping them. You could use a cd-rw for this process, assuming you have a burner that can burn to cd rw, to avoid wasting a disc.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Merlin1935]

You can avoid wasting a CD by using a CD-RW. I agree that I paid for the music I should be able to do as I please as long as I do not resell the copies.

[iTunesIsEvil]

Hey... While Hymn does not remove your AppleID it is still a good program, I would suggest it. I guess if youre worried about your friends sharing music on P2P, you shouldnt give your music to them man... I don't personally have a problem with you or I sharing music w/ friends, but just ask them to not put it on Kazaa or whatever.

Also, about the easiest way to find out if Hymn were using some SpyWare, is to look at the source code that you can actualy compile from. Ive looked at it, and its perfectly fine. As is DeDRMS and FairKeys.

If you would like something slightly more eye-friendly (hymn is a CLI) try this: iRevolt an Apple DRM Scheme Removal App. (http://www.gk-soft.net/code/csharp/iRevolt/iRevolt.zip)
It uses the actual DeDRMS and FairKeys code written by Jon Lech Johannson (DVD Jon). If you would like, try it, if not thats cool too. (Note that this doesn't remove your AppleID either.)

Edit:
For some reason, I cannot for the life of me remember to start posting my source along w/ my app. So:
Source: C# Files Only (http://www.gk-soft.net/code/csharp/iRevolt/irevsrc.zip)
Source: Entrie VS .NET 03 Project Folder (Minus the Bin and Obj Folders) (http://www.gk-soft.net/code/csharp/iRevolt/irevsrcfull.zip)

Also, if you would rather learn how to remove the DRM encryption yourself (this way you can get rid of your AppleID if you would like) you can read a description of what the DRM is and how it is removed here. (http://www.asleep.net/blog/Daeken/2004/08/25/316/)

[iTunesIsEvil]

D'oh... should have just "edited" the last post... :cool:

I was going to put a converter in my iRevolt application. I know I want to be able to let people go to mp3, but what might some other formats you want to go to be? Give as much detail as you can, if you would like. Thanks everyone/anyone.

[rob2718]

I can't get Hymn or iOpener to work. Hymn says it can't get the DRM key and iOpener seems to have the same problem. I'm guessing maybe these programs have a problem with my boot drive being E: instead of C: I can't think of anything else.

[xoas]

Rob-
You might try this app here:
http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showpost.php?p=29769&postcount=80

Perhaps the hymn site might be able to help you get Hymn and/or iOpener to work for you (www.hymn-project.org).

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[xoas]

Just learned that WinAmp has an m4p input plugin here:
http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=137828

There is a theoretical possibility that with this plug-in, the dBpowerAMP WInAmp Input decoder codec and proper installation, this plugin could be used for converting m4p with dMC or playing m4p on dAP. If anyone has experience or does try out this possibility, please let us know.

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[Spoon]

Has anyone tried it on protected files? I doubt winamp would publically list a protection beater.

[iTunesIsEvil]

Has anyone tried it on protected files? I doubt winamp would publically list a protection beater.

Hallo Spoon,
I just tried it with 3 different iTMS protected files (my computer is authorized and i have iTunes installed, though it isnt running while i try and play the songs in Winamp) and nothing happens. :thumbdown

For now, to me, it doesn't look like this works. If someone manages to make it work, let me/everyone here know how you managed it though...

[thomascameron]

If you would like something slightly more eye-friendly (hymn is a CLI) try this: iRevolt an Apple DRM Scheme Removal App. (http://www.gk-soft.net/code/csharp/iRevolt/iRevolt.zip)
It uses the actual DeDRMS and FairKeys code written by Jon Lech Johannson (DVD Jon). If you would like, try it, if not thats cool too. (Note that this doesn't remove your AppleID either.)

Hey - this software works to convert from the protected m4p to mp4 files! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Then converting to mp3 with dBpowerAmp Music Converter is a snap...

Many thanks for this. My first iTunes purchase was damned near my last - I was incredibly PO'd that I couldn't use the music for which I'd paid on any platform except the iPod. I understand the marketing behind it, but COME ON! It's my freaking music! I'm not going to post it on the 'Net or anything like that... I just want to be able to play it in my car.

Thanks for an awesome app!

Thomas

[xoas]

Thomas-
Thanks for the feedback.

Thanks also to uTunesisevil for their suggestion and for checking out the WinAmp plug-in and sharing their results.
Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen

[iTunesIsEvil]

Thanks for an awesome app!

Youre very welcome Thomas! Thank you for checking it out and putting some feeback on here! I'm glad to be of some help around here!

Thanks also to uTunesisevil for their suggestion and for checking out the WinAmp plug-in and sharing their results.

Absolutely no problem whatsoever sir, thanks go out to you guys on these forums for helping to spread the word around!

<ShamelessSelfPromo>
Check out my web-page for iRevolt. (http://gk-soft.net/code/index.html) There is some info on the project and links to the application and the source code!
</Shameless Self Promo>

[adaywayne]

How about going say M4P to WAV to MP3, w/same bitrate and everything? I'd think there's just gotta be a way to preserve quality converting in a digital medium!

Transcoding from m4p to wav to mp3 is a direction a lot of people have taken simply for the sake of portability between different environments. But as Christina says, converting an m4p file to another lossy format will result in some loss of audio information. Depending on your settings and the other factors I mentionned previously, this loss may be imperceptable. And the practical advantages in having a more portable file that you can use in more ways may well make the m4p to mp3 conversion a good option despite some loss of audio quality. If disc space is no object then converting m4p to wav to other lossless codec will preserve the quality of the original m4p the best but these files will be larger than the original m4p file.
One point to remember is that all other considerations being equal, any audio file (lossy or lossless) will always be its own best copy.
Another is that a difference that does not make a difference is not a difference. Even if there is a loss of audio quality in converting from mp3 to mp4 or the other way around, if you cannot tell a difference then it maybe it shouldn't be a worry. I am reminded of a song by the duo of Flanders and Swann called "High Fidelity", which dealt with the fascination of the then-new stereo sound. One verse in particular is relevent here:
"High Fid-el-ity,
Hi-Fi's the thing for me.
All the highest notes
neither sharp nor flat.
The ear can't hear
as high as that.
Still I ought to please
any passing bat
with my high fidelity!"

Best wishes,
Bill Mikkelsen


A bit off-topic but I loved Flanders and Swan. To get back on topic, Bill, try
starting with an 8-bit, 22050Hz, mono wave file. Convert it to 16-bit, 44100, stereo and then convert that back to 8-bit, 22050Hz, mono. Now, repeat that process, listeneing to the mono file after each iteration. By the third time you should notice quite a difference. After 6 iterations it will sound horrible, and after 10 iterations it will be virtually unplayable (turn your speakers down first!)

Happy festive season and healthy 2005 to all.
Arnie

[ChristinaS]

How about going say M4P to WAV to MP3, w/same bitrate and everything? I'd think there's just gotta be a way to preserve quality converting in a digital medium!



A bit off-topic but I loved Flanders and Swan. To get back on topic, Bill, try
starting with an 8-bit, 22050Hz, mono wave file. Convert it to 16-bit, 44100, stereo and then convert that back to 8-bit, 22050Hz, mono. Now, repeat that process, listeneing to the mono file after each iteration. By the third time you should notice quite a difference. After 6 iterations it will sound horrible, and after 10 iterations it will be virtually unplayable (turn your speakers down first!)

Happy festive season and healthy 2005 to all.
Arnie

Starting with mono and going to 2-channel stereo is no change at all, except for a second identical track being added (thus the file size doubles).

Going from 8-bit to 16-bit is the bigger change and also from 22KHz to 44.1KHz. In fact 8-bit 22KHz straight to 16-bit 44.1KHz will more than likely result in a distorted audio file, if it doesn't bomb outright. It definitely does this very audibly for very short duration files. 8-bit to 16-bit and keep the frequency fixed will be ok. Thereafter change the frequency and again it will be ok. Mind you, all this is still palying with wav. If you introduce the extra challenge of working with compressed types, there's no telling what kind of result you'll have in the end. Easy does it, one changed parameter at a time for best results.

As for the .m4p being converted to wav first, well, that depends on whether or not you can even break the protection. In that case it appears teh first conversion is to unprotected .mp4 foloowed by whatevr other conevrsions you like (say, to .wav).

[Spoon]

See here for m4p conversion FAQ:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=6258&highlight=mp4+mp3